I think the more dangerous element of all this were the applications that were put in… the mistake was for people to disclose their financial and personal details to Derivex- ugh- i hope there are no implications for those who did that. Obviously, there were some who were so depserate for the latest, biggest thing, that common sense went out the window, and they handed over private details to those who ought not to have them.
Why do you say this is a mistake Kay? You sound like you know something that others dont?
The Privacy Act still applies?
What do you believe Derivex will do with this info?
Simon Macks
Finance Broker
[email protected]
0425 228 985Comments may not be relevant to individual circumstances. If you intend making any investment, financial or taxation decision you should consult a professional adviser.
Simon,
I do not know anything others don’t… all I am saying is i would not be giving over my financial details to every Tom, Dick and Harry, and I think some people involved in Derivex were very strange and unprofessional in the way they conducted themselves on here, Somersoft, and other forums (pretty much the olny places that Derivex were promoted, weirdly…) I didn’t see anything trustworthy about Derivex, and yet people were called naysayers when they questioned the whole thing!
Our financial details are incredibly private, i think, and I wouldn’t have passed them onto Derivex- i am not sure they deserved the privilege.
Having said that, Simon- i know you were involved in Derivex, and you and I had discussed investing and my own finances some time before that in a private capacity. It’s not you I am concerned about here- it’s that i feel the company and product was dodge.
kay henry
Thanks Kay for the kind words,
I am glad you understand the difference between what we feel and what we know. I “feel” that there are many who don’t [biggrin].
If anyone is concerned about any private info they may have given to Derivex they should ask for it and any copies to be returned. If they believe that Derivex are misusing their info they should contact the relevant authorities.
Having dealt with Derivex and getting to know the people involved I would like to reassure anyone who feels concerned that I found the CEO to be a man of integrity and that was the main criterion he used to select his agents. He was very concerned about the ratbags in the broking industry.
All the best,
Simon Macks
Finance Broker
[email protected]
0425 228 985Comments may not be relevant to individual circumstances. If you intend making any investment, financial or taxation decision you should consult a professional adviser.
Kay, if you would like to say something about me, just say it. There is no need to pussy foot around. I am a big boy and can take your comments on the chin.
As for many of the comments in this thread, they are just speculation. How many more times does it need to be said…
THEY WERE STOPPED DUE TO A MANAGEMENT BREAKDOWN!!!
Kay, before you jump in with the ‘but Rob, you were on the management team’ rubbish that you seem to want to talk about, anyone involved with the company can verify that I had no control over the areas that broke down but I did battle to try and have them sorted out, as did a few others, without success. That is why I, and others, left. We could not see it progressing under the control of their management at the time.
If people do not take my word that ASIC had nothing to do with this, why don’t you ask ASIC. Although they cannot divulge private information relating to an ongoing investigation, I think they will tell you that they made no orders or otherwis regarding Derivex ceasing to operate. They are still investigating which many speculators here should look at closely. They are holding off on making a decision until they have ALL the information.
By the way Kay, I wondered how long it would be before you had a few digs. I thought you started this thread (which is supposed to be taboo especially for an ‘impartial’ moderator) for another reason.
One last thing Kay, what does my ‘behaviour’ have to do with my knowledge or my ability to do the work I choose to do? Are you doubting those now?
Time to LOCK it up I think!!!
The Mortgage Adviser
http://www.themortgageadviser.com.au
[email protected]
Essential LinksWhy should the thread be locked ? I thyink it’s important information seeing the D were being advertised all over this forum by members. It serves as a good warning to people next time someone floats another hairbrained idea that has no realworld experience to back up their claims.
personally I find the hype that was generated over Interest Free Home Loans on a par with property investment gurus spruiking their “secrets”. Luckily in this case they shut up shop before too many people lost money.
Actually, did anyone lose their Loan Application Fee ?
Management breakdown? I don’t doubt it, but I would have thought giving money away for free would put a bit of strain on any business model regardless the management.
Assuming they weren’t giving money away for free (ie the borrower in some form or another repayed more than they borrowed) I agree there could have been substantially improved dissemination of specifics to the public as basic logic says if you hand out $100,000 and get back $100,000 after 20 years, you’ve lost money (due to inflation). And no the 5% “conduit” deposit (which is refunded at the end) would not be enough to generate sufficient returns to counteract this. If the 5% deposit could be used to generate money, why not the other 95%? I don’t understand.
The only people that lost actual dollars (not time) were those who signed contracts on new purchases or undertook ‘strategies’ they clearly could not afford prior to receipt of funds.
From what I know, no-one lost their application fee.
The Mortgage Adviser
http://www.themortgageadviser.com.au
[email protected]
Essential LinksNoone has ever suggested I am impartial. Not Steve, not anyone, and I am entitled to make posts on here about any matter, as is any other member or Moderator. I would hardly be bothered being a Mod on here if I thought that would force me into an ideological labotomy.
Rob, if it’s fine for you to make many posts about the Investor’s club, and to liken yourself to Jenman… then surely, you can accept that people can make posts about Derivex- shegodfather (as my old aunt used to say).
I thought the closure of hte derivex site was significant. But asking for this thread to be closed down- when you scream about harsh moderation if your own threads are closed down).. well, if peopple lose interest in the thread, no doubt it will close itself organically.
And yes, I think anyone representing a company who has a hissyfit, is behaving inappropriately. I think anyone who says they will not launch a product because people have questioned the product- i think that is strange and unprofessional behaviour- but i’ve always thought that – professional behaviour will always provide a better reputation than will tantrums.
But if you critique other companies, then I imagine you would understand if people critique Derivex. As a policy analyst, it makes perfect sense to me to critique stuff, and to have my own thoughts and words critiqued.
kay henry
Originally posted by surreyhughes19905:I don’t understand.
EXACTLY!!!
So why comment negatively on something you state you do not understand????
Are you just following the flock?
The Mortgage Adviser
http://www.themortgageadviser.com.au
[email protected]
Essential Links[biggrin] Following the flock?
Yeah, the flock I’m following is called rational economics and it exists in the real world where money has value.
The simple logic of the loan doesn’t make sense. Simple logic is that they hand over $$$ and that’s all you pay back over 20 years. As stated that will inevitably lead to a net loss. That’s mathematics, the same type that allows me to count from 1 to 10, the same type used to describe everything in the universe. I will comment on things I don’t understand because of all the things I do understand. If you told me the sky was green and failed to provide a definition of green that would effectively equal blue I would not understand but still comment that you have made a judgement (or communication) error.
IFHL are a perpetual energy device.
Can people please use more reason and less emotion here.
Baloo writes:
“secrets”. Luckily in this case they shut up shop before too many people lost money.
Actually, did anyone lose their Loan Application Fee ?
His second sentence actually credits the fact that his first had no basis – simply something he made up.
If this gets emotional and abusive then it will be locked.
Simon Macks
Finance Broker
[email protected]
0425 228 985Comments may not be relevant to individual circumstances. If you intend making any investment, financial or taxation decision you should consult a professional adviser.
Originally posted by surreyhughes19905:[biggrin]If you told me the sky was green and failed to provide a definition of green that would effectively equal blue
Actually, the sky is Grey. It only appears blue due to the reflection off the vast ocean surfaces of the world.
As your belief that the sky is blue is incorrect, so to is your simple mathematics. There is a lot that goes on behind the scenes that you do not know about. The money lent out is only a small portion of the funds raised.
I am not even going to try and explain the concept to you.
The Mortgage Adviser
http://www.themortgageadviser.com.au
[email protected]
Essential LinksOriginally posted by kay henry:But if you critique other companies, then I imagine you would understand if people critique Derivex. As a policy analyst, it makes perfect sense to me to critique stuff, and to have my own thoughts and words critiqued.
Great answer!!!
I am not concerned about the critique of Derivex as I will join you on that myself but I will defend the ‘idea’ behind it. I took offence as I got the impression you were providing critique directed at me.
I freely admit that I do not act professionally on websites as I find many of those posting to be way too sensitive and have an impailed object that needs removing in many cases. There is also a lot of misinterpretation going on that leads to unnecessary arguments hence I believe in asking straight up which I have done to you.
You are right about me getting angry that my posts were being deleted or threads locked but this was in the past. I have realised that no matter what I do, censorship is rife in internet forums especially when a mods feelings are hurt.
As for being impartial, I think you need to look up the definition of the word moderator or relinquish your moderator status to post freely.
I am happy to discuss Derivex all day as long as it does not get personal.
The Mortgage Adviser
http://www.themortgageadviser.com.au
[email protected]
Essential LinksRob said:
“As for being impartial, I think you need to look up the definition of the word moderator or relinquish your moderator status to post freely.”
Rob, when Steve asked me to moderate, he asked me to do two things: to remove advertising and to remove posts or threads that I found to be offensive. That’s it- that’s the entire job description.
This place can become mighty boring if it is a bunch of Stepford wives. the moderators all have opinions- so what? who doesn’t? forget the red stars and just focus on what people say.
My interest is in real estate- many things about it. And I have opinions, and I express them- relinquish my stars because I have an opinion? Don’t be silly, Rob. how is that going to assist in removing ads, etc. I have no “power” issues about being a Mod on here- I don’t look at who has stars and who doesn’t- it’s not really an issue.
kay henry
Originally posted by Mortgage Hunter:
His second sentence actually credits the fact that his first had no basis – simply something he made up.If this gets emotional and abusive then it will be locked.
Point taken. But I didn’t state that people had lost money at this point in time.
It would be nice if you showed the same consistency of pointing out borderline accusations by other posters as well.
Hi,
Let’s be sure to differentiate fact from opinion here.
FACT: The website is down.
OPINION: Why it happened
The victims here were those who went ahead with purchases on the basis that they could get the loan. To the extent that representations were made, I’m sure legal advice will be sought.
BTW, moderators of this are, of course, fully entitled to express their independent thoughts.
I thought this was a good post (no interest in no interest… lol). Let’s just keep the discussion away from personalities and focus on issues.
Cheers,
Steve McKnight
**********
Remember that success comes from doing things differently.
**********Steve McKnight | PropertyInvesting.com Pty Ltd | CEO
https://www.propertyinvesting.comSuccess comes from doing things differently
Originally posted by kay henry:Rob, when Steve asked me to moderate, he asked me to do two things: to remove advertising and to remove posts or threads that I found to be offensive. That’s it- that’s the entire job description.
What if someone considers your post offensive though? Do you not agree you are restricted in how you can post? It all comes down to interpretation by the person reading the post as is clearly evident in many forums.
This place can become mighty boring if it is a bunch of Stepford wives. the moderators all have opinions- so what? who doesn’t? forget the red stars and just focus on what people say.Agree totally. I just find it difficult to respond to mods who make comments I find a bit annoying as I know what the result is.
The Mortgage Adviser
http://www.themortgageadviser.com.au
[email protected]
Essential LinksAh, I’m told the sky is grey and appears blue. Well there you go, a definition that fits the facts. Logic is preserved.
As much or as little can go on behind the scenes and giving money away for free is still lost money. Of course it is possible there is some legislation that allows them to make money only if they give it away as a loan, but why not use the money themselves to buy property through another company by loaning it to themselves and reap double rewards? I think no. I think the interest free nature would involve only a technical definition of “interest free” and the money would need to be returning more than was going out or the business would fail. And it did.
Surrey, I can assure you there is no shortage of willing participants to undertake this venture. The problem is accessing all the information and structures to support it. If the structure works as it was described to me, then this will happen. Just give everyone time to put the pieces together and it should all resurface in the near future. There is only one piece of the puzzle that is missing but it is the most important piece!
The Mortgage Adviser
http://www.themortgageadviser.com.au
[email protected]
Essential LinksOriginally posted by baloo:Originally posted by Mortgage Hunter:
His second sentence actually credits the fact that his first had no basis – simply something he made up.If this gets emotional and abusive then it will be locked.
Point taken. But I didn’t state that people had lost money at this point in time.
It would be nice if you showed the same consistency of pointing out borderline accusations by other posters as well.
Baloo,
I cannot keep abreast of every post. I also can only see them through my eyes.
If there is something you feel is innapropriate please email me with a link and tell me what action you feel warranted and I will take it from there.
Kindest regards,
Simon Macks
Finance Broker
[email protected]
0425 228 985Comments may not be relevant to individual circumstances. If you intend making any investment, financial or taxation decision you should consult a professional adviser.
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