As many people here are aware, I have been winding down my business and looking for a role within a large financial institution. I thought you may be interested to hear about the problems I have been facing dealing with recruitment agencies.
I am seeking a management level position in a LARGE institution and NOT a mortgage broker position. This has been made very clear throughout my extensive CV. Unfortunately, I have not completed a degree but have completed numerous other qualifications.
To date, I have been offered numerous roles within small organisations or as a mortgage broker in small and large organisations. Income levels have ranged from 50k to 130k. I have declined all of these.
Even though I am not driven by income, unfortunately, if I was to undertake a mortgage lending sales role, it would be a reduction in my earning capacity as working for a company pays less than working for myself. I would rather concentrate on my own company if this was what I wanted to do.
I believe that I am more than qualified to undertake any residential mortgage related BDM role or management role which would be evident if organisations interviewed an applicant instead of relying on recruitment agencies who only go by number of years doing something or looking for a degree in anything. Someone doing something incorrectly for ten years is far less valuable than someone doing the right thing for two years.
When I was in real estate a few years back, I learnt two very important lessons. The first, which I never believed to be true beforehand, was – You can NOT teach an old dog new tricks! The second, which I have always believed, was – A piece of paper is only as good as the person holding it!
I have come up against colleagues with numerous degrees in various related and unrelated fields and yet still have no idea what they are doing. It made me cringe when they were getting paid huge dollars or sitting in high positions in an organisation yet asking me for advice or information.
This industry is full of dinosaurs and will never come out of the dark ages if recruitment agencies persist in poaching staff from other lenders and continually recycling the same old problems (staff) through different lenders instead of looking to new talent and new ideas or promoting from within.
Anyway, I have to say it is pretty disappointing and disheartening and may result in my moving to a completely different field. The recruitment process has become extremely slow and cumbersome and needs a serious overhaul. It has certainly changed a lot since the last time I applied for a job.
Where are the good ’employment’ agencies?
Robert Bou-Hamdan
Mortgage AdviserRob,
Did you see the ad in SMH on Sat for a BDM position (sounds almost sexual!) with Bank West?
Terryw
Discover Home Loans
Mortgage Broker
North Sydney
[email protected]Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
http://www.Structuring.com.au
Email MeLawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au
I have restricted my search to online. Maybe that is the problem. Thanks for the info though.
Robert Bou-Hamdan
Mortgage AdviserRobert,
Perhaps you might think of getting a degree.
kay henry
Robert
I was just having a saunter around the property sites, [in between writing assignments], found this thread… do you know what I reckon… head south a bit..”Harness Racing Victoria” A really progressive industry, fantastic people from all walks of life, [in my opinion you don’t necessarily need to have had a hand on a horse… there are enough of those folk already]… you can be passionate about an industry and your job but not need to live eat breath it… There must be some diabetics in the lollies and cake industry right? It is structured Executive/Marketing/Finance and Administration/Moonee Valley/Integrity/Planning and Development. Within all that there are the Manangers/Assist. Managers so on …
Vic. is the place to be, no point being the arm or leg, go to the heart of the matter. Did you ever hear of Peter V’Landy’s former head of NSW Harness Racing, controversial guy to many, but sold/worked his product well.
John Anderson is the guy that is CEO at HRV http://www.harness.org.au
Did you know that racing is the third biggest industry in Australia..[next to mining/sheep]…In my humble opinion, the thoroughbred industry … even though it is huge, is like the beautiful big mansion, sooner or later there are too many rooms to utilise, costs a fortune to upkeep and not that many who can afford to be in it….[the industry]…. The greyhounds, doing great, has a market, but in the end… well it ain’t horses!! limited fan base. Harness Racing has the greatest potential for growth/ has challenges to reach that growth, it is the nice 3 b/r house in inner suburbs and rural cities [equivalent],…. much more people can afford it because it has wider financial and family hands on appeal…From what we have heard of you Robert, the fire and passion is there… HRV and Sire of Melton are in the throws of working at establishing/developing a multi million dollar harness racing centre…at Melton… all very exciting… seriously if you have a background in real estate/finance… couldn’t that be used in virtually any industry? Anyway, see what you think, Regards from Pam and Red.Recruitment Agencies will only put forward candidates they feel will be suitable for the job. If they start putting forward any lame duck, their clients, the hiring firms, will very quickly get annoyed with them and stop doing business. I can only guess that they are unwilling to risk it with you.
Most Agencies employ extensive background checks on candidates. Google is an agencies friend and can often reveal interesting information about a client. It’s amazing how many times we’ve rejected people purely on their activity on the Net.
Word of Advice. If you have a website detailing how to survive in the workplace without doing any work, no matter how satirical that site may be, don’t go looking for work in the IT field without removing all references to yourself first !
Kay,
I have not found a degree that I enjoy enough yet.
Thanks Curtis but I think I will stay away from racing. It would be a bad move for me.
Baloo, what the hell are you going on about???? What website that details how to survive in the workplace without doing any work??? I am a workaholic! By the way, I am not looking for work in IT.
As for being checked out, I had many people and agencies do extensive checks and searches looking for dirt about me when I was with Derivex. Nothing came out so I guess that says something hey?
I have nothing to hide. Would love to see this site you are talking about though.
Robert Bou-Hamdan
Mortgage AdviserRob dear, not everything I write is directed at you personally.
My post was generic in nature, offering some insights into how agencies work and how an example of someone we rejected due to their personal website.
Sorry Baloo… totally misinterpreted that post.
I have found the most common reason being that the agencies have been given a list of requirements and on that list is a degree. It doesn’t even stipulate what kind of degree.
I can’t see how a non-industry person can assess suitability, excluding a checklist, without knowing what they are looking at.
Robert Bou-Hamdan
Mortgage AdviserRob,
You may think the people with degrees you see are a bit moronic, but reality is, in most (professional) or emerging white collar fields I know of, a person with a degree will be employed over a person without a degree any day. Right now, you’re unemployed, and need a job. I reckon even if you enrolled in a degree, it would get you those positions you want.
Re recruitment agents- well, I agree with you that they probably don’t help out the average joe. It’s a bit like relying on a buyer’s agent or a spotter to get a property- I reckon something as personal as a job is one’s own to get- I can;t imagine someone taking that process out of my hands. RA’s are salespeople really- probably working in a call centre.
Now- a headhunter- that’s what you want following you around. Two of my friends just got headhunted- got recommended for jobs heading up corporations- just got calls and emails at work asking them to jump ship because they had been recommended! that’s the go- being identified in whatever field as a “must have” for an organisation.
Now that you’ve let the PI Forum know you need a job, I am sure there’ll be someone around who can help you out, Robert.
kay henry
Kay,
I don’t NEED a job and I am NOT unemployed. I am self-employed and have been head-hunted extensively but for the wrong field. I am not interested in writing loans any more. It is a personal choice thing.
Regarding enrolling in Uni, I already have through OUA. I am about to start a double degree in Management / Marketing. It will be TOTALLY BORING but seems to be required for future advancement.
I don’t think everyone with a degree is moronic at all. I just find that, in my industry, it is fairly common. This industry changes extensively each year and not many people keep up to date. I have kept up to date and it has benefited me extensively. Now I just need to let those people who need to know find out what I have learnt.
I know you have a degree or three and I had no intention of offending you. My frustration is with unqualified and non-industry people judging my suitability for a role they do not understand.
I also detest how you are never told who the job is with until you get there. What a waste of time! Do they think you will take the job because you are there?
Robert Bou-Hamdan
Mortgage AdviserYeah, recruitment agencies are only any good for candidates who “tick all the boxes”. Thing is, they receive so many applications, they have to screen them quickly and efficiently. It’s easiest to immediately cull the 80% that don’t meet ‘requirements’ (as per what their client company has requested) straight up, and start narrowing down from there.
Life is cruel.
However, if you are looking for a management position in a large company, companies often source from within the company or their circle of colleagues before ever approaching an agent. And before an agent advertises the position, they will often have a think about who they already have in their books that meets the criteria. So, unless you’re in the inner loop, it will always be harder.
Maybe you should have a think about who you would like to work for, and approach their HR department directly before they even advertise a position? Establish how much you want to work specifically with their organisation, and keep touching base every couple of months until something comes up. That way you are in the inner loop.
Good luck.
Great advice Luci. Unfortunately, the organisations I am targeting all seem to outsource their HR. The ones that still have them are not hiring in the areas I am seeking.
You are right about the inner circle. The poaching and recycling of employees is huge in finance.
Take BDM roles for example… there is a massive shortage yet the same ones keep popping up with different lenders. Ask any brokers what they think of their BDMs and you will be lucky to get a 10% favourable response.
Robert Bou-Hamdan
Mortgage AdviserHi Rob
Got your email, fowarding on tomorrow.
I hope I’m in the 10% favourable BDM’s, anyway my brokers love me. How many BDM’s will answer their phone late at night and help a broker who’s with a client with a scenario. I often receive scenario’s by email out of business hours and will answer them straight away.
I reckon BDM’s need to have been a broker, so they can understand what a broker’s business is about and a brokers needs.
Service, contactability, fast approvals and fast turnaround times are the key for a BDm to be successful.
There are still plenty of jobs up here, if you wanted to move
State Manager
Wholesale Mortgage Lender that deals only with brokers.
20 years in Finance Industry
I might consider Perth. Have done the Gold Coast in a past life!!!
Robert Bou-Hamdan
Mortgage AdviserI have a friend who is a broker in perth. She reckons it’s a nightmare over there for licensing.
State Manager
Wholesale Mortgage Lender that deals only with brokers.
20 years in Finance Industry
I already comply with everything except the residency requirement. Luckily, a BDM or other management role does not need licensing. Only those offering products direct to the public have to hold a license.
Robert Bou-Hamdan
Mortgage AdviserRobert,
If you’d prefer not to have to do a six year part time Bachelor degree there may be another option open to you.
I’m not sure of your age/experience but I’d imagine you would qualify on both counts for entry to an MBA program even without the undergrad. Takes 2 years part time, and even though they are becoming quite common, still hold some weight.
Send me a message offline if you want more details.
Everyone will soon be doing DBA’s to stand out from the Masters.
I have been looking for a new position recently. I have been with the same company for over 10 yrs and feel like a change. I am just over 40 and cannot get over how young the recruiters are.
And most of them are from the UK. I can’t see how it is a viable way of securing the right staff.
Robert Bou-Hamdan
Mortgage Adviser
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