Hi Folks
Re suburbs, I prefer Peter Spann’s more scientific approach than the more anecdotal stuff above (it’s fun, though).
Try reading the chapter on Median Rent & Price statistics in Peter Spann’s “How to Build a $10 Million Property Portfolio in 10 Years”. He outlines his 5 year cyclical approach for deciding which specific suburbs to buy in a particular city, at this precise moment in time.
Great stuff. Also go to http://www.matusik.com.au
for his Quarterly Reports.He’s tipping Coolum & Marcoola on Qld’s Sunshine Coast as suburbs with a fair bit of rise still left in them. You’d be amazed at how affordable the median house price is in these suburbs, relative to others so close to Noosa.
Cheers
Gregfluffy, on what basis could you possibly say that Campbelltown has a bad rep. Do you live here???? This discussion is really hopeless. As Kay said earlier, she lives in Redfern. Redfern is slowly becoming like Newtown and Paddington. I assure you that in every suburb you have problems, and areas within suburbs that you probably wouldn’t invest. But if you’re a serious investor how can you possibly discount a WHOLE suburb. In Campbelltown there are some excellent opportunities for investment. Ask me, I know! For anyone thats read `0-130 properties….’ remember Steve’s experiences in Ballarat??? Be careful what you discount people.
Re the Redfern discussion… just to clarify my position here. I do NOT want the Block knowcked down… I do NOT want the suburb gentrified and my neighbours unable to afford to live here. I think Frank Sartor’s mob is outrageous, and I believe in Clover Moore’s protection of the area.
I do NOT want Indigenous people forced out of my area for the sake of property “values”. I believe in people before profit.
Just wanted tro make these points in case anyone thought I was taking the bourgeois sartor approach- I’m not. I like the people in the area- it’s diverse and has culture up the wazoo- I chose this suburb to live because of what it represents- inclusion, activism, social justice- real notions of “community” and I have been one of the many thousands of people in the area who actively oppose Sartor’s agenda.
Thanks
kay henry
kay, hope you didn’t take offence to my inclusion of you in my last post. Your motivations for living where you do are non of my business, however its hard not to miss the changes happening in and around Redfern in the last few years. And your right. Sartor and his spikey haired predecessor Clover (can’t stand that woman!) have done a swell job of `cleansing’ the place haven’t they??
Neo- no offence at all
Just didn’t want anyone to think I had different reasons for loving the area than I do Clover has been a great supporter of this area, and I think the new Sydney Council – who also oppose Sartor- will try, within their power, to maintain Indigenous housing.
It will be a terrible shame for Redfern to disappear as we know it. I see the glee that some property investors have when they think of how Redfern might change, and it saddens me. A lot of it smacks of pure racism.
Thanks, neo- it’s all good. [blush2]
kay henry
All the information tabled before NSW parliament has been silent on any compulsory acquisition of properties in the block in Redfern. However the powers of the Redfern-Waterloo authority are wide ranging…they do not need normal local govt consents, don’t need to comply with the Heritage Act and as I understand are able to compulsorily acquire land/houses. The NSW govt sees parts of Redfern as an area for the CBD to grow into-a southern extension of the CBD from Central.
I suspect that a few years into its operation the authority will table a redevelopment plan for the block involving demolition of existing houses.
Ajax
Sydney Morning Herald 29 November 2004
“The State Government has a $5 billion plan to redevelop Redfern and the surrounding suburbs that involves seizing control of Aboriginal housing on the Block and letting private developers take over two-thirds of the area’s public housing estates.
Under the 10-year plan, the Government will tear down the residential towers in Waterloo and privatise $540 million worth of public assets in a bid to double the area’s population to 40,000, create 20,000 new jobs and give the central business district room to expand.
In a major piece of social engineering, 20,000 new private renters and owners will be brought in to balance out the 7000 public housing tenants in the area, many of whom are poor, old and disabled.
The Herald’s investigations team has sighted details of the plans in cabinet documents dated October 2004.
The southerly expansion of the CBD into 340 hectares of Redfern, Eveleigh, Darlington and Waterloo will be overseen by the Redfern-Waterloo Authority, the establishment of which the Premier, Bob Carr, announced last month.
According to the papers, consultants have told the Government, which owns almost one- third of land in the area, that the redevelopment of the notorious Block would increase certain property values by 30 per cent.
“The NSW Government is the largest landholder in the … area. The estimated market value of developments in the area is approximately $5 billion,” the papers say.
“In order to maximise social and economic returns, the Government must be able to offer planning certainty to the market within a strategic planning framework.”
The papers contain masses of comprehensive costings from government departments advising on specific aspects of the project, right down to details on the possible political and legal risks. The papers describe the plan as a “a radical departure” from previous initiatives.
The Government rushed legislation to set up the Redfern-Waterloo Authority through the lower house 10 days ago and, according to the papers, expects the authority will be in place by January 1.
The authority will have powers to override local councils and heritage laws, to grant concessions to private developers, including the $34.5 million makeover of Redfern railway station, and to acquire land compulsorily.
Some of the sites earmarked for sale are Redfern police station, Redfern Public School and the Rachel Forster Hospital site.
Residents who now have only half the open space of other inner-city suburbs will have only a quarter of the space once the population is doubled, the papers reveal. The Government has been advised to provide additional transport to take these overcrowded residents to places like Bondi Beach.
The minister responsible for the authority, Frank Sartor, told Parliament this month he would “consult widely with the community and all levels of government when developing the plan” for the authority.
However, the public is still in the dark.
For instance, the Government has not revealed that the authority will take effective control of the Aboriginal Housing Company, which owns the Block and other homes in the area, and that help to refurbish the Block will come at a price.
According to the papers, the Aboriginal Housing Company, a registered charity, will be required to give the Government a 10-year lease over its land and impose stricter rent agreements. Tenants could be required, for instance, to be drug free. The papers warn that some members of the Aboriginal Housing Company may challenge the plan as “inequitable and oppressive”.
The Government has secretly audited the company and found it is in financial trouble, with debts of more than $1 million.
So sensitive is this audit that the October 2004 papers state it should be withheld from the parliamentary committee that investigated the death of the Redfern Aboriginal teenager Thomas “T. J.” Hickey, which caused riots in the suburb in February.
The papers say that in the absolute worst case, the Redfern-Waterloo Authority could compulsorily buy the Aboriginal Housing Company’s land and “then implement the long-term arrangements on that land for affordable housing for Aboriginal people”.
The papers even include a draft memorandum of understanding to be signed by Mr Carr and the chief executive officer of the Aboriginal Housing Company, Michael Mundine – although it is not known whether he is aware of all the details.
A spokeswoman for Mr Sartor said yesterday that there was no plan. She said a plan would be worked out once the authority was in place.”
Ajax
Posted – 08/05/2005 : 09:26:01
fluffy, on what basis could you possibly say that Campbelltown has a bad rep. Do you live here????Hi Neo,
I have repeated my first post below again as possibly you have misunderstood it.
I grew up in Sydney and below I have listed some area’s I think you may be talking about. For the record though I wish to add that although they didnt quiet have a good name it doesn’t mean you won’t make money, but I certainly understand you wish to be informed about the suburbs that may have a bad reputation (or used to) so here goes….I was just trying to help cashflow out by answering his question. I have not said anywhere to discount the suburbs in fact I say it doesn’t mean you won’t make money. I also state that these suburbs used to have a bad rep, doesn’t mean they do now!
My intention was to help cashflow be informed on what suburbs I know of fit his possible category.
Example: I am currently looking at investing in a suburb which used to have (and to some extent still does have) a poor reputation. I will still probably invest there but at least I am fully informed that the suburb held this reputation.
It is unfortunate that sometimes e-mail is misunderstood and hope this helps clarify my intent.
Cheers
FluffyDitto Lonnie
And there are great tennants there who love to live in the area and who take pride in their homes.
If anyone tries to tell me that Campbelltown does not have a bad reputation, I would say they are smoking too much of the funny green stuff!!!
Everyone I know thinks poorly of Campbelltown. Crime statistics support this. Being required to show identification at a club at night to be issued a ticket to be able to catch a cab home also supports this.
Even with all the negativity, it still has some good investment potential. Most of the growth was as a result of the M5. I personally don’t know where the continued growth in this area will come from but it seems to be bucking the bad rep slowly.
Robert Bou-Hamdan
Mortgage AdviserRobert, usually I like your balanced views but your last post is about 10-15 years behind the times and inaccurate (I for one don’t smoke anything). Whats having to show ID to a taxi driver got to do with the reputation of an area???? I think you’ll find that in terms of affordability regions like Campbelltown are becoming very popular due to the relative ease of getting into the market, particularly for fhb’ers. The reputation that besets the region has changed. You’re probably talking to too many snotty nosed north shore types who think there is a great big void past the cbd!!! Oh you should probably also check your facts as well. Crime in the area has actually decreased over the last couple of years.
I agree with you Lonnie. The suburbs in Brisbane mentioned are worth looking at. That’s where my friend has made the most of his money. There are good tenants out there also, so it is always about due diligence.
Cheers
Hi Neo,
The taxi ID issue is not common to other areas. I think it is a good indication that when taxi drivers won’t take passengers (and they always whinge they don’t make enough money), it is a big problem.
I agree that the bad rep is slowly turning around but it is still pretty bad. The reducing crime rate is a good thing but going from, as an example, 5,000 break and enters to 4,000 break and enters does not compare to an area with 1,000 break and enter. Maybe in about 10-15 more years it will be one of the better suburbs.
As for your North Shore comment, they are pussies! I am an Eastern Suburb Yuppie. Anything past Anzac Parade is calssified as ‘Westie’ to me!
Robert Bou-Hamdan
Mortgage Adviseri must confess. i was born and raised in the east. with a young family had to move out to `greener’ pastures (due to affordability). i used to say to friends coming from the beyond the princess hwy, `wheres your passport??’. i agree that there is a stigma about c’town, but really i have come to like the area and its now very much home. we will be moving back to the east as soon as we can afford it. i think you will see things improve sooner than 10-15 years, but lets see.
My ex-girlfriend came from Campbelltown from a family living in Housing Commissions so I got to know the area pretty well. Some of the things I saw were pretty dis-heartening.
Having said that, take a drive through the South Coogee or South Maroubra / Malabar Housing Commission areas and it is the same thing. Did you know that South Coogee had some of the most expensive houses in the Eastern Suburbs and some of the worst Housing Commission problems?
Every area has its problems. I just like to stir Campbelltown locals!!!
Hey, is there still an over-population problem out there??? I hear the baby bonus saw a spike in teen pregnancies! hehehehe
Robert Bou-Hamdan
Mortgage Adviserlol, i knew you were taking the p***!!!! hey thats ok. i call it `shambletown’ sometimes. my office is in mascot, so i don’t get to see what happens there all the time. you still see the `flannellette-shirt’ brigade, albeit in dwindling numbers, and the odd 13-14 y.o. walking around with baby. but if you see my original post on this topic, i did say that EVERY area has its problems. And you do get little `pockets of resistance’ in every area. My wife came from good old La Perouse, so I recall the problems with Housing Comm in Malabar etc. Slowly but surely though, the Govt is breaking up these ghettos (eg. Airds in Campbelltown) and dispersing them into the broader community. This is the way to go. Eric
Hi Fluffy,
Thank you for your reply.Sorry if I seem to have got you in trouble.I would like a reply like yours from Melbourne.
Regarding Brisbane suburbs of Goonda ,Wacol & Gailes I would not buy there because of their reputations.Just too much trouble.
Regards
CashpoorAs you say, Lonnie, one man’s trash is another man’s treasure. They may not “look good” but they’re situated well.
Alanah[biggrin]
I’m smiling because I’m off to Hawaii tomorrow.
Alanah Hadley
Hi Cashpoor,
No trouble at all, I think I got things clarified. Would like to help you out with Melbourne but I don’t know the area that well. Hopefully someone else can give you a rundown!
Good luck with it all
[biggrin]Cheers
FluffyI might be getting into this good bad suburb discussion a bit late but I will tell my side anyway. Macquarie fields has been mentioned a bit so I will talk about this area because it is where I work in an emergency services capacity so I get to know different parts of this area well. Also what I will say is about Mac’fields but could be applied to any similar area.
Firstly the riots in Macquarie Fields involved a very small part of the suburb and a small part of the housing commission area.
There are parts of Macquarie Fields where I would live as there are in the whole campbelltown area.The housing commission areas are undergoing changes where, eventually, housing commission places wont be put together in one big enclave but will be spread out.
There are areas of Campbelltown and the Macarthur district that are quite “upper Class”. Macquarie Links, Blair Athol, Harrington Park, Glen Alpine to name just a few.
As I alluded to earlier this is an area “under transition”. With the transition of the housing commision areas and the constriction of the M7 Motorway with the development of industrial areas and future land releases in the area the future will very likely be different for this area.
I guess I will finish by saying dont judge a suburb or area soley on the media or other peoples opinions, have a look at the area get to know it. Dont just consider the area now but think about the future (this is where your investment happens)
Due diligence will separtate the good from the bad not rumour and innuendo.That is all for now.
Stay HappyJohn
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