Well, this certainly is an interesting topic.
Ok, I will try to be objective or is that subjective? hmmm.
I am Catholic, I teach at a Catholic school. I have always been a Catholic, and probably always will be.
However, I am very open to thers opinions and I certainly do not shove my beliefs down others throats and many CAtholics I know don’t do that either. If anything, Catholocism is the one faith tha quietly goes about its business without preaching to the masses of infideles…hee hee…
Now, about the whole property thing. Most of the time, the Churches were built early into each suburb or city being developed. They bought the pocket of land they felt would be easiest accessible for their parishioners. This just happens to be some of the most sought out locations many years later. SO they are big holders of property, but they buy into it before the rest of the place it set up.
Now as for rates reduction. The property owned by the Catholic Church in Geraldton, is all used for not-for-profit organisations. St Vinnies, Nursing homes, etc. There was a fuore over rates last year because our council suddenly decided that they would start charging all churches rates.
If they had, so many of the support services in our town would have gon e down the gurgler because of the pressure of rates. Remember, I said ALL churches would have had to pay. That meant ALL not-for-profit service would have been affected.
People jump in the Catholic thing too quickly. Yes there are some excesses in our faith, but you cannot blame the current leaders of our church. A big part of our faith, is in the traditions and rituals that we follow. Vatican City is a little excessive, but I tell you what, if it wasn’t there, it would have been somewhere else.
Anyway, I have tried to articulate what I mean and I hope it comes across.
Cheers
Steph.
p.s. Oh and I don’t see that the religious bits in investing books is that big a deal. it means the person writing the book is proud of their faith and are not afraid to show it. In no way do I interpret it that I have to demonstrate my faith to anyone. NOT THAT I EVER WOULD!!Success is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration.
This is my biggest beef with the issue:
the Cornerstone Christian Community Church as one example. It used its tax-free status to run a chain of pizza parlours in direct competition with other fast food businesses.Seventh-Day Adventists own Sanitarium, which turns over $330 million a year but because it’s a religion, they don’t pay tax,” Ms Ferguson said.there is a car park run tax-free by the Catholic Church in the CBD of Melbourne.The government does not know how much money the Church earns from the car park or how much of that money made actually goes to charity because it does not have to tell them.
Smells like smear to me.
F.[cowboy2]Foundation,
Can you enlighten us to where you get your quotes from?Cheers.
Steph.Success is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration.
Sure Scremin,
That underlined blue word at the top of my last post is the link. The article is from Today Tonight[blink], but the investigation is from BRW.
Cheers, F.[cowboy2]Thanks Foundation.
Interesting article that’s for sure. I wonder how much of it is truth.
Would be interesting to find out for certain the whole kit and caboodle about the businesses…
Steph.
Success is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration.
I’d hazard a guess and think that maybe one of the Directors of the board is about to swap his purple PJ’s and be upgraded to the white ones.
Just imagine the backroom politics and wranglings behind the scenes for the power struggle – it’d be worse than any Govt election…these boys are like the US Supreme Court judges…once they are in they are there for life.
Being chairman of a 200 Billion USD organisation must be a rush…not that money has anything to do with it of course.
foundation Posted – 04/04/2005 : 11:53:26
This is my biggest beef with the issue:the Cornerstone Christian Community Church as one example. It used its tax-free status to run a chain of pizza parlours in direct competition with other fast food businesses.
Seventh-Day Adventists own Sanitarium, which turns over $330 million a year but because it’s a religion, they don’t pay tax,” Ms Ferguson said.
there is a car park run tax-free by the Catholic Church in the CBD of Melbourne.
The government does not know how much money the Church earns from the car park or how much of that money made actually goes to charity because it does not have to tell them.
Smells like smear to me.
F.How else do you propose Charity gets its money? Advertise on TV? Oh no that cost money which they wouldn’t have unless they had business, perhaps they could bleed dry their congregation? Oh, didn’t some-one quote that the congragations are getting smaller because of the publics perception of the ‘Lack’ of worth of the Churches? I guess not! I wish I could work out how to get them (the Churches) money so that they can feed and cloth and councel and support and donate to the needy in their country! If only I knew a way they could fund these things to help the ever increasing need in, not only our country, but internationally too?!?!?
I hope it never happens to you, but the churches do a great many Socially supportive activities that are unfunded buy the general society! If they don’t have to pay taxes then they have that extra little edge to keep a charitable group going.
Not so terrible is it?! I have know churches to take in people, feed them, clothe them and then send them to a another city so that they can live with their family over there! Good thing they had the money, otherwise there might have been another increase in theft/burglaries costing more tax $$ for more police, another ‘tenant’ in Goal living off your taxes, another family in disrepair! But I digress………..you must be right! Sear indeed!
Cheers
C@34Our greatest weakness lies in giving up. The most certain way to succeed is to always try something one more time.
– Thomas Edison…I doubt [edited as a possible breach of religious vilification laws] by the end of the week…[blink]
Dazzling Posted – 04/04/2005 : 15:50:30
I’d hazard a guess and think that maybe one of the Directors of the board is about to swap his purple PJ’s and be upgraded to the white ones.Just imagine the backroom politics and wranglings behind the scenes for the power struggle – it’d be worse than any Govt election…these boys are like the US Supreme Court judges…once they are in they are there for life.
Being chairman of a 200 Billion USD organisation must be a rush…not that money has anything to do with it of course.
I think you’ll find a board of directors controlling the assets and businesses of the Church reporting to the Elders (Boiler room of any Church), where as the Pope and his “PPs’ (purple Pyjamas) are in charge of the Spiritual direction of the Church; two semi-separate things.
PS: sorry Scremin for the PPS comment.[blush2]
Cheers
C@34Our greatest weakness lies in giving up. The most certain way to succeed is to always try something one more time.
– Thomas EdisonOur greatest weakness lies in giving up. The most certain way to succeed is to always try something one more time.Like heroin for example. Or flying without a parachute.
Sorry Calvin, I couldn’t stop myself!
S’OK F.[suave]
Cheers
C@34Our greatest weakness lies in giving up. The most certain way to succeed is to always try something one more time.
– Thomas EdisonMaybe I’m just taking this thread too seriously. But you have to admit that their’s a lot of wealth tied up in religion under the name of a God. Some people even describe it as God’s will! God’s will. Hey, imagine if God ‘DID HAVE A WILL’? …..”And all the oceans, I leave to Barry!”(?)
Cheers,
Gatsby!Gatsby,
you are dead on the mark but the biggest mistake people make is generalising about churches.Yes some of them are very rich and have lots of money, but there are others which are not as rich. Ie. The Geraldton Diocese covers from Geraldton (420km north of Perth) right up to the Kimberley’s up north of WA.
I think it is the biggest diocese in Australia let alone probably the world. I think my point is that the money has to be spread thinly over that area to make sure everyone has access to prayer facilities. Church or at least a hall to pray in. We are not a rich Diocese, but I reckon we have one of the most well travelled Bishops! That’s for sure!
Calvin, no offense taken to remarks. I am not overly Catholic that I take offense to critism or cannot have a laugh. Geez, besides.. it’s the CAtholics that have the wine with their dinner right!!?? Ha ha ha!
That’s my excuse anyway.
Scatch ya!
Steph.Success is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration.
Originally posted by wayneL:
…………..anyway, clicked on your site and spotted this little doosie in FAQ’s:“Is it like Amway, Herbalife or Neways?
No it is not like Amway, Herbalife, Neways…”
It appears that your website is promoting a network marketing business.
So it would appear that it is like Amway et al.
Are you comfortable with this apparent contradiction?
Thank you for amending the wording in your post.
Network marketing as a method of marketing goods was first introduced by Amway in the fifties. The methods and commission distribution plan, was well suited to those early days.
Fifty years later there are a few thousand different companies and each uses a different method and markets different products.However the early companies that remain very reputable and very large, have changed very little whilst the market is in it’s forth wave of evolution. The new players in the market must necessarily highlight the remarkable difference between companies.
There is a report written a few years back that compares 200 MLM companies. Written by Daren C. Falter, it is an easy 50 pages read and will probably show to the person that thinks all network companies are the same, that such is a biased oversimplification just like “all franchises” are not the same or “all men” are not the same, they in deed are franchises but they are as different as men can be.
It is the same with Network Marketing companies. They share the same concept of marketing by word of mouth but the similarities stop there. Just like a statement that says “all men are the same” would lift a few eye brows, your statement probably made in haste and in ignorance of the industry, was undeserved.
“What you want in your life occasionally shows up…
what you must have… always does.” . . . . . Doug Firebaugh
May God Prosper you.[biggrin]
MarcCall me a sceptic but when any type of organisation tries to lure you in with a pitch long on hyperbole and short on information screams RUN AWAY to me.
Can you provide the stock code for chosen4u or winners edge or whatever the real name is?
BTW Winners Edge is an animal supplement supplier in the US
<post deleted>[offtopic]
Yeh agree Dazzling (answer to post below)
Wow,
This has got a tad off topic…
Geez, Marc and Wayne…you blokes should sit down and thrash this difference out over a beer.
You both sound like experienced PI’s. Hopefully you can contribute without getting the lawyers involved.
I’m finding it fascinating this “voting for a Pope” charade by the cardinals who are eligible. The last time around in ’78, I was too young to understand, now I find it very clandestine…very ancient and secretive. The head purple PJ has apparently given a directive not for any of them to talk to the media until the voting is over.
Cheers,
Dazzling
“No point having a cake if you can’t eat it.”
Originally posted by Dazzling:I’m finding it fascinating this “voting for a Pope” charade by the cardinals who are eligible. The last time around in ’78, I was too young to understand, now I find it very clandestine…very ancient and secretive. The head purple PJ has apparently given a directive not for any of them to talk to the media until the voting is over.
Cheers,
Dazzling
“No point having a cake if you can’t eat it.”
No different to a meeting of say the Labor caucus to elect a new leader. Done in private, secretly – maybe a few “an inside Labor source” comments.
I’m interested that you term it a charade though – care to elaborate?
Dazzling,
Funny how a charade to you is part of an ancient tradition for a billion Catholics around the world…
Personally, I feel privilleged that I have had the chance to see the process of a change over of a pope. Last time it happened, I was two months old!!!My husband and I got engaged the same day we happen to see Pope John Paul II, so I suppose I am a little biased about the whole thing.
Then again, I certainly don’t agree on all the stances the Church has taken with different topics, but it is my perogative to pick and choose what I want to hear about.
Hmmm…
Fascinating to say the least. Let’s see how Ratsinger does over the next few years… I personally think he was a little old, but anyhoo…
Steph.Success is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration.
Hey all
Interesting topic- the holdings of religoius organisations. I grew up Catholic- but it doesn’t matter what religion one has or doesn’t have- same goes for all religoius organisations or institutoins really- they’re all pretty rich. So is the monarchy in England, and pretty much all monarchies. Institutions are prtected in the common law. My perspective is that if an organisation/institution is run like a business, and makes a profit, then it should pay tax- simple.Re the editing… there is no such thing as religious vilification laws- only racial vilification laws… and in terms of anti-discrimination laws… they protect, for example, religious affiliation in the provision of goods and services and access and participation in education ONLY… so comments made on here could not be seen to contravene any common laws, but people may find them offensive- different story. But just wanted to say that comments on religion are legal- however unfriendly they might appear.
kay henry
Interesting topic- the holdings of religoius organisations. I grew up Catholic- but it doesn’t matter what religion one has or doesn’t have- same goes for all religoius organisations or institutoins really- they’re all pretty rich. So is the monarchy in England, and pretty much all monarchies. Institutions are prtected in the common law. My perspective is that if an organisation/institution is run like a business, and makes a profit, then it should pay tax- simple.You must be logged in to reply to this topic. If you don't have an account, you can register here.
