intersting wayne – enormous leap of faith required from the collective conscience i imagine, but it makes sence. its amazing that with all the worldy excesses open to us (wine, woman, smokes, food, drugs etc) that somehow most of us are still able to live a life of relative moderation. i think the article is about ‘when we empower people to make choices – most people decide good over bad!!!
a healthy society is one that where people think for themselves..rather than relying on big brother to dicate whats right or wrong..
Hi wayneL,
I just looked at the website you posted and the thing that caught my eye was the term ‘War on Drugs.’ You know what that implies? There’s a war being fought and people on drugs are winning it? Just think about it for a minute. I picture the war on drugs like the American colonials fighting the Indians? (Anybody seen ‘Dancing With Wolves?’) There’s a field of red coats and the Indians are up in the trees ‘toking’ away saying to themselves, “Are they fighting us? We’re not even in that field? I guess we’re winning by ‘default?’ “No combat, we’re ahead!” I don’t use drugs but I just don’t get it? Alcohol and cigarettes are drugs and they kill more people than marijuana and heroin combined! So the war has definetely taken a ‘cease fire’ there? The only time I’ve heard of drug stories on the news (which is supposed to be ‘objective’) is always negative. The same story. “Young man on LSD thought he could fly so he jumped off a building and died.” I know it’s tragic but if he thought he could fly why didn’t he take off from the ground first to check it out? You don’t see pidgeons going up to the 12th floor before flying south for the winter???? I’d like to see a ‘positive’ news worthy story just for a change. Just once, to hear what it’s all about?
“Today a young man took LSD and realized that matter is really energy condensed to a small vibration. That we are all one conciousness experiencing itself subjectively. There is no such thing as death. Life is only a dream and we are the imagination of ourselves. Now here’s Bruce MacAveney with Sports!!!”…………”Golly, did you see the news mum about drugs?”
Cheers,
Gatsby!Over the counter drugs, the end of black market.
The above is not a hypothesis but reality in Denmark where heroin addicts can purchase for a modest sum heroin filled cigarets, hand made by the local chemist and purchased with a prescription from your GP who recognises drug addiction like the illness it is, and not as a crime.
And that is the crux of the matter. Politician have convinced us that the criminal is the user, by showing us how the user is the one that breaks into your hose to steal for his habit.Yet if you had first hand experience with the general drug addict population, at lest in Australia, you would know that they are a rather dumb bunch, not capable of any complicated strategies, almost harmless, and that they are driven to crime like a hungry person would be to feed his stomach.
Would this people still commit crimes if the drug would be available on the cheap and legally?
Not so according to the Swiss Studyhttp://www.aidslaw.ca/Maincontent/otherdocs/Newsletter/Winter9798/18HEROINE.html
However the drug problem is a complex one, and one that we usually only hear the American – Hollywood version.
This link gives an overview http://faculty.ncwc.edu/toconnor/pol/495lect08.htm
May God prosper you always.[biggrin]
MarcWell firstly I am stunned to be agreeing with Marc.
It is a tough thing to discuss though, particularly with parents of teenagers, because of the emotiveness that has been created by the authorities.
I can understand parents being against the idea.
It’s a shame it can’t be at least debated in the public arena.
Sorry about the bad link, I fixed it now.
Regarding the difficulties for proper debate, I agree. Mainly we have been indoctrinated in believeing that the addict of any substance, has a choice each time and that the person has his free will intact and therefore is responsible for his condition and the perpetuation of the problem.
The reality is very different, addiction has two components, one is psicological and the other is phisical. When every addict can trace his history back to one intial choice made willingly, the downward spiral is rather steep and the point is reached very soon where the person has completely lost his capacity for self extraction.
The above concept has now infiltrated other illnes and we are now witness to smokers and alcoholic who are put in the too hard basket and life saving surgery denied or put back in the queue and priority given to other cases.
When the rational behind such resources scarce decisions is self evident, the ethics are dubious at best.
What about the ethics behind the partnership between tobacco / alcohol / gambling and the tax department?As a society we have a long way to go before we can say there ise even basic equality between individuals.
May God prosper you always.[biggrin]
MarcMarc marc marc… YOUR SPELLING!!! It’s atrocious!! Physical and psychological… Oh and illness has the double s….
Sorry…Am currently writing my spelling programme for school and am being hawke eye at the mo….
I do have to agree with that article though. Take the devil out of the substance and the attractiveness disappears… Some people only take illicit drugs because it “could” get them into trouble and they want to be seen as rick takers in their group of friends. Take that risk out of the equation and the dynamics of young people change. They would probably look to sports for the same high as adrenaline can give the same euphoric sensation.
Drug addiction is a mental problem stemming from the fact that the person knows they are doing wrong but can’t stop it because they have to steal to support the habit. It’s a never ending cycle of violence. Take the stealing situation out and the face of society would change.
Interesting topic…
Steph.
p.s. I have known many people caught in the cycle of drugs, crime and incarceration and in particular onw family I know had two out of three girls addicted to drugs… Very hard on the family…Success is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration.
“First issue on the agenda in the “PEOPLE WHO HATE PEOPLE PARTY”
1/.DRUG CRISIS.
“I hated coming here today. The traffic was a pain in the bum!”
” Maybe you should have stayed home and legalized dope?”
“Don’t be an idiot!”
“F#$k you! I also think it should be mandatory!”Imagine next time I’m stuck in traffic with a car up my bum blasting his horn. I’ll just get out of my car, go up to the driver and say ‘SHUT UP AND SMOKE THAT! IT’S THE LAW!!!!!’
(driver takes 2 or 3 puffs).
“Sh#t I’m sorry, I was taking life too seriously!!”
END OF MEETING
(“Judge ‘Gatsby’ will return in a moment!”)yes i agree with marc 1 also………wow! marc your last points came out of LEFT field (if you know what i mean)
hehe
It’s an issue so totally divided. My grandfather (who I only met once when I was 9 years old in a hospital 2 weeks before he died) died of alcohol. My sister is an alcoholic and I haven’t been able to see her for over a year. Her ex husband who was like a brother to me is an alcoholic. So in terms of drugs, I’ve seen and experienced the damage that it has on people and their families. Other drugs like dope and mushrooms grow ‘NATURALLY’ upon the planet. Yet they’re against the law. Do you think making ‘NATURE’ against the law seem, I don’t know, ‘UNNATURAL???’ There are so many variables and costs involved (emotions, legality, health, money, politics, socio/economic, personal choice, mental illness, etc) that you can look at a drug issue from every angle and each angle makes sense. Dope is used for terminal diseases such as cancer and MS, etc. Dope can also trigger off panic disorder and schizophrenia for those genetically predisposed. These are just some of my thoughts while reading this post.
Cheers,
Gatsby.Interesting, but do we only have saints and sinners? A lot of talk about addicts and non-users, but what about recreational drug users who are not addicted but choose one addictive substance (cocaine/ecstacy etc) over another addictive substance (alcohol).
I know people who prefer drugs to alcohol as it doesn’t make them as ill, no agro that alcohol sometimes encourages, they can still function normally (open to interpretation), but have a feeling of wellbeing, happiness, or confidence.
It’s not a simple issue so I don’t see a simple solution. Education not dictatorial behaviour is more of an answer. i.e. you can do cocaine without being arrested, but the long term side effects are the rotting of your nasal passage which will eventually result in you inhaling coke straight into your brain and killing yourself.
Hi Anubis,
I’ve just finished reading ‘The Damage Done’ by Warren Fellows. Now I don’t want to get into the ethical/morality of someone who was caught and imprisoned for trying to smuggle heroin (ie the lives destroyed by heroin) out of Thailand, however it was an incredible book to read and what he had to endure. The point I want to raise is what you mentioned about education. The worst prison he ended serving time in was ‘Bang Kwang.’ Here prisoners used heroin fairly freely with the guards to a point, which ironically was the very reason why most westerners were sent there in the first place! My point however is on education. Somewhere in the book Fellows talks about how at school anti drug campaigns (and I remember this too when I was at school) focused solely on how the use of drugs (ie heroin) was always associated with a picture and description of how ugly you will look and how your life will fall apart with addiction/withdrawal, etc. Fellows talks about if only education would mention how you will actually first feel ‘fantastic’ before this stage, then perhaps young people may take heed and understand the whole message. I guess if you are constantly told how bad you will feel and when/if you try that very thing and feel great then automatically the message may lose credibility to an adolescent. When he started using heroin to cope with years of bashings, torture and death all around him on a daily basis it was an escape for him in that environment to cope with the reality of life in this existence.
I’m not condoning or condeming what he said. I just thought it was a poignant statement (and an incredible book for anyone who is interested in reading it).
Cheers,
Gatsby.I used to think that drugs were harmless fun, but now I take them seriously.
F.[chill]Yes, drugs are bad, the article good. Or interesting at least.
The latest drug campaign on telly is interesting in this “DRUGS” debate. It doesn’t even touch on the most addictive drug of all, alcohol. Alcohol is the most commonly used drug in teenagers. It is abused every weekend and children continue to do it.
Being in education myself, I see the gaps in drug education. The biggest gap I see is honesty. I mean, drugs do make you feel good. For a certain period of time, then you come down, have headaches, stomach cramps etc.etc… If drugs didn’t feel good, you wouldn’t take them.
I have been guilty of that. I’ve smoked a bit of pot every now and then and still enjoy a spliff with my husband.
I feel what is needed of educators is not an ignorant approach but one that lets the kids know of the whole drug. Um… how to explain. I mean, would it be harmful to run through some scenarios with teenagers about what to do if their mate overdoses or has a bad experience? Maybe that would hit home the real realities of drugs? I dunno.
Food for thought…
Steph.Success is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration.
yeh but most of us don’t mind a drop of the ol’ vino so we can’t really lecture them about that one! plus one drink won’t addict you, unlike say nicotine which I read is more addicitve than heroin?
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I think the education falls down when the “educatees” are talked down to or patronised. It’s hard to take a message seriously when the “educator” has no first hand knowledge of the topic.
It’s a bit like my Catholic priest giving me and my wife marriage counselling before the wedding. It’s part of the deal but what can he tell me about married life?
I think Steph is right – perhaps we need an alternative drug’s pamphlet. Not recommending them to take drugs but if you do here’s what to watch out for, drink lots of water etc.
Anubis,
you know you can get counselling from other areas than your priest.We went and did Engaged Encounter and it was the best thing we did before we were married. A little on the religious side, but Cremin just disappeared during the service and came back after it.
Costs about two hundred bucks, but well worthwhile because you hear from other married couples and you spend a LOT of time just talking to your partner about what you hope for your marriage. We discovered a couple of issues that we had thought we had resolved but they were simmering under the surface so it was great to get that all sorted.
As for the educatees, well I think a lot of them have the first hand knowledge of drugs and trialling a huge variety of them, it would just seem callous to tell kids about their experiences about it. I mean if I was asked by a teenager if I had smoked pot in a school situation, I would probably say no because of the implications for my career.
I would love to say yes and explain why I do (mainly for pain relief…), but parents are not so forgiving.
Anyway.
We can only hope someone sensible will create a drug education pack that is realistic soon.
Steph.Success is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration.
Originally posted by Scremin:Anubis,
you know you can get counselling from other areas than your priest.Should have explained that it was mandatory in order for him to perform ceremony. We didn’t require any but had to have a few sessions with him anyway prior to the wedding.
Originally posted by Gatsby:Hi Anubis,
I’ve just finished reading ‘The Damage Done’ by Warren Fellows. Now I don’t want to get into the ethical/morality of someone who was caught and imprisoned for trying to smuggle heroin (ie the lives destroyed by heroin) out of Thailand, however it was an incredible book to read and what he had to endure.Hi Gatsby – haven’t read this but “Marching Powder” is also a powerful read. About an English guy imprisoned in South America for trying to smuggle coke. Full of ironies, like wives & children living in the prison, having to buy your cell, and coke being cheaper and more plentiful in the prison. He gained notoriety as tourists could go visit and pay to stay overnight in the prison.
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