Greetings all,
Is anyone else out there tired of hearing about Neil
Jenman. I was searching google for topics on wraps and came across this:http://www.jenman.com.au/NewsAlerts1.php?id=31
People who can’t see both sides of the coin should keep their ignorant mouths firmly shut.
That’s what I think.
Karl
The only thing that limits us…is a limiting belief.
Hey Karl,
Hate to tell you but that’s old news. You must not have heard enough as the article to which you refer caused an almighty uproar. This article was read and commented on by a poster from one of the property investment forums (SS I think) and of course it got Mr Jenman seeing RED. Well needless to say it was on!!!
Here is a link from SS which will fill you in on the rest of the story:
http://www.somersoft.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18729&highlight=Wraps+SMH
Happy reading, there is some 70 odd posts to go through. BTW if you do a search, I believe there was a lengthy thread in here too running at the same time.
Cheers,
Jo
I enjoy reading his stuff.
I enjoy reading stuff from real esate agents, mcknight, spann, somersoft, wrappers, banks, valuers, economists, investors, real estate institutes, ASIC, newspapers etc.
At the end of the day, I make up my own mind. Everybody has vested interests.
I agree with Yack. You’ve got to see what people are saying and make your own assessment.
Some of the stuff on Jenman’s website is pretty interesting. He provides quite an insight to the dodgy dealings of many real estate dirtbags. He’s about the only high profile guy around who’s actually trying to clean up the industry. sure he’s out for a buck, but who isn’t? You? Gimme a break, you’re not investing to give to charity, it’s to look after number one! Right? At least Jenman puts himself out there and tries to help people not get ripped off. He’s entitled to earn a living, and he does it by running an ethical real estate practice (well at least more ethical than most others).
I’ll hear anyone out, then use my god given nous to decide whether I’m going to buy the line. No need to abuse people just cause they present a contradictory argument.
Thanks for the link Monopoly, interesting read, and am now more convinced he’s on some crusade against wrapping.
Before I got into RE investing I went to a Neil Jenman seminar in Brisbane. He was talking about Real Estate agents at the time with attacks on auctions. He even gave everyone at the seminar a free showbag with his latest book (at the time) “Real Estate Mistakes”.
The book and the seminar opened my eyes to the possibility of dodgy going-ons with real estate agents and the like, and I am grateful for that. Yet like a lot of people who discover they have a little power, they want more and believe they can attack anything even if they don’t fully understand.
My main point is this, and may have been expressed by others as well:
If Mr Jenman is so righteous, why can he not humble himself for two minutes and view wrapping from all perspectives. Wrapping is a TOOL. A hammer is a TOOL. A knife is a TOOL. People can kill with a hammer or knife and it’s the PERSON using it that defines it. Not the tool itself. If Jenman opens his eyes a little wider he’ll see that there are a lot of people using this tool to the better.
Unfortunately on this forum, we only seem to be preaching to the converted.
Again, this is only my opinion.
Cheers,
Karl.
The only thing that limits us…is a limiting belief.
<parts of this post has been edited by admin>
I can’t see how Jenman can fool so many good people into believing 1/10 of what he says is true. His systems and his sales methods are flawed.
Byronent
Adelaide SACare to elaborate on the flaws? I happen to think his stuff is pretty good. I’m open to other opinions though. Would like to know specifically which of his stuff you don’t agree with.
Thanks,
eeshold
I tried to buy a house through a Jenman agent, it was impossible.
No listings to look at, a salesperson who averaged 2-3 days to return my calls… maybe that’s okay for your average home buyer, but as an investor it just wasted too much of my time.Keep smiling
Felicity
They don’t list your property anywhere.
You have to register to look at anything for sale.
YOu get one offer your absolute best offer and they don’t negotiate.
They charge high commissions for sale.
They preach and almost dictate that other non jenmen agents are criminal.
I could go on, but Jenman is not worth my time and energy. If you are happy with them I suggest you stay with them. All others, watch out, as a buyer they may be ok, if you can sift through the bull<edited>. As a seller, you will not get the best price using a Jenman agent.
Byronent
Adelaide SAOriginally posted by Karl and Rita:Thanks for the link Monopoly, interesting read, and am now more convinced he’s on some crusade against wrapping.
Before I got into RE investing I went to a Neil Jenman seminar in Brisbane. He was talking about Real Estate agents at the time with attacks on auctions. He even gave everyone at the seminar a free showbag with his latest book (at the time) “Real Estate Mistakes”.
The book and the seminar opened my eyes to the possibility of dodgy going-ons with real estate agents and the like, and I am grateful for that. Yet like a lot of people who discover they have a little power, they want more and believe they can attack anything even if they don’t fully understand.
My main point is this, and may have been expressed by others as well:
If Mr Jenman is so righteous, why can he not humble himself for two minutes and view wrapping from all perspectives. Wrapping is a TOOL. A hammer is a TOOL. A knife is a TOOL. People can kill with a hammer or knife and it’s the PERSON using it that defines it. Not the tool itself. If Jenman opens his eyes a little wider he’ll see that there are a lot of people using this tool to the better.
Unfortunately on this forum, we only seem to be preaching to the converted.
Again, this is only my opinion.
Cheers,
Karl.
The only thing that limits us…is a limiting belief.
During the gun “debate” did you believe that firearms should have been taken from law abiding citizens? I mean, guns are a “tool”.
For what it’s worth (not much to you guys but then again in the right circumstances you’d think I was an angel. Hope you never need me) I think wrapping fails the “can I look at myself in the mirror” test.
Air goes in and out. Blood goes round and round. Any variation is a bad thing
Originally posted by Torachan:For what it’s worth (not much to you guys but then again in the right circumstances you’d think I was an angel. Hope you never need me) I think wrapping fails the “can I look at myself in the mirror” test.
Ignorant words written by ignorant people attacking what they don’t fully understand.
If a person who can’t get finance the traditional way then develops a good credit rating because a wrapper gave them the chance, then is able to get a loan from a traditional bank to buy out the wrapper, I believe this to be a positive outcome.
Torachan, for that comment about guns, by saying that – you support what I wrote. Yes guns are a tool as well, and in the hands of the wrong person a dangerous one.
The “can I look at myself in the mirror” test really relates to the integrity (or lack of) in a persons actions.
Karl.
The only thing that limits us…is a limiting belief.
Torachan,
Excellent analogy about guns. I won’t get into the ‘gun control/gun lobby debate.’ However you kind of read my mind in a way.
I’ve seen 2 bumper stickers.
1st one. “Guns Don’t Kill People. People Kill People.”
2nd one. “Guns Don’t Kill People. People Kill People…..With Guns! An emotive topic which cancels out logic. As for Neil Jenman, et al. I leave that to those ‘for and against.’
As someone has previously stated, they have benefitted from Henry Kaye in some lesson. As they said in the Warren Commission, ‘No matter how thin the pancake, there are always 2 sides.’
Cheers,
Gatsby!I had a protracted exchange of emails with Jenman over this issue.
Me, neutral/slightly in favour of wraps. Him, of course, vehemently against.
His main concern the property being in the purchasers name. Because if the wrap company go’s belly up. The purchaser will lose their house, and their equity, even if their payment record is impeccable.
His second point was…well it was a question…would I be comfortable taking on a wrap contract as a purchaser, knowing what I know?
I had to honestly answer no.
I am still not anti-wraps, but I had to admit he has a point.
Cheers
Originally posted by Karl and Rita:
[br
Ignorant words written by ignorant people attacking what they don’t fully understand.I trust that you aren’t calling me ignorant?
Air goes in and out. Blood goes round and round. Any variation is a bad thing
Torachan, your comments about wraps clearly shows ignorance……..
Jenman is a modern day bully, making his case for his own systems, which put money into his pockets…… <edited>
Please if you want to discuss wraps, I suggest you learn their workings first…. <edited>
Scott,
You seem to have a very ethical approach to wraps.
Is there anything on the horizon, which would alleviate this concern?…that is if the wrap company goes bankrupt?
I reckon if this area of preserving equity were tidied up somehow, Jenman et al would be silenced.
Cheers
Wayne,
We are talking to one of the big banks here on what is possible….
At this stage we are working on the wrappee simply being transferred direct to the bank to continue payments of the 1st mortgage…..
Obviously the way I have written this above is very simplistic…… but it should be possible…. 1 concern obviously is the privacy laws….
People like Jenman get worked up based on incorrect and often one-sided information…….
I have said this many many many times here and on other forums….. the main issues are about protecting the wrappee ( buyer )
1. Name on title….. this is possible, BUT, how about protection for the wrapper ?? when for instance the wrappee stops making payments etc ??
2. Wrap company folding….. as mentioned above….. BUT….. I would wager that people who are serious about wrapping properties manage finances appropriately, and there is really not much risk of this happening…. unless they over committ…. yes things happen… but if you are gonna be serious about it…. you manage your business/company properly…
With the VFA kind of in limbo at the moment, it’s my sincere hope that there is some government regulation……
As an experienced wrapper, I AM ALL FOR THE REGULATION AND PROTECTION of my customers……
Oh… and by the way…. I sleep so well at night, having helped so many families to own their own home….. Most customers stay with us 12 months before re-financing…. We are helping people……
Much better than just being a landlord……
Cheers
Scott
You may know the cost of everything…. but what about the value ????
Great to hear things are progressing along towards this goal.
By Jenman not at least acknowledging this seems to speaks volumes. If he were serious about consumer protection, he would be helping, or encouraging the process along.
On balance, I think wrapping has more positives than negatives. As you say, most people are happy with the outcome.
It is very easy to dredge up victims in any system. Banking, medicine, law, all have there own set of victims as well.
When you get it ironed out, be sure to shout it out from the rooftops…and stick it up the jenman mob.
Cheers
Scott,
I agree that there should be very little risk of a wrap company going belly up. As you know well, they make their profit on spread as well as any potential CG if the wrappee defaults.
If their making a positive spread then how can they fold? Unless they are spending it elsewhere on riskier ventures and thereby come undone. Once a wrap is established then the risk is negligible. And the risk up front can be mitigated with “subject to’s” on the contract such as “subject to finding a suitable tennant buyer”.
I know I’m preaching to the choir, but I fully agree with you and Karl’s posts on this matter. Its not my kettle of fish as it seems like hard work and very legally complicated. But I believe that ethical wrappers provide an excellent service to a certain subset of the market that doesn’t initially qualify for conventional loans.
I spent a lot of time conversing on the John Burley forum and learning as much about wraps as I could. Ethics did occassionally pop up as a discussion topic and was well dealt with by posts such as Karl’s above.
Cheers,
Michael.Guys,
Thanks again for the comments….
We will get there, and, once a positive outcome appears I will work with some other people, such as Tim O’Dwyer in QLD, to ensure that some of the more open minded watchdogs are happy….
It’s all about how YOU treat your customers…. We have one family that is now looking at buying their 4th home with us…… now… what does that tell you ??? Oh.. and by the way we FULLY disclose……
Jenman likes to preach using fear tactics, based on old or inaccurate opinionated information….. all he wants is for YOU the CONSUMER to deal with a JENMAN agent…. which obviously puts the $$$$ into who’s pocket ???
Come on….. it’s all about business at the end of the day……
You may know the cost of everything…. but what about the value ????
You must be logged in to reply to this topic. If you don't have an account, you can register here.
