Why the West is Riding for a Fall

Where is the summary?

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[withstupid]
The forumite formally known as Big Rob

Interesting? I have been saying this stuff for the last decade and being accused of religious bigottry and racism every time without fail.

Politicians of all persuasions are only interested in perpetuating their place in power, or gaining a place in the sun, regarldess of cost. No one is governing we are on a ship whitout anyone at the helm, pirats are jumping on board from all sides and we let them in the hope they pay taxes and vote. The word used is “tollerance”, yet unless we become a lot more “intollerant” towards our elected representatives and their pathetic antics we will lose big time.

May God prosper you always.[biggrin]
Marc

Who has read the Kiyosaki book- Rich Dads Prophecy??

Shawn

Marc,

You and I both! Unfortunately, us on the far left are often perceived as being removed from reality. Unfortunately for us all, I think reality is going to catch up with us sooner rather than later.

Societies need to operate in a sustainable way, or by definition cease to operate in that way. Western societies modus operandi is completely unsustainable. The environment is in massive decline and levels of wealth and consumerism are funded by foreign debt. The american model is built on a deck of cards and they are hiding the immediate issues by deflecting global attention towards the war on terror. This is obviously an attempt by the far right hawks to delay the inevitable through global imperialism.

Unfortunately for america, the rest of the world is on to their little ruse and it won’t wash. The american economy is being propped up only so long as it serves the rest of the world to hold it thus. Already other trading blocs are forming such as ASEAN and Euro and a resergence of the former soviet bloc. The US and their global beligerence are already doomed to go the way of the roman empire amongst others.

Ah well, as aussierogue says, no use fighting it. Just sit back and watch the show. Here’s hoping the americans are big enough to take it like a man and not go down swinging. If they do, then there’s a few too many nukes ready to fly as the empire dies. Unfortunately, George dubya has already said that if America dies then he plans on taking the rest of the world with them. In his words, “its a fight to the death”…

Don’t we love a beligerent self-serving superpower with no manifest control over them…

Cheers,
Michael.

To whoever did read the article pointed at in the link on the original post … (yes you have to register to read it but it takes no time at all)

Perhaps my post was a bit rushed and I came across as “shooting from the trenches”.
In fact I left the trenches a long time ago when I realised that by blaming the government for my troubles I was empowering others and dis-empowering myself….but that is another story.

Of course the above does not make me blind to what is happening and I read the article pointed out above with interest. It is an accurate analysis of what is happening, from the pampering of the automotive industry and the oil industry and all the other comments.
Where the author gets unstuck in my personal view is in the doom and gloom prediction.

The authors both compare the “west” with events in the past like the fall of the Roman empire and other civilisations that disappeared pointing out at the fact that most did so for abusing their environment. When that is in fact true for some ancient civilisations like the Mayas and Incas, the Easter Island and others, that used up massive amounts of resources to burn rock to make lime for their pyramids or other constructions, all the examples have something in common, they are either extremely insular economies or like the Romans, where held together by force and not by a market.

To talk about “the west” today to begin with is a fallacy. What is the “west” in economic terms? Is the “west” independent? Is it self sufficient? Is it isolated? The reality is that as Regan stated a long time ago in response to the anti-imperialist slogans of “independence”, -who is independent? we are all interdependent.

The market realities of more powerful players and less powerful, more corrupt and even more corrupt players, cheaper labour, consumerism, profit chasing and all the other factors that make the market go, are not necessarily a symptom of imminent fall Roman Empire Style.
The interdependence of each and every single player on the planet has increased the capacity of singular economies to bounce back, many times over if compared to 50 or 100 years ago, and may be 1000 times if compared to 2000 years ago.
When this does not make us invulnerable to our own mistakes, nuclear disasters being one of the impending catastrophes that are possible, to say that the use of the environment will spell disaster “the Incas style” is alarmist and unfounded, unless other bigger and more “western” intergalactic civilisations transform us in an insular and vulnerable “third world” economy.

A repeat of the 30ties depression is certainly possible yet we survived that and will this one. Environmental misery, last century England style may happen gain yet we will survive that and much worst.

Yet not once did the article mention the real doom that will grip the human race.

The real doom will come in the form of a universal tyrannic government that with a hidden agenda will destroy what is left to destroy for his own purposes. Christians call it the government of the beast.

Christians who believe in this events, (not all do), live a real conflict since they find it difficult to plan and project for everyday life, to achieve and strive with this knowledge of future destruction in mind.

A wise person told me once, talking about this dichotomy, that for all practical purposes a believer in this events must:
“live his life as if the end is tomorrow….but plan his life as if it is in 200 years”.

Since we don’t really own anything but all we have is borrowed and we are simple stewards, the suggestion to sit back and see it happening sounds attractive.
Nevertheless, and knowing Aussie R. I know he does not mean to sit back and do nothing. If I may elaborate on such proposal, let’s work on what we can change, learn to live with what we cannot change, and ask for wisdom to know the difference ….(or words to that effect)[biggrin]

“

May God prosper you always.[biggrin]
Marc

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/january2005/210105devilhand.htm

Yes there is a lot of symbolism that can be discussed, Masonic and others, but my point was a different one. To debate the government of the beast needs to bring in a lot of other topics not relevant to this web site.

I found the article interesting because it is the first time I see two authors that are not into racial vilification, skin heads or neo Nazi and yet do condemn the indiscriminate migration and point at the planned religious conquest by designed massive reproduction.

As for the doom by environmental destruction it seems to me that has a very green signature, therefore a political agenda per se.

The biblical predictions of a one world government don’t need introduction and have massive numbers of publications, Christians or otherwise, to illustrate it.

My point is just to remind us that when it is important to be vigilant and informed about the possible events of the future, it is not for us to worry rather to be informed and prepared to adjust to the changes.
Change what we can and adapt to what we cannot. Arm chair “Che Guevara” are useless to our quality of life and can only bring despair and ulcers.

May God prosper you always.[biggrin]
Marc

It’s very interesting the lines we draw that tend to blur over the years. The ALP and the Liberal party’s used to be quite different in policy and belief, as were their supporters. Now they have very similar policies – both have moved to the centre.

What I didn’t realise was that the far left was so similar to the far right. Both want similar outcomes for different reasons.

WayneL,

Well it seems you’re right that Marc isn’t over there on the left. He just took to them with the sledgehammer with his last post painting them with all the typical negative stereotypes they are perceived by. Got my back up a bit, but I won’t take the bait.

I’m probably centre left. I’m a capitalist who’s an executive in a multi-national wood products company who is studying his MBA and is into REI. I guess that’s enough to rule me out of the tree hugging kind of far left minority. I am however concerned about the short-termism of right and far right governments such as those in power in the US and Australia today.

I differentiate between the left and right in terms of long term / short term. The right seems concerned about maximising economic returns today (short term) at the expense of future generations (long term) who will figure it out for themselves. George dubya when asked “How do you think history will judge you?” replied “Who cares, I’ll be dead by then!” – typical myopic short-termism. The left basically argue all decisions and actions should work within the confines of the closed system we live in and consider the long-term impacts. Before adopting a FTA with the US you should ask what impact the Intellectual Property protection will have on future generations. Before marginalising Kyoto you should ask what impact on one or two generations time of global warming.

Anyway, I feel more at home espoucing the views of the all-inclusive, forward looking left than the divisive, intollerant, short term looking right.

Thankfully both views serve a purpose and typically balance each other out with governments walking the centre road for fear of alienating either camp. Unfortunately, they’re a bit centre right at the moment so hang on to your hats as we’re in for a bumpy ride.

Cheers,
Michael.

PS Marc, gay marriage? Are you seriously suggesting that this is a bad thing???… That’s the sort of non-inclusive viewpoints that scare me about the right. I thought religion was all about one people under god and universal love. I guess I was wrong, and that’s why I bought out of the whole thing a long time ago…

Aussie, Middle class doctor? So? Since when are ideals the exclusive realm of the working class?
He fought for what he believed. Not my cuppatee yet you must give it to him and all the other that are committed to a cause, be it Whaling ship chasing or commercial logging.
I admire commitment even if it is the (in my vew) wrong cause. Deeply dislike arm chair talkers who have never jumped in a trench any trench ever, and “Play it safe” (meaning go nowhere)

So whatever your thing is, talk about and do accordingly, nothing better than consistency.

Which takes me to your BMW [biggrin]

Why guilty? Why oh why??
Would it be better you chose a recycled old Holden Kingswood?

Lets compare…Your BMW is made with parts produced in mostly third world countries, under condition that are fabulous if compared with the sweat shop that makes nicknacks for tourist or cloths for $1.20 a piece, so you are contributing in a way towards third world prosperity.
The Kingswood contribution towards the third world is limited to purchasing that much more oil from the OPEC…very limited.
You pay more taxes because of your car than Mr Holden Kingswood, use up less fuel, good for the trade deficit and most importantly your spending will produce more wealth for you since such is the law of prosperity, spending will actually bring more in than you give out, but that is another story.

I am interested in your comments about the article in question, particularly your views on the comments about immigration and the imminent civilization doom due to poor environment management.

Huluru

May God prosper you always.[biggrin]
Marc

Of course, such clear picture. Lets unit in our mutual guilt for what we have achieved.

Your reasoning assumes two things…that equality is somehow the necessary solution and that since you feel guilty, a less successful life would be better for you.

Be careful for what you wish, you may actually get it.

When such mediocrity (free of guilt) is achieved how much would the person be able to give, to re-circulate, to teach about prosperity, to help others to succeed? Answer not much at all.
In fact when such status is “achieved”, the table is turned and in comes the soapbox from where I will launch invective to the evil rich people who caused my mediocrity and that don’t let go of their riches, a share of which they owe me.

Guilt about our success in the form of:” look at me an others don’t have food etc”, is just one of the many ways we find to sabotage our success, to fit in with the anti-value that rich is evil and poor is virtuous. Sad but true.

Just think about it, it makes no sense whatsoever. If my motivator was to help others less fortunate with a meal, I should be out there shoveling in billions in order to accumulate as much as I can to help in a much more effective way. I would become the everyday Santa Claus with a Lar Jet dropping money or meals over the poor of the world. Is Santa Claus guilty of his wealth? His North Pole Castle? His labouring dwarfs? Certainly not! He has a mission!

Why do people on the way to success feel guilt? Because on their way to success thy have yet to drop the baggage of anti values that is holding them back and unless they do so they will never rich destination, holding on to the myriad of excuses the way to success offers and that are deep rooted in our subconscious, planted there by an army of underachievers that surround us and who “know better.”

I would love to talk about the laws of prosperity longer with you but experience tells me that the people that are really interested are the one that knock at my door uninvited and ask about it, not the one I address or engage in debate to show them the errors in their reasoning. As much as I love debating, it appears that at the end most people find it just an exercise to find quick answer to defend their convictions not a way to learn from others about a different way of thinking.

Huluru

May God prosper you always.[biggrin]
Marc