Hi All,
I engaged a builder to build a house for me based on some simple ideas. The builder took a deposit PPA was signed with price agreed and the builder did up the plans. Plans were approved by councl, once approval came through the builder did a price hike of 40K on a represents 20% increase in 12 months. Also is making me rent an adajecent vacant block of land so their tradesman can park their cars, if this isn’t secured they wouldn’t do the building.All these requests came well after the planning approval was agreed. I don’t agree with the price hikes as the nothing extra is being added, I understand that there has been labor increases and materials have risen in price over the last 12 months but I think this is unreasonably high.
But getting to the point I don’t want to do business with this builder as I don’t trust them anymore.
But because they have copywrite over the approved plans, other builders can’t do the job unless this builder signs off the copywrite.
My question…. is the builder oblidged to allow me to give the plans I paid for to another builder since his price hike is unreasonable?
I have only signed a PPA and not a fixed price agreement.
I have checked the copywrite website but it seems to state that the building company holds the copywrite on plans.
Any help would be most appreciated
Andy
I could be wrong but… I should think the plans are his. You will need to pay an architect to come up with a new design incorporating your ideas and resubmit them. I don’t think copyright rules would flex based upon how unfair it was to you that he upped his construction price… as much as it does sound he is ripping you off. WA building costs have gone up around 12% last year – I think he is skimming a bit on top.
http://www.megainvestments.com.auExtensive list of ‘Off The Plan’ property available for sale in Perth.
John – 0419 198 856
If the builder organised for the drafting of the plans and paid for them – then they are his.
You could always buy the plans off him and then you will have the right to let another builder build your property
Michael Yardney
METROPOLE PROPERTIES
Author of Australia’s leading property e-magazine.
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FREE subscription http://www.metropole.com.auI would contact teh architech or designer listed on the plans.
Byronent
Adelaide SADoes the builder own the plan? If he owns the plans, who owns
the ideas or intellectual property? I wouldn’t know, however this
is one case where a modest amount of money spent on a solicitor
could save you a lot of grief (pref one spec in that area). You may
not be able to get those plans back but you may be able to simply
copy them ( just an eg. I had reason to do a lot of reading on copyright
and patenting, I.P etc. recently and realized I knew very little at all
about it and that the terms that people use relating to these situations
are often completely wrong. I just hope you’re not in to deep financially
with him, so as to reduce your options to change service providers if
you so desire! They may also be able to advise you on your position
with regards to addressing his/her recent price hikes.Gday Andy
I have been through a similar situation last year. I had engaged APG to design 3 townhouses for a lot I wished to develop. Based on their conceptual drawings (after $1000 deposit) I paid another $3000 per unit for PPA. They estimated 160K each for construction but later came back at between 180K and 200K.
I signed building contracts but then all sorts of delays with gaining approvals meant that construction did not commence by due time so then price rises were imposed (around 6%).
Eventually it became unfeasible to obtain building approval due to the Water Corp reqiring a sewer to be replaced and concrete encased.
The builder wanted 54K to release me from my contract however after involving a solicitor we settled on 18K (The costs they had incurred).
Now I wanted to obtain the plans however as you have mentioned the builder owns the copyright (even though I paid for them) and they would not even sell them (not their policy). I believe you must change the plans by 20% to avoid legal action (check this for sure).
So bottom line is they own the plans and if it is any of the Webb Brown Group then they will not sell them to you.
You will have to get new designs drawn up (that you own) and start tendering the job out.
Hope this helps.Regards
Clivetough gig Clive. I take it you don’t give out recommendations for APG?
http://www.megainvestments.com.auExtensive list of ‘Off The Plan’ property available for sale in Perth.
John – 0419 198 856
Thanks Clive,
Small world, it is actually is APG who is doing this, so obviously not the first time they have done this to someone. Won’t be using them again or this time if I can get out of it. But it will add time to the development if I have to fight them to get out of it and then get someone else to draw plans up that the council will approve.
Next time I will get a independent draftsman to do the drawings and make the application myself solve alot of headaches.Thanks eveyone for you input.
Andy
It’s possible the price hike is going to be inline with the costs of materials. My husband (a cabinetmaker with links in other trades) has been advised that the cost of building materials over the next year is going to increase by something stupid like 30-100%. The main reason, all the steel is going to China causing a shortfall in supply here in Aus.
Beautiful isn’t it? I live in a state that produces a hell of a lot of steel and we can’t even get a reasonable price on it! Same goes for gas. Chinese are buying it for 2c a litre, we pay (in Geraldton) 65c a litre. Fair? I THINK NOT!!!
What I am trying to say, is that they may be compensating for the up coming price rises. IE, covering his arse so it doesn’t eat into his profits. I mean really, he is running a business to make money.
Steph.
I like all these letters you guys are using. Some of us do not know what they mean.
Regarding your problem, if an agreed price existed, I would be contacting fair trading. I believe in WA you have DOCEP – Department of Consumer and Employment Protection (whom I detest) but they are worth something in situations like this. A well worded complaint should see this matter resolved promptly. Tell Minister Kobelke I sent you!
_____________________________________________
[withstupid]
The forumite formally known as Big Robgreat – just lost my post… an abbreviated version then:
PPA – prep of plans agreement
APG – a project building company, part of webb brown.passed copy of post to an architect mate. he says:
“That’s truly @@@@@!. Apart from all the TLA’s (three letter acronyms) that I didn’t get ie PPA, APG, the copyright argument is complete @@@@ (thank god I attended my contract law and copyright lectures at uni). Truth is, copyright of any design is licensed to the owner of the block. Technically, the designer hands over the copyright of the design to the client but for use only on that site. In other words, the client can’t make copies of the design and re-produce it on other sites. And as a side note, anything an Architect designs for the government automatically belongs to the crown……….funny old world isn’t it
And also, thinking back, if she has paid for the plans she owns the copyright whether the building goes ahead with that builder or not. Any competent lawyer familiar with building law would tell her that”
so the best advise, as earlier suggested, may be to seek legal help!
http://www.megainvestments.com.au
Extensive list of ‘Off The Plan’ property available for sale in Perth.
John – 0419 198 856
Rang DOCEP and because I only signed a PPA (Prelimary Plans Agreement) I didn’t have any rights. In regard to Copywrite issues they can’t help on that either.
But If I had signed a FPC (Fixed Price Contract) and witin 45 days the builder raised the price by more that 5% I coudl void the contract.
I had a contengency factor of 20% factored in but I wasn’t expecting the rise of 33% that APG (Australian Property Group) was advocating.
I understand they need to make money but that rise is excessive 165K PPA agreed
rises to 220K with nothing added. Which makes the development unviable.Even if I have to pay another builder the same amount I will at least they will be more honest and upfront about cost.
P.s… It’s copyright people… Oh dear, everyone’s spelling is going out the window!!
Same as definitely is NOT definately. It is finite. Remember that…
Jsut being picky…
Steph,
You know I love your work, but people in glass houses…
“jsut” being picky [biggrin]
Cheers,
Michael.Hey that was a typo!!!
Steph,
I know, but it was kinda funny [biggrin]. I agree that mispelt words do drive you crazey somtimes… [biggrin][biggrin]
Cheers,
Michael.Oh deer….
interesting that they are so keen to share in the profits, I wonder if in a bear market they would chip in for a loss?
http://www.megainvestments.com.auExtensive list of ‘Off The Plan’ property available for sale in Perth.
John – 0419 198 856
Very interesting article Clive, and it is Dale Alcock who is interviewed who owns the aformentioned APG Homes. So what do you do if you have planning permission and the builder won’t sell you the plans? Submitting new plans for approval will take more time 6 months and more money even though I paid for them in the first place.
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