I am wondering what the best websites are in Australia for selling privately. I’ve just dipped the toe in the water at owner.com.au
Also, any advice on wording such ads? My one (#17186) is quite personalised, since I have had an emotional attachment (dream) for a long time…should it be more ‘unattached’ to be effective?
Are potential buyers scared of actually contacting/negotiating with the owner?
Also, since I’ve listed, I’ve had real estate agents bugging me to list with them, telling me they have the required skills and marketing ability…they don’t like it when I tell them I’ve just read “Real Estate without agents” by Terry Ryder…particularly when I say that I don’t want to be subjected to the agent’s ‘conditioning’ to accept a lower price.
Is there particular sites that are best for particular areas? Any feedback/advice from others who have had success selling prvately, much appreciated…
Probably not what you want to hear, but…
Although I agree in principle with the idealogy of selling privately (the less money lost to REA’s the better)… The reality people that write these books etc. gloss over (or completely ignore) is, people don’t trust real estate agents much – but they trust private sellers even less.
It’s not personal, it’s just that there’s a certain “professionalism” that people expect to get from a REA, that people *believe* they won’t get from a private seller.
This is at least partly true too – since I will always look through private property sales when I stumble on them – and the properties invariably seem to be overpriced compared to others in the same area.
It’s like this… If you saw someone selling a new car you really wanted on the side of the road or in someone’s front yard, and then you saw it in a car yard for the same price – which one would you buy? Now assume it was $2000 cheaper privately… Nearly everyone would STILL buy from the car yard, for the security they perceive they are going to receive.
I think the BIG mistake private sellers make is, they try to sell for the same (or more) value than it would have sold for through the REA. Therefore, people go to the “car dealer” instead. And in that time, the media is forcasting property prices falling further. Maybe in an “up” market, I’d patiently wait. But when it’s on it’s way down?
All the best with it though…
Allan.
Well, thanks for you reply, but I wonder if you’re a REA?
I’ve owned this land since 1987, and I’ve lost count of how many REAs have told me I wouldn’t get, $90K, $150K, and so on…and they have made me feel like a fool for daring to think that I would get what I believe it is worth at the time…despite their ‘expert’ opinions…they just want a sale, any sale.
I’d bet that they are the reason WHY prices have come down…they just want sales and don’t care if their commission is slightly less. They are actively conditioning sellers to now expect less, because it’s money in the their bank to now say that it’s a buyer’s market.
I take comfort in a graph I once saw in the newspaper covering the rise and rise of RE prices over the last 30 years, where, since the 70’s, real estate prices have always trended up, despite the inevitable periods of consolidation/adjustment.
I will get what I want for my property, I just have to be patient, which I am.
Maybe markets like the southern states are coming off, but I tend to believe that with 1000 people settling in SE QLD every week, that, despite the negative media, that prices in Brisbane will not fall too much, before natural demand/supply forces reasserts itself.
I think that selling privately has an enormous way to go if the US is any guide. There, about 20% are private sales, whereas here, it’s only 1-2% …
Plus, with the marketing power of the internet, like the site I’m listed on, REAs just seem too expensive to me…
Just Allan makes a few interesting points however my experience is VERY different.
Whether it’s a house or a car, I’d rather buy direct from the seller than go through an Agent.
And especially so with houses.
You see, when i deal directly with the vendor selling their house, I get a level of co-operation far inexcess of that ever achievable through an Agent.
Example ” Why are they selling?”
Agent attitude – It’s irrelevant so dont ask and if you do, I’ll give you bulls#%^@ answer.
Vendor – “It’s because we are……”By building a relationship with the vendor, I can structure a compelling offer that meets all their wants and needs… it’s call negotiating a purchase / sale.
With an Agent, you just focus on price and terms and you then get them to negotiate for you.
Of course, there are times when I am happy for an Agent to do “my dirty work” for me because it’s a FREE service.
I always hunt the F.S.B.O. ads…. but remember dealing with them is VERY different to how you deal with Agents.
Originally posted by Brisbanite:Well, thanks for you reply, but I wonder if you’re a REA?
LOL. Me? I wish!
they just want a sale, any sale.Oh, for sure.
I’d bet that they are the reason WHY prices have come down…they just want sales and don’t care if their commission is slightly less. They are actively conditioning sellers to now expect less, because it’s money in the their bank to now say that it’s a buyer’s market.As I said in another post, something doesn’t have to actually happen for people to act like is happening – then because of that, it happens! If you get what I mean. (Propaganda is another word for it.)
I will get what I want for my property, I just have to be patient, which I am.Everyone likes to think that.
I wasn’t saying YOU were overpriced by the way – just that most on those private sites are so. I had a look at that site after I posted my reply to you and found it was still true.
I think that selling privately has an enormous way to go if the US is any guide. There, about 20% are private sales, whereas here, it’s only 1-2% …Yep, all I’m saying is a huge proportion of people don’t like to buy privately. Yet.
Plus, with the marketing power of the internet, like the site I’m listed on, REAs just seem too expensive to me…Well, marketing online is good – but only if people know to look there in the first place. Everyone online knows domain & realestate.com, but how many know the private sites? (Not many I’d guess. Again – yet.)
I would probably still advertise elsewhere myself – and direct people to the link. Just a note of interest… I emailed a lady on that site about some acreage yesterday. She was shocked to even get my query. I guess that shows that either:
1. She is overpriced.
2. She gets no interest for her property from the site.All the best with it anyway!
Allan.
Originally posted by manofaction:
<br>Whether it’s a house or a car, I’d rather buy direct from the seller than go through an Agent.Hey, no argument from me… I was just pointing out fewer people will see the property. (Not that it’s wrong to do it that way.) But that most people are planning the largest purchase of their lives and so are wary.
You see, when i deal directly with the vendor selling their house, I get a level of co-operation far inexcess of that ever achievable through an Agent.Yep, but you know this – many folks don’t. Hey, *I* don’t! As I think I said, if I saw two properties I liked, similar price, I’d go through the REA simply because they sell properties every day – the private guy might sell one in his entire life – and what if he got some paperwork wrong? (Just an example of how many people think.)
Allan.
people don’t trust real estate agents much – but they trust private sellers even less.It’s not personal, it’s just that there’s a certain “professionalism” that people expect to get from a REA, that people *believe* they won’t get from a private seller.
It’s statements like that, that lead me to wonder if you were a REA…
I’d say most private vendors know alot more and have more emotional attachment about their own property than any “professional” REA … about the good points and the bad.
I believe that a buyer, in a face to face meeting with a private vendor, they’d have more chance of spotting a fraud than with a “professional” REA who lives and dies by what he/she doesn’t say about a property, usually … the private vendor has far more riding on being truthful and would lose more face than the REA, and most buyers would know this, and have more chance of getting the truth about the property.
In fact, I think that if a private seller did intentionally put one over the buyer, when they bought, then they’d have a far better chance of legal redress. It’s kind of expected that the REA and it’s industry body would cleverly dismiss/deny a disgruntled buyers claims…it happens everyday.
When I read that book I mentioned in an earlier post on this thread, I was amazed at just how little training and experience, a “professional” REA needs to ply their trade! If more people where aware of that fact, they might think twice about letting them do the negotiating on their largest asset.
I emailed a lady on that site about some acreage yesterday. She was shocked to even get my query. I guess that shows that either:1. She is overpriced.
2. She gets no interest for her property from the site.I think thats refreshing!!! and it illustrates my point, earlier.
From that one email, you’ve established the ‘real’ situation that you can use to your advantage in a real negotiation.
Would you get that information from a “professional” REA????
No, you’d get a response that suits the REA … something like, “Yes, perhaps the vendors asking price is somewhat high, but there is considerable interest from quite a few others keen on the property, so we need to act quickly … I think I might be able to get that price down if you’d like to submit an offer…”
I know what version of ‘honest’ I’d prefer to believe…
Regarding my ad…I got 7, yes seven, emails with attached viruses within 24hrs of me putting up a for sale sign! Thanks to my AV s/ware, though, no harm was done.
Who else but “professional” REAs would show such interest and determination to foil private sellers … hope it wasn’t anyone here, mmm … ???
There is a cliche in legal circles that I’m sure you have heard “a person who represents himself on court has a fool for a client”
I feel much the same way about people who try to sell their own house. I have bought 2 houses off private vendors and both times I have been able to completly screw the vendor as they did not have anybody with any skills helping them with the negotiations.
I don’t care if you love or hate agents…you just have to admit that the good ones are experts in spinning a story.
Example:
I say to the vendor “why are you selling the house?” Vendore replys “I have two other houses and the bank is forcing me to sell one of them”…. I say great …I can do a quick settlement to help you but my price has just dropped by $25,000 and will fall by another $5,000 every 24 hours, whatdo you want to do?An agent would have spun some story about the owner looking for other opportunities or whatever….and not let on what was the true story. Plus an agent would have put the pressure back on me and not let me taken the upper hand in the negotaition process!!
BTW I’m not an agent and I don’t wish to be one but I always use them when selling and I dream of not using them when I’m buying (which tells you a lot when your think about who pays their bills)
I have bought 2 houses off private vendors and both times I have been able to completly screw the vendor as they did not have anybody with any skills helping them with the negotiations.You sound like a nice guy, NatR, NOT!
You may believe that you’re smart, and indeed be able to ‘screw’ unsuspecting and honest people, but you will one day be outsmarted, yourself …
For starters, you seem to draw the incorrect conclusion that because you have ‘screwed’ two private vendors, that all private vendors are the same…thats plain dumb, IMHO.
If you tried your version of negotiation ‘skills’ with me, I’d take reluctant pleasure in turning your obvious contempt for me back onto yourself … just as I am forced to derive what satisfaction I can from putting the many incompetent REAs that I’ve had the displeasure of having to deal with, back in their place in the food chain … bottom dwellers.
Most private vendors would be able to spot your ruthless and callous nature a mile away, and choose to sell at the same price to someone they simply liked better (if they had to sell)… and if they had any option at all…and you’d miss out on the bargain. Ethics does matter, and it pays better, and for longer…but I’m sure you know better and would disagree.
Can I look forward to an email virus from you, for daring to stare you and your type down?
Ethics does matter, and it pays better, and for longer…but I’m sure you know better and would disagree.Ethics and final negotiated price are two different things, you don’t have to be unethical to strike a bargain! Keep in mind I didn’t hold a gun to their head …all I did was wave a cheque in front of them…something most sellers actually want ! Maybe I’m missing something.
The mere fact you think that ethics and buying a house off somebody are related shows you really are a chicken about to walk into KFC.
I’m the buyer, you are the seller, I have the money and it is a depressed market…..where does the power lie?? If you can’t appreciate that, then my opening statement regarding the intelligence of your client appears to hold true.
Already you have shown that you can’t emotianlly distance yourself from the sales process…this will lead to further problems as you try to sell the place.
Please feel safe that I won’t send you an virus…..you appear to have enough problems on your plate as it is.
Already you have shown that you can’t emotianlly distance yourself from the sales process…this will lead to further problems as you try to sell the place.Here, we are not in a sales process…at all.
Though, as a person fundementally respectful of others and their plights, I reserve the right to emotionally distance myself from someone of the likes of you who can gloat that they can callously ‘screw’ people with whom they dare claim they have reached a ‘deal’…the devil’s MO.
As a seller, I can afford to ‘deal’ with someone who I determine has a mutual respect for me and the process…yeah, I can.
You also make too many generalisations regarding your assesment of the current market and of the power of a buyers’ hand holding a withered cheque before a sellers eyes … the seller has the final say (bank foreclosures, aside)…so I would question your ability to negotiate sucessfully with people not desperate to sell, like me. Perhaps you’re not as skilled a negotiator as you think? Perhaps you’re ‘best’ with the hard luck vendors.
I’ve read too many examples of the delight and empowerment had by dozens of sucessful private sellers to allow you to ever emotionally ‘get to me’…though I can see you’ve tried very hard.
Hope you don’t mind me feeding off your negativity, I thrive on proving people like you, and the common REA, wrong.
All I can say is you will be holding on to this property for a long time with views like you have. Do you really think that the other 99.9% of the sellers in the market have got it wrong by using agents? Everything you say and the way you say it just re-inforces my view on private vendors…..don’t be upset, the world needs more people like you.
Do you really think that the other 99.9% of the sellers in the market have got it wrong by using agents?No, I’ve never said that…where did that come from? I respect people’s right to choose, unlike you.
Whether you are ever capable of respecting people who exercises their right to choose to sell their own property or not … your opinions expressed here simply, don’t matter. Nor will it stop the tide of people willing to give it a go.
Just don’t be surprised when Australia follows the US where 20% somehow manage to negotiate their own sales, just fine, without the expensive cost and dubious benefits of using REAs.
the world needs more people like youyes, it’ll be a feeding frensy for sharks like you. Just don’t be surprised if some of the people you ‘deal’ with, when you ‘screw’ them over, resent you as much as the huge majority of people loathe and resent self-serving REAs.
This may come as a shock but I don’t need or want the people I buy property off to love me…I would prefer to have the extra money in my pocket. I think you will find that most buyers feel this way. In fact, I would feel that I had failed in my duty to strike the best deal for my familiy, who I beleive really do love me.
This “I will strike an honest deal with an honest person” faliacy that private sellers cling onto is what amuses and concerns me…somehow they all seem to think that its 1955 again, were all driving FJ holdens and the world is full of good hearted folks who actually want to pay too much for a property.
Originally posted by Nat R:Now I’m getting annoyed … I only started this thread to get some information about good website, and I end up having to say this:
To Nat R, and others…
You can attempt to justify, as much as you like, the reasons behind your actions when you delibrately set out to take advantage of people less fortunate or intelligent than you … or to ‘screw’ them out of their equally hard earnt money.
From memory, the Trade Practices Act (1974) classes such activity or trade as “unconscionable conduct”. Each breaches can result in penalties of up to $40,000 for an individual or up to $200,000 for a corporation.
If you have ever taken advantage of someone due to:
- mental incapacity
- lack of commercial experience or understanding
- lack of spoken or written english comprehension
- lack of education
- undue influence or pressure
old age
…and from what you have said Nat R,
I have bought 2 houses off private vendors and both times I have been able to completly screw the vendor as they did not have anybody with any skills helping them with the negotiations.it sounds like you have confessed as much … then you have most likely breached the TPA!!!! at least twice.
From my understanding, Society does not like or approve of people like you (if true) and seeks to protect it’s more vunerable people despite your apparent and expressed incapacity to understand why society wants fair deals between parties.
… are we still amused or concerned?
An astute person whose job it is to troll these types of web sites, could choose to easily track individuals like you down and investigate each and every deal you have ever done … and it could cost you, and your family dearly.
You could also be comprehensively sued by the aggreived party if they become sufficiently p***ed of with you…and it does happen, particularly when relatives become aware of unconscionable conduct.
Have your deals factored for such contingencies?
I’d summize that it is you, that’s either a very brave person, or the fool!
You are really out there aren’t you…for a start I was the consumer (as in I bought the houses) so the Trade Pactices Act protects me.
As for somebody trolling a web site, tracking me down and then prosocuting me for negotiating $25,000 off the price of a house….seriously…you have been reading too many conspiracy books.
As I stated (and you fail to understand) all I did was to position the negotiations so that I had a better bargaining position than they did….if they had used an agent I doubt I would have got to that position. Keep in mind they freely told me what their position was upfront.
In fact in both instances the vendors were small time ‘developers’ who had bought a place thinking they could turn a quick profit. So by your resoning they were the sharks …not me.
By offering $25,000 less than asking price to somebody selling a house I’m not breaking any laws….lets face it a house is only worth what somebody will pay and I was the best price. How can you honestly sit here and say I ripped them off? From your post it would appear that a buyer is not allowed to enter into negotiations with a private seller as then the buyer would be deemed to be taking advantage of the vendor and their lack of education and/or understanding.
That may go a long way to explaining why so few private vendor sales are succesful…if buyers are banned from offering a lower price then many buyers would avoid that house an look at agent listed properties where negotiaions are welcome if not encouraged.
I must thank you for one thing….having had an insight into your thinking I will be extra careful the next time I buy from a private vendor, they may end up stalking me or threatening my person as they appear to be from a part of society that is a real worry for us sane folk.
As I pointed out above you appear to be the typical example of somebody who sells their own property…you have a misplaced trust in people, you have a complete misunderstanding of the law and how it is applied and you have very little commercial sense.
If you really are such a great ‘deal do-er” why don’t you go to an agent and strike a deal where he gets no commision until a certain price is reached and then shares in the profit amount above that level….you can’t lose !!
Hi Brisbanite
I was really interested in your question as selling privately is not something I had considered seriously myself, but have looked at buying privately. If this thread gets back on track, I would be interested in some of the answers.
Everyone does things their own way. Stick to what you can live with and let others live their way.
Calder[elf]this is an old age debate that can never be solved as you will never know if you would have done better with an agent. I agree with the earlier comment that the general public doesn’t like to deal with the owner direct. There is nothing in it for the buyer so why not go to a property where they get the benefits and protection of buying through an agent? Typically private sales are homes that have been appraised by an owner, the owner thinks it is appraised too low, hence the they put it on the market at an over inflated price.This is where the sharp buyers move in on a stale property and eventually get it at a discount. If you are very clued in to as to what your property is worth and you market it professionally and can negoiate well I think you could achieve the same results as an agent – ‘could’ because you will never know. I do think people tend to focus too much on screwing the real estate agent for a % of commission rather than focussing on getting the best sales deal.
Extensive list of ‘Off The Plan’ property available for sale in Perth.John – 0419 198 856
also to get back on topic re the websites, as another poster said, there are really only two websites that are worth your time and effort – domain and realestate.com. The latter is for the reserve of REA’s. The REIWA website also attracts some decent traffic for WA buyers (and I assume these sites exist for other states?) but personally I think its past its use by date. Once again its just for REA’s anyway.
Extensive list of ‘Off The Plan’ property available for sale in Perth.John – 0419 198 856
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