Hi
Anyone got any info on how to get started Bird-Dogging? Trying to earn some money to fund a deposit on a property. Is it worth all the trouble?
Cheers
What on earth is Bird-Dogging?
Bird dogging is +ve CF property spotting on behalf of others (for a fee of course). Westan and MiniMogul do it in NZ, and there are others out there.
FlyHigh [cap]
Hi there,
re: is it worth all the trouble?
Hmmmm hard to answer. I said to my business partner that I’d do it as long as it was either at least a) fun or b) profitable.
and nearly a year later, i’m still doing it. The more deals you do the easier it gets, like with anything, because you have a system and a team of people who are used to the way you work.
Also you gain integrity and word of mouth and you get more clients and more deals over the line and more reputation and more clients and… so on.!
Our trouble at the moment is finding enough deals for the amount of people we have and maintaining our high standard of getting the best deals we can, so we have been trying to work on growing the team to get more deals and trying different things out.
cheers-
Minijoy to the world
Hi
I’m glad you asked the question as i am embarking on what I expect to be challenging but fun and profitable at the same time.
As per other posts it seems to me about establishing yourself with a good name and a reputation to get deals over the line.
I would also appreciate any information/help to develop myself in Bird dogging
Cheers
KelKelvin J Brennan
Basically this is what I would reckon.
1) talk to a property lawyer and discuss what you want to do and how you want to do it legally which protects you and your client, and figure out the best way to do it legally and get documents drawn up – whether that be assigning, deed of nomination, signing up ‘as agent’, disclaimers, and ABN etc
or you might decide to find deals and then sign them up in the client’s name directly.2) get clients
3) get deals your clients wantNo good trying to get deals without clients, waste of energy – and won’t help your cause with agents being taken seriously if you tie them up but don’t get them over the line
no good trying to get deals your clients don’t want
so figure out how to attract clients and what they want and go get ’em.
Know your stuff and do ten times the amount of research you would for yourself.
remember you are working for your client first and yourself second and the real estate agent NOT! if you forget this and put yourself before the client you will end up pushing a deal they didn’t want or talking them in to it and you will get the results of that later which won’t be good (karma, or worse, you’ll get sued or whatever)
good luck
cheers-
Minijoy to the world
Buyers Agent is the other term for “birddogging”, and the way each structures their approach to finding properties is different and unique.
The bigger the project the more risky for each party concerned,so maybe start small with a few basic units or townhouses as the on cost for each is smaller.
The principles are the same and if you are honest and deal with people with utmost integrity, you will end up with the same great name in the industry as Minimogul has.
Her expertise is mainly offshore, and her skills are paramount in getting those elusive gems. Whatever transpires, most people feel more comfortable dealing with a BA or birddog if they have several IP’s themselves and are successful investors.
Do you have your own IP’s yet? Good idea to see what those you aspire to become like actually have as their background and experience, and model your actions to emulate these.
Good Luck in what you hope to do.
DD
Don’t sweat the small stuff,and it’s all small stuff!!
Buyers’ Agent is NOT another term for birddogging.
Buyer’s Agents are licensed real estate agents who work on behalf of buyers rather than sellers.
Birddogging remains illegal in Australia in all states.
Just check the real estate laws – they are pretty clear on the matter.
Cheers,
Aceyducey
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice, there is.– Jan L.A. van de Snepscheut
Hi Acey
i don’t think the information you have provided is correct, i suggest demps checks his own State laws as not all states are the same.
Regards westan
I live in New Zealand and for a fee find cash positive deals there, email me at [email protected] to join our database
Yep I agree, ‘definitions’ as per the law are a complex thing and so really the only person that can tell you if what you want to do and the way you want to do it and where you want to do it is legal or not is a smart and clued up property lawyer in the state where you are going to be bird-dogging.
I certainly don’t have a clue about every law everywhere but I do know that the way I bird-dog properties in NZ is very much legal, and we have worked with many lawyers on our team to draft up the appropriate documents for the way we do business.
Also the fact that we have got so many deals over the line (probably around 50 this year or so) and in the process have dealt with so many vendor’s solicitors all over the country means that many lawyers have dealt with us and inspected the way we do it from a vendor’s point of view. If it wasn’t fully kosher we wouldn’t be still in business and have a great reputation with lots of repeat business, basicallyand one final thought, if you want to do something that *most people* don’t do or understand, you will find that *most people* will tell you it can’t be done, is illegal, ‘if it wasn’t, why aren’t more people doing it?’ kind of arguments. But you have to find the professional can-do people that say it can be done, legally, and this is how. Of course those people are thin on the ground, but you can find them.
that’s basically the plight of the entrepreneur in any genre, going against the *most people think…* thing. But that’s where the opportunities are.
something to ponder anyway
joy to the world
Fortunately I am an entrepreneur & do investigate these things.
That’s how come both the companies I’ve founded this year do NOT property spot (nothing to do with house at all actually, though they do a form of property development[biggrin]).
NZ is NOT Australia, no matter how often you repeat it Minimogul
Cheers,
Aceyducey
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice, there is.– Jan L.A. van de Snepscheut
I think its a great idea demps, perfect for busy people like me who doesnt have the time to look for +CF properties herself!
You could always do it just for family and friends (word of mouth is a good thing) and sort of do it as a cash under the counter job.
Just have all your contacts to refer people to ie solicitor, bank, builder, RE agent etc that way you can just be a referral
service rather than a bird dogger!good luck!
“You cant achieve anything if you dont try first”
Trisha[biggrin]
trisha,
‘cash under the counter’
Are you advocating breaking the law?
Hmm – that’s one of the reasons I have big problems with people who want to be ‘birddogs’….
They don’t tend to know the laws – or if they do they try to slip through loopholes. They don’t have a great deal of investing or property experience (or they wouldn’t need to go ‘birddogging’ & they don’t take out professional indemnity insurance cause they’re not entitled to it – hence no protection for the poor sucker trusting their judgement in property purchases!
Dodgy, dodgy, dodgy all the way down the line.
As for being a referral agency, well most people give away good referrals on forums for free.
Cheers,
Aceyducey
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice, there is.– Jan L.A. van de Snepscheut
Acey,
in the end it comes down to you and I being different in our fields of expertise. Mine includes bird-dogging and NZ investing. It’s your life and you can fill your time with whatever ‘big problems’ you like.
All I know is that I do the best I can, operate on full disclosure between my business partner and I and also with our clients, and can sleep at night. I come on the forums for fun and to try and answer some questions and give out some advice about things that I am knowledgeable about.
Do you know anything about Karma? It’s just that you may in the future have to experience someone telling *you* to stop saying something you never said..or saying publicly ‘dodgy dodgy dodgy all the way down the line’ about *you* and your chosen business.
We really do reap what we sew and you don’t have to be a Xtian, Bhuddist or anything for this to be true. It’s universal law! So. Just so you know.
cheers-
miniMinimogul
You go girl!
I have thoroughly enjoyed reading this posting and one thing is for sure. Karma is karma baby, and it DOES bite you on the bum when you are not looking.
My understanding is a Bird Dog hunts for deals for you.I have had Buyers Agents do the same thing.That too has worked great for me.
I do not agree with the cash under the counter comment.
However if you receive a finders fee for scoring a property for someone, the money is declared, the GST is paid, where is the problem? All you are technically is a type of consultant
marieall
exactly – like a consultant, or information broker. We are not making investment decisions for people, but we do help clients find out the information they need to be able to *make* those investment decisions.
Re cash under the counter,
All my businesses have legit records and tax returns and generate tax invoices for services with the appropriate ABNs an ACNs and all that kind of thing. GST has it’s own set of rules and criteria and I would advise getting your accountant to answer the questions such as 1) do I need to use GST now or in the future 2) understanding the paperwork involved and the schedules, compliance etc etc 3) making a business decision as to how to run your business based on the above plus projected income, time frames, tax position, GST being a nightmare, etc etc etcall that stuff
joy to the world
Quote:Originally posted by Aceyducey:[/ihi[blink][confused2]hi, this is the 1st time on the forum and bird doggind was something i thought i might add into my investing strategy. BUT now after reading all this, i’m not so sure.. i am aware of what a buyers agent does however if you are only sourcing properties for someone, how can this be illegal or under handed.if they ask for assistance you assist and want to pay you for the help….what is the problem and who’s business would that be???? thanks glenn[biggrin]
I’d definetly ‘research’ it for your relevant state..
The last thing you’d want to do is ‘source’ an IP for a client that turns into a big problem (as they say, nothings a problem till its a problem).
As for DD’s post, i agree i’d prefer doing business with someone who also holds IP’s (hopefully in the area they’re recommending- a la Westan, DD and Mini)this way, again hopefully, they’ve made good contacts and gone through the whole process several times prior.
REDWING
“Money is a currency, like electricity and it requires momentum to make it Effective”
Count The Currency With This Online Positive Cashflow CalculatorAcey, I would offer that you join our mailing list. So NOt!! to sell you deals in nz – Gahd knows we can’t keep up with demand as it is, – but just so that you would perhaps have a better understanding of what we do and how we do it. like the specifics. To show you how above board, legally compliant and legit it is, to see the work we do behind the scenes in presentation, information supplied, research, etc – just to ‘check it out’ before you knock it.
Do your ‘due diligence’ on us, in other words.
Perhaps your answer is that you couldn’t be bothered as you have already dismissed it out of hand, and so be it, but – the offer is there.“how can this be illegal or under handed”
There are as many ways to break the law as there are laws, I guess. I can’t speak for anyone else in the whole world. I can only speak for myself. So I have to rebut sweeping statement that by implication include me, even if I can’t defend anyone else – I’m not in control of the actions of anyone but myself.Like in all walks of life there will be good and bad. The same would hold true for Bird-dogging I guess.
However what I know is that Mini & Castledreamer are great people to do business with, and get my tick of approval after the several properties I’ve purchased via them.
Integrity certainly is their middle name.
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