Someone said (not sure who it was):
“I know of two ‘spruikers’ who tell people not to negative gear (one even makes you yell it out).”
That is SO funny! I mean, the thing is, many of the people who became property millionaires quickly over the last couple of years were people who had one or two crappy terraces in the middle of sydney (and other capitals). Almost overnight they achieved huge gains. I am sure now, they are not slapping themselves upside the head because they were only achieving a 4% yield… not when they bought that IP in St. Peters or leichhardt for 375k in 1998, that they then sold it in 2002 for >$1 million.
Positive gearing is great, if you can do it. But it’s only ONE method. I reckon the whole “negative gearing is for fools” industry, needs a big rethink in retrospect viewing of the boom. Overnight millionaires didn’t need seminars to help them make those gains. Anyone who had a few IP’s in major capitals and flogged ’em off in the peak of the boom would pretty much be a net millionaire now. I am sure they are happy with their method.
kay henry
I think that a lot of people make the mistake not by questioning if they should pay for a seminar. They make the mistake that if it’s free or $?k a day then they will FINALLY DISCOVER the one part they believe they need to find the answer to all there investing problems. For me it’s not about the dollar. It’s about what I do with my dollars worth. Bernie you nailed it in one. Marc, if I drive at the speed of light and turn my car lights on, will they work?
Cheers,
Gatsby!You may travel at the speed of light but relative to some point deemed to be stationary. Your light globe is stationary relative to the photons so they will still go.
Yet if Einstein is to be beleived, you cannot go any faster than speed of light so the answer should be no.
Yet Relativity and quantum phisics are at loggerhaeds and we know that thought can go faster than light, so… somthing to think about that goold old Einstain did not.
[blush2]HuluruMay God prosper you always.[biggrin]
MarcOriginally posted by kay henry:I started reading an e-book today- why not, I thought. It started off with “you were born to be rich…” That stuff just does not interest me. I have been watching the kids from Russia dying, further conflict in Iraq, 100000 people dying from genocide in Sudan, etc etc… an entitlement of being born rich just isn’t where my ideology is coming from. It makes no difference to me whether people have money or not. It’s just words.
kay henryHey Kay I read that ebook last week. I thought hmm.
My thought for my own situation is if I can become more wealthy, I can help more people. INCLUDING my own family.
If you are just getting wealthy for it’s own sake then what’s the point?
Lucifer
Seems you want to be a billionaire since you are talking on the Bill Gates level. Take a dose of reality. It’s not going to happen. And before you get all uptight, don’t take it the wrong way. You have the power to create wealth – no question of it. Yes, we all have big dreams, but a certain amount of realism helps us to be sensible about what we can achieve.
Being a billionaire is akin to being one of the best sportsmen, actors or singers in the world. How many achieve that? They are a select few. You don’t have to be one of them to achieve good things. You can continue to aspire to be very, very rich, but I suggest you are setting yourself up for disappointment. Of course, there is a slight chance you may turn out to be another Bill Gates – that’s possible.
You are right though. I don’t need more and more to satisfy an insatiable need to be as rich as I can. A sustainable level of wealth to live a lifestyle to suit me is all I need.
Greed is good? You may want to check out the movie “Wall Street” from 1987 if you haven’t already seen it.
Wez.
Wez,
I’m glad you mentioned that movie. I’ve been wanting to raise something along those lines. The 1980’s was all about showy wealth, for those who had it- the days of Bondy, Skase, Singo.. all of those cigar-puffing, gold-ring wearing fellows. I think the difference in 2004 (and I am getting onto the topic) is that someone (kiyosaki probably- he seems to be the seminar source guy) decided that because the “greed is good” (all $$ for me, none for you) days were over, that they would add in a kind of “spiritual” element to the rich goal. Hence the “give it back” aspect of the new seminars. I still think it’s all about marketing. I think the books say “if you are richer, you can do more from the community”.
In Australia, the less wealthy give .6% of income to charity, whereas the more wealthy give .4% of charity. Who knows? When the rich read the “give it back” books, then maybe they’ll give back more? Somehow, I don’t think Australia’s richest people are sitting around reading Kiyosaki, however.
So my point is, there’s a form of new marketing around, I reckon- and people are picking up on that. Now, people say “I MUST be wealthy because then I can be a better person in society and give more and make the world a better place.” It’s an interesting discourse.
kay henry
[biggrin][biggrin][biggrin][biggrin][biggrin]
Poor is good, spiritual, generous, popular…
Rich is bad, greedy, materialist, scrooge, hated…
Now that is a novel thought, where did I hear that before [confused2].
What is your source Kay? … the movie Titanic?May God prosper you always.[biggrin]
MarcWez, you nailed it this time in more ways than one.
You “accuse” Lucifer to think at Bill Gates’ level.
Bingo !! That is exactly what I am talking about.
How can you succeed if you think small? The short answer is you cannot.
Aim at the Sun and you may get off the ground. “Be realistic” is guaranteed to make you a loser.
Do you think that Helen Keller was realistic?
Was Bill Gates “realistic”?
What about Harvey Norman? He should have remained an employee and have a “secure” future.
I am sure Steve should have taken a dose of reality and a chill pill on top, stop dreaming and get down to earth, and do what God intended you to do, to do tax returns for your customers you should be grateful come to you… and work hard for some more 40 years and retire on $500 or perhaps $600 a week. You don’t need more!There are two things mixed up in this debate, as usual this always happens.
One is the surfacing of some people’s anti-values that make them say to whoever dares to talk about success that “You are greedy” that is criticising the GOAL, in this case prosperity. Very wrong in my opinion to criticise other peoples goals on our own values.The other topic much more interesting is the method necessary to reach success, be it prosperity or success as a musician, painter writer singer of stamp collector. The method is THINK BIG and act accordingly. The problem is that in order to think higher than your ankles one needs to rid oneself of the glass ceiling placed on top of us by our environment, mum and dad, teachers, mates priests and others all compete to tell us what is best for us, take a reality check, be humble, be content.
It’s a pity. Only God knows how many talents lay buried in the farm by fearful servants who listen to their peers telling them “take a dose of reality mate, it ain’t going to happen”. This dream busters, should realise that the only reason they are doing so is to justify their own inaction. I say if you want to be mediocre, that is your business, but dont tell otehrs they should be mediocre too because that is your reality.
I say to whoever is listening to be the most you can, a billionaire if you can, a Picasso, a Luis Armstrong, be the best of the best, and shake off all those dream busters that tell you it is wrong to have aspiration, dreams and plans, they are like the crabs in the basket pulling you down at their level just because they cannot see you succeed, they hate it.
I say HAVE WILD PLANS, have vast dreams, plan to invent a method to split water into H2 and O2 efficiently, Plan to own 20000 properties in 20 countries, dream to run 100 meters in 8.9 second, to explore Venus on a space ship, and to write 50 best sellers.
Matthew 25:14 For it is just like a man about to go on a journey, who called his own slaves and entrusted his possessions to them. 15 To one he gave five talents, to another, two, and to another, one, each according to his own ability; and he went on his journey. 16 Immediately the one who had received the five talents went and traded with them, and gained five more talents. 17 In the same manner the one who had received the two talents gained two more. 18 But he who received the one talent went away, and dug a hole in the ground and hid his master’s money. 19 Now after a long time the master of those slaves came and settled accounts with them. 20 The one who had received the five talents came up and brought five more talents, saying, “Master, you entrusted five talents to me. See, I have gained five more talents.’ 21 His master said to him, “Well done, good and faithful slave. You were faithful with a few things, I will put you in charge of many things; enter into the joy of your master.’ 22 Also the one who had received the two talents came up and said, “Master, you entrusted two talents to me. See, I have gained two more talents.’ 23 His master said to him, “Well done, good and faithful slave. You were faithful with a few things, I will put you in charge of many things; enter into the joy of your master.’ 24 And the one also who had received the one talent came up and said, “Master, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you did not sow and gathering where you scattered no seed. 25 “And I was afraid, and went away and hid your talent in the ground. See, you have what is yours.’ 26 But his master answered and said to him, “You wicked, lazy slave, you knew that I reap where I did not sow and gather where I scattered no seed. 27 “Then you ought to have put my money in the bank, and on my arrival I would have received my money back with interest. 28 “Therefore take away the talent from him, and give it to the one who has the ten talents.’ 29 For to everyone who has, more shall be given, and he will have an abundance; but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away. 30 Throw out the worthless slave into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
May God prosper you always.[biggrin]
MarcMarc, all I can say is WOW !!!
Well, Some people here just don’t get it…. they criticise people for doing well, then if those people show any chaitable tendancies, oh.. it must because they think it’s trendy now…..
Charity is something that comes from the heart…. You doing it willingly…
Folks this is really…. [offtopic] for here….
High Priced Seminar – Depends on what some people call High Priced ???
Some are worth, yes, and quite a few are not….. ALL are NO USE, if you DO NOTHING…..
If you do any study on the very wealthy, you will find one thing… it is who they want to be, as they go along the way…… Look at Ted Turner…. did he have to give away his massive wealth… no way…. but he chose to…..
Oh No… I’m becoming filthy rich [ohno]… Never mind, it’s ok, I can afford a shower…. [angel][biggrin]
Marc
Thanks for blowing everything out of proportion.[confused2]
Anyone with any objectivity can see what you infer is nowhere near what I said. You have really put your own spin on it.
But if you want to believe it is realistic to run 100 metres in 8.9 secs, you’ll be in for a long wait to see that come to fruition. I suppose that makes me a killjoy for believing it will never happen?
Wez.
HOW LOW CAN WE GO?
Using a sophisticated mathematical model, University of Montreal exercise physiologist Francois Peronnet and colleague Guy Thibault predicted in 1989 what the world records would be in future years for various races. So far, they’ve proven pretty accurate.
CURRENT PROJECTED WORLD RECORD
RACE WORLD RECORD 2000 2028 2040
100 meters (seconds) 9.78 9.74 9.57 9.49
200 meters (seconds) 19.32 19.53 19.10 18.92
400 meters (seconds) 43.18 43.44 42.12 41.59
800 meters 1:41.11 1:39.88 1:36.18 1:34.71
Mile 3:43.13 3:41.96 3:33.29 3:29.84
Source: Journal of the American Physiological Society, 1989IT is disappointing that you miss the point by so much, even more disappointing from you Monopoly.
Before 1968 there was an army of doctors, physicist and psychologist who gave speeches about the so called 10 second barrier, and they had all irrefutable proof to say that it was impossible for the human body to go any faster than 10 second for 100 meters.
This professors and self appointed experts planted in the world athletes the seed of defeat. “It is not possible, be realistic” was the seed that kept all athletes running over 10 seconds. All but one, Jim Haines did not listen to morons and in 1968 broke the so called barrier running 100m in 9.9 seconds.
What happened next was amazing. All of a sudden the myth dissipated, the bull dust told for decades about the human limit lost its power and the MENTAL barrier of the 10 second gone from the world athletes mind, allowed many after Jim Haines to run also 9.9 in a matter of months after his official accomplishment in the Mexico Olympics.
What does this tell you?
That WE put the limit to our achievements, and what we call reasonable and realistic, is a mental fence to keep us in our comfort zone.
Challenge your comfort zone if you want to achieve something in life.Unless you are different and think different you will just be part of the crowd.
Nothing wrong with that, but perhaps pointing fingers to people who think different from the masses is not very clever, nor original.
Most achievers do not fit the average.May God prosper you always.[biggrin]
MarcIT is disappointing that you miss the point by so much, even more disappointing from you Monopoly.
And what point is that EXACTLY Marc???
No actually spare me, I am not interested in the speed of light, the force from within or the powers that be; all I am concerned with is healthy debate. However, as it currently stands, it appears that this thread has been blown way out of proportion, pure and simple!!!
Wez gave his opinion, others their, and you above all, have made yourself clear. I do not disagree wholeheartedly, nor do I entirely share your views; but such is the nature of differentiation between individuals!!!
Having said all that, I feel it would be in everyone’s best interest to MOVE ON!!!
Cheers,
Jo
Hello all,
Well, an interesting read, even though IMHO, some contributors are in danger of disappearing up their own arse with such patronising undertones that come through at times.
How some can assume to know so much about others simply through reading a post on a web forum is beyond me. But, horses for courses, and if those people want to be the Obi Wan Kenobi of PI.Com, so be it and good luck to them.For what it’s worth, athletes can only go so fast until they need artificial help. When I was working mainly as a sports journalist, I was mixing with some of Australia’s top sprinters… some walked away from athletics because teh use of performance enhancing drugs was so widespread on the global scene, and even here at home… some friends of mine (one of them a Commonwealth Games silver medallist) reckon 90% of top sprinters are on “something” illegal. Sorry to be realistic…
I’m a pretty simple bloke, I’m just out there having a crack, working hard and doing the best I can. I treat others well and with respect, while also calling a spade a spade when I see the need. I’m quite certain my approach to life is helping to slowly make me wealthy … I’m happier than I’ve ever been, even if I’m not as rich as Bill Gates, and I know that when I think I have “enough”, I won’t think of myself as mediocre because I didn’t strive for “more”.
At the same time, I think that while money isn’t everything, we would all acknowledge that it’s helpful in assisting us towards certain goals, otherwise we wouldn’t be on a property investing website would we?
My only philosophical thing to contribute is “Do or do not do… there is no try.” That’s from Yoda in a Star Wars flick.
Cheers
rMarc,
If you are wondering where my post (to Wez) and to which you replied, stating your disappoint in my missing your point, has gone. I deleted it. I felt that perhaps it may have been read (as you obviously did) badly.
You’re an educated man Marc, and as such I know that you will agree, that every person is entitled to his or her opinion, regardless of relevance to, or value to others. Therefore, let’s live and let live hey??? Accept that not all people will “get” our point, no matter how much we endeavour to explain it, because when all is said and done (and you have done plenty of saying…LOL) people will always comprehend that which they are accustomed to; and that in itself highlights the beauty and uniqueness we all posess within!!!
Cheers,
Jo
Hi all, I have read every page of this thread and nowhere have I seen anyone think of what the seminar presenter has to sacrifice to do such a presentation.
Do you think the presenter just thinks “Hey, I think I’ll do a seminar today and make myself a heap of money.” Think again. There is months of planning, organisation, and rehearsals way before any seminar day comes around. And what happens to all the bargains which the presenter has missed in the market place because he was too busy organising the seminar? He would most likely have been loads richer if he had forgotten the seminar and just stuck to investing by himself.
One reason a presenter may do seminars, and charge a fairly high fee is to demonstrate to his lenders that he has a good regular income and is not totally reliant on Capital Gains for his income as this may be quite variable.
Another reason for a high fee, is that he cannot teach everyone, in all places at the same time. He must select key areas to produce his seminars where the teaching would do the most good.
Seminars are not just one person affairs. There are also caterers, function managers, sound and camera technicians etc. They all want payment for their services and are not going to work for free.
The presenter also wishes to impart some knowledge to you to help you on your way to financial freedom. How effective would the information be if he gave it all to everyone for free. “Pearls to Swine” rings a bell in my mind.
Marc- Matthew 25: 14-30 is one of my favourite Bible texts. Every time I read it, my mind explores it a different way each time.
Off my soapy box now, sorry guys, but I do feel better now.[biggrin]
If you want to get out of a hole, first stop digging.
Go to seminars with an open mind. If you only pick up one additional thing, the seminar has paid for itself.
We did get off topic there for a while.
Brenda, you make some good points re expenses, prep and so on. However, I reiterate we need to drop this idea that information has to be expensive to be worth anything.
Following are some quotes from Alexander Elder directed to share traders, but they could apply equally to property investors. He is highly respected in the field of share trading.
“My second rule is to avoid very expensive services, be they books, advisory letters, or seminars. A $200 newsletter is likely to be a better value than a $2,000 one, and a $500 seminar a better value than a $5,000 one. Merchants of super-expensive products sell an implicit promise of “the keys to the kingdom.”
“An obscene price is a marketing gimmick that conveys a subliminal message that the service is magic. There is no magic – no-one can deliver on that promise. A relatively inexpensive service is a bargain when it’s good, and a cheap loss when it isn’t.”
“People want to believe in magic, and if that magic can also save them from working and thinking, they gladly pay good money for it.”This is well put. Having spent time in share trading circles I know this to be the case. I have seen it in action.
Wez.
“People want to believe in magic, and if that magic can also save them from working and thinking, they gladly pay good money for it.”
The above is certainly true… and it is equaly true when refered to what we beleive.
“People want to confirm their excuses and anti-values, and if that can save them from working and thinking, they gladly fight for such bias confirmation untill the very end.”
May God prosper you always.[biggrin]
Marceye b4 eeeee except after ceee
Originally posted by wezwaz:We did get off topic there for a while.
Brenda, you make some good points re expenses, prep and so on. However, I reiterate we need to drop this idea that information has to be expensive to be worth anything.
Following are some quotes from Alexander Elder directed to share traders, but they could apply equally to property investors. He is highly respected in the field of share trading.
“My second rule is to avoid very expensive services, be they books, advisory letters, or seminars. A $200 newsletter is likely to be a better value than a $2,000 one, and a $500 seminar a better value than a $5,000 one. Merchants of super-expensive products sell an implicit promise of “the keys to the kingdom.”
“An obscene price is a marketing gimmick that conveys a subliminal message that the service is magic. There is no magic – no-one can deliver on that promise. A relatively inexpensive service is a bargain when it’s good, and a cheap loss when it isn’t.”
“People want to believe in magic, and if that magic can also save them from working and thinking, they gladly pay good money for it.”This is well put. Having spent time in share trading circles I know this to be the case. I have seen it in action.
Wez.
The most valuable information I ever received about trading was for free…likewise, the stuff I have learned about property investing (though largely untested at this stage) was for free as well…from people like you all who give information so generously.
I return the favour when and where I can. (someday I will finish my excuse for a website)
Cheers
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