Marc,
I am saying I am familiar with the ideas you are pontificating. It doesn’t mean I agree with them. These ideas about subconscious and illness, wealth etc, have been around at least since the 1980’s and a heap of books were written around them- sheesh, I don’t live in a vaccuum. But just like any idea, they don’t represent “truth” to me- just another thing to see people writing down. There’s nothing new under the sun.
I started reading an e-book today- why not, I thought. It started off with “you were born to be rich…” That stuff just does not interest me. I have been watching the kids from Russia dying, further conflict in Iraq, 100000 people dying from genocide in Sudan, etc etc… an entitlement of being born rich just isn’t where my ideology is coming from. It makes no difference to me whether people have money or not. It’s just words.
I know you believe in what you say. We all believe in what we say or we wouldn’t say it. However, we read many things. We don’t take up everything as the philosophy of life or the definitive way to think.
kay henry
Pelican
Good point about giving a breakdown of costs and profit when running a seminar – maybe presenters could pick up on this.
Kay
I agree that books can say just as much and probably more than a seminar, at much less damage to our bank balance. As I said there are no secrets. That’s just marketing tripe from presenters to suck us in.
Anyone
I’m still not getting a sound reason why the scenario is:
100 x $5,000 = $500,000 less a few expenses = helluva lot of money for a few days work. $500,000 x 6 (per year) = $3,000,000 = very healthy return for the year for what amounts to a grand total of maybe 12 days in presentations. Why would you bother investing? Of course, you always need somewhere to channel the profits.
Why not 100 x $500 = $50,000 leading to $300,000 gross per year? Is that not a huge year by charging a more reasonable price for seminars?
If you still think expensive seminars are a must, I suggest you need to rethink. Maybe you are new to the world of investment or a bit “green” in general. This is not meant as an insult. I have been there (when I thought like that), but if we continue falling over ourselves in throwing money at all these presenters, they continue laughing all the way to the bank.
Think about different ways to get your education. If you do your research and you really think a seminar will be valuable, fine. But don’t continually run from one to the next thinking you will find some brilliant new secret. I will continue alerting people about expensive seminars because I don’t believe the motives are always pure.
Wez.
Wez,
Very well put, I think some people do seem to get “addicted” to seminars, without really thinking about what they are doing…..
Just as some people get addicted to one way of investing only……….
Horses for courses……
Wezwaz, so you think 3 millions a year is too much and the guy should be content with 300,000.
Why?You don’t give one solitary plausible reason but for your own mindset that 3 millions is too much. I think it is OK …[confused2]
If the person is giving value for money, he should be earning it, that and more. If he is not, (and according to others the value wasn’t there) then even 300k is too much, but not because we feel so but because it is taking without giving.
My wife charges $350 for a consultation that may go for 15 minutes. She sees a lot of patients a day, take away 4 holidays a year, and work out how much she earns. Do you think it is too much? Should I tell her you said so?[biggrin]
May God prosper you always.[biggrin]
MarcIs she charging too much? Depends on what she’s doing Marck. Is she removing cancers? Or is she doing lip implants so movie stars can look like this: :+(|)
There are lots of people I think are overpaid- pro basketballers in America… actors in America.. oil barons in saudi arabia… the royal family in England.
Childcarers in Australia, nurses and teachers, are some of the lowest paid occupations, and yet they have huge responsibility for caring for others’ lives. Sometimes it would be good if the work fitted the payment.
Sorry for being off-topic, wezwaz.
kay henry
So cancer is OK, fat lips is not OK.[blink]
Kay you disappoint me. The money we earn is the result of the value we add, and not the result of some evil unjust irresistible force.
Can we dictate which is the “right” value and which the “wrong”. You can try, but other tried before you, the kings, the communist, the dictators, and the pontiffs of this world have unleashed armies of police for such purpose without much result.
Add value to people’s life and you will get paid accordingly, be it removing a cancer or removing a physical or mental handicap. How much is it worth for you or someone else to have his financial blueprint altered from “$100,000 a year is too much” to “$100,000 a week is cool”?
I say fifty fifty for the first year is just fine with me.[cap]
PS
Why do you use the word “pontificate”, when you refer to my post? it has a clear derogatory component.May God prosper you always.[biggrin]
Marci reckon its very difficult to say that someone earns too much (unless they do so illegally). sportspeople, musicians etc earns heaps but they spend heaps and the wheels keep turning. if i spend too much time thinking about the inefficent allocation of money then i will go crazy. there are millions of cases where it could be argued that one person gets paid too much and the other gets paid too little.
as a trader i like to believe in the market. i would hope that if enuf people think that henry kaye charges too much money and they get ripped off then the next guy who tries to do the same will not get the same kind of response. these industries are cyclical and people make money when the going is good. it wont be long before the wealth creation industry goes into a lull – just like anything else.
the best thing i can do is be a alert consumer. if you think something is a rip off tell all you friends and dont hand over you money. jenmans of this world are merely a reaction against the proliferation of white toothed, smiley srukers.
marc 1 – i must say you do get very defensive when someone alludes to the idea that wealth and virtue are somehow not directly related. maybe you are planning a few simnars yourself. what do you intend to charge???
the idea that money, or the want of money, is a little evil surely is not that surprising. people do crazy things to get a few bucks (i have) – do you acknowledge that??? if you do then you will also recognise that the more we have the more we want and the process continues to the point that we just want more and more despite the fact that we dont need it.
(that can infact have evil consequences)someone once said that evil occurs when good men do nothing. maybe your inability to question the role of money in your life is stopping you from being a great man rather than just a good one!!
I buy/read/action a lot of books/tape sets based on my various investment strategies. To the point that people think I’m nuts! [blush2]
I’ve also attended a few seminars (both good and bad) and have purchased a number of homestudy kits.
Why do I do this? To further my education and to get to where I need to go.
I drive long distances to work each day and I use the tape sets to further my education while driving instead of listening to the radio.
I read investment books instead of reading fiction.
I study home study packs instead of watching a lot of TV.
I work on my business instead of going out.
I’ve been doing this for about 2 years and putting into action what I have learnt when it is applicable.
Now that I know what styles of investments I want to focus on I concentrate on products from individuals that I am compatible with. ie. cashflow positive property.
But, before I part with any money I always do my due diligence and do my own background checks on the internet by looking up forums, using ASIC Fido and other great resources to work out if they are worth the money they are asking for.
I always use the saying “To play the game, you first must know the rules” and these products assist me learning those rules from people who have done it.
So where has this monasitc lifestyle gotten me?
Well, I have had a tremendous journey that continues, I’ve met some great people, I’ve found a new interest that I love, and I am now starting to reap the rewards of my hard work (not that it is work to me as I enjoy it) by creating passive income streams.
My journey now continues into property… [biggrin]
Bernie
Marc
Yes, $350 for 15 minutes appears way overpaid. However, if your wife is in the business of saving lives then what price can you put on that? As Kay said there are many overpaid people in the world – sportsmen, actors and so on. I believe workers who are dealing with saving people’s lives should be some of the highest paid, but unfortunately that rarely appears to be the case – firefighters, surgeons, nurses, etc.
Why would a presenter not be satisfied with grossing $300,000 per year, say? 99% of the population would kill for a return like that. Once you take care of living expenses and can afford to buy luxuries, travel and so on, why is there a need to keep making more and more?
To me there is some sort of threshhold where beyond that you don’t really need the money. For example if I had $1 million net, I know that I could make that grow for the rest of my life in a sustainable manner, without needing to create an empire of hundreds of millions of dollars. An income of $50,000 to $100,000 per year would do me just fine because I know that could achieve everything I want with some to spare.
I want to be financially independent through investment, but it doesn’t have to be to the point where I want more and more – just sustainable so I can take care of my needs and help others.
Wez.
Originally posted by Marc1:PS Why do you use the word “pontificate”, when you refer to my post? it has a clear derogatory component.
May God prosper you always.[biggrin]
MarcMarc, it just seemed like the right word to use- it just came into my head as the one that suited. Dictionary.com defines pontificate as:
“1. To express opinions or judgments in a dogmatic way”
(no. 2 definition is to be a pontiff)
I notice that when anyone disagrees with you, you say that they don’t know what they are talking about, that it is their subconscious dictating what they say, that they are brainwashed by norms etc… and you use the word “evil” a lot, which suggests you have some kind of religious undertone in what you say. So basically, you are being a bit of a Pope :o) Hence, pontificate seems to suit
don’t take it as derogatory- the Pope speaks the truth, and many listen to him As the Pope, he is constantly pontificating.kay henry
I’d love to be earning $1million a year – or even $10million a year. I could do a lot more good in this world with that sort of money than I can with a basic wage.
Earning lots of money doesn’t necessarily mean that I will waste it all on a hedonistic lifestyle.Keep smiling
FelicityGood post AussieR even when you make some unfounded assumptions.
I am not defensive, I am enthusiastic, and my enthusiasm stems from having discovered some time ago that I am in control, providing I load my mind with the right values, and have the right thoughts, followed by the right actions.No more “luck” no more “connections”, no more “rich relatives”, no more “favors” necessary for prosperity, only my own mindset and lots of action.
So when I run into some throw away line that bears all the marks of a limiting belief, I start jumping up and down, not so much for myself since I think I have conquered most of those, but for whoever is saying so, nodding gravely, because I know from experience how much damage he/she is doing to himself with his winge.
Take the original post and subsequent responses by Wezwaz, and Mr wez, please don’t think I am having a go at you. This is strictly business.
To me there is some sort of threshold where beyond that you don’t really need the money. For example if I had $1 million net, I know that I could make that grow for the rest of my life in a sustainable manner, without needing to create an empire of hundreds of millions of dollars. An income of $50,000 to $100,000 per year would do me just fine because I know that could achieve everything I want with some to spare.
What is wrong with the above?
Ask a priest and he would say nothing, ask a teacher and he would say nothing, ask a parent and 95% will say nothing.Yet are this people doing Mr Wezwaz any favors?
Not for a minute! They are just being NICE.Unfortunately nice does not cut it and the fact is that such statement says I have implanted in me a belief that anything above 100,000 a year is wrong, and people don’t really need such income.
This belief will act as a constant brake on any business venture or opportunity, constantly monitoring the persons every move in case he takes the right steps toward prosperity. If he ever does even by accident, this anti value will make sure he then takes the wrong turn somehow, in order to sabotage any plans that may see him successful, and of course turn as bad as all those other out there who earn above 100,000
Now this is not a matter of opinion, but basic psychological facts, and certainly not because I say so.
May God prosper you always.[biggrin]
Marcmarc – you make a good point about people who limit there expectations. i question however your view that we (you) are in total control of your destiny. and being a christian i also wonder how you approached this point.
on the contrary i think my strenght (if i may be so bold) is the realisation long ago that i wasnt in control. christianity calls it giving yourself up to god. your way too me seems a very stressfull way to live. not succeeding would surely be harmful to your psych.
i would have to nominate ‘luck’ as the single biggest determinant to being wealthy. i was wealthy when i was born a white male in a western, country. as soon as that happened the odds were stacked in my favour.
i still think your your efforts for self determination are admirable but i dont think they work for most of the world people. as i said in a previous post – try telling someone from a family of 15, whose lost half there siblings due to malnutrition, wjho has no access to water, who has very little in the way odf prospects that the key to there future success can be found in 5 monthly installments with tapes making promises about releasing the giant within
im not being rediculous either. there are millions more facing that reality than people debating the price of seminars on internet chatrooms.
one last point about living a ‘sustainable’ life rather than keep wanting more money. this is not a silly idea. infact corporations are beginning to realise that quick grabs for profit and always wanting keep the shareprice up here and now – might not be the best way to operate. the catchword now and in the future will be sustainable profits – we are starting to see this already.
Rogue / Wez,
I ask you this……
If I was able to make say 200,000 per year, which you feel is bad, but I’m then in a position to help others… then, I’m still wrong ????? hmmm ????
One thing you will see as you go along, if you have the mindset, is…… When you become wealthy, you start to spread it around to others who need it more…..
In other words…. if I’m scraping by on 50k per year, my charitable donations would probably be ZERO…..
When I’m earning more, then, I can ( as we actually do ) start to give to others…..
The wealth Pelican has generated is now going back in some forms to helping people… We financially support a family with a quadriplegic….. LOTS OF BILLS…. and we are helping out…..
So, I must be bad right ???? because I’m earning too much….
MINDSET ( it’s the journey, not the detination )
ACTION
DO YOUR HOMEWORK
pelican. im not sure where i said earnign alot of money was bad. as i stated in another thread i also earn well into the 6 figure category. i have been since i was 25.
heres what i also know. i save a much bigger proportion of my income when i earnt 50k as a 22 year old than what i do as a 33 year old. and thats just a percentage. the actual amount is huge. so the more we earn the more we spend. nothing wrong with that.
but the other truth is that you dont have toi have alot of money to do good with it. the idea that when i make 1 million dollars then i will give back to the community is crap. we are all wealthy enuf to give now.
ps – if you check my posts i never said that earning alot of money was inherantly bad. i just dont think its inherantly great either. be careful what u wish for!!
Rogue,
Sorry mate, re-read my post…. Wasn’t trying to ” have a go” was just trying to bring a different perspective….. didn’t read the way I wanted it to…..
The issue is Mindset, and, as we go along in life, changing it for the better…. GIVING more……..
We certainly cant take it with us !!! [biggrin]
Well, for some people, when they have more wealth, they look at ways to help others…..
As I said several times, it’s all about MINDSET
Personally the more wealth I have, the better off I am to help others in the real world……
Cheers
[cap]
Never did I say people earning over $100,000 per year were bad. Some are reading too much into what I have said. The guts of what I’m saying is about sustainability, taking care of your own needs and helping others, i.e. living a plentiful life where you can do what you want, when you want and maximising the enjoyment in your life.
Let’s bump it up a bit then. Could you sustainably live on $300,000 per year and achieve all you want? Or do you really need $100 million in your life to do everything you want? I think $100 million to the average person is a little bit excessive and not really required to achieve everything they want in life. I guess I could be still way off the mark.
Wez.
Yes, $350 for 15 minutes appears way overpaid.
>What happens if she could teach you to swing like Tiger Woods, wouldn’t people be interested in that? What happens if she could provide a way to save thousands with your super? Is she now massively overpaid? What happens if she provide that knowledge which also allowed you not too rely on the Government for a further 5 years into retirement as well? I think the whole of society just might suggest that she is not overpaid. And really who decides if someone is overpaid? If some one could increase efficiency and reduce costs, shouldn’t they be highly paid?
However, if your wife is in the business of saving lives then what price can you put on that? As Kay said there are many overpaid people in the world – sportsmen, actors and so on. I believe workers who are dealing with saving people’s lives should be some of the highest paid, but unfortunately that rarely appears to be the case – firefighters, surgeons, nurses, etc.
>Well what jobs should have the highest paid? Farmers provide food, and feed millions, shouldn’t they be the highest paid? The military and police protect us and our property (they also lock criminals up) shouldn’t they be really highly paid? Garbage collectors provide a very important service and without them disease and death would sky rocket – so shouldn’t they be the highest paid? What about coal miners and power plant workers? They save millions everyday ((see how easy it is for hospital to run without power), and thanks to lighting streets, providing power to traffic lights, etc, etc), now they should be the highest paid of all! In fact doctors might only save one or two lives per week, where as farmers are saving millions of peoples lives per week, so Doctors should get paid very little and farmers very highly…
Why would a presenter not be satisfied with grossing $300,000 per year, say? 99% of the population would kill for a return like that. Once you take care of living expenses and can afford to buy luxuries, travel and so on, why is there a need to keep making more and more?
>Why isn’t Donald Trump satisfied with owning one building in New York?
Why are sports men and women not satisfied with wining one medal?
Why don’t musicians retire after one of their records goes platinum?To me there is some sort of threshhold where beyond that you don’t really need the money. For example if I had $1 million net, I know that I could make that grow for the rest of my life in a sustainable manner, without needing to create an empire of hundreds of millions of dollars. An income of $50,000 to $100,000 per year would do me just fine because I know that could achieve everything I want with some to spare.
>Great for you, but that’s rather limited and in a way selfish, because if you could create a million dollars per year, couldn’t you give back more and more?
I want to be financially independent through investment, but it doesn’t have to be to the point where I want more and more – just sustainable so I can take care of my needs and help others.
>Help others in a limited way. Myself, I would rather have huge amounts of money, for example I would love to buy hundreds of acres of old growth forest, and place it under trust for future generations. That’s what Steve Irvin is doing. He uses the profits to buy up land that holds endangered species and plants – under your method he would buy very little, but under his plan – he just might save a couple of endangered species.
>If your happy with a couple of hundred thousands per year, great. For me I want to do something that has an impact the world. And it’s very difficult to do that with a couple of thousand here and a couple of thousand there. Look at Bill Gates, he is helping eradicate the world of polio. I would rather he do that, than simply be satisfied with earning a $100K a year.
Rgds.
Lucifer_auNow back to the topic at hand…. (these posts seem to jump around a bit![tongue][wink2]
Charging high prices for seminars is just greed – as simple as that. If a presenter ran a seminar over two days, charged $200 per person and attracted 100 people, he would gross $20,000. Do that only six times a year and it’s a good yearly return. You get the gist. Now what’s wrong with that? Isn’t that being very well paid for your knowledge? But oh no, that’s not good enough for the spruikers when they can milk the public to the tune of thousands, rather than hundreds. Give me one solid reason why they charge thousands, because to date on this website we haven’t yet heard one.
>Because you can make hundreds of thousands of dollars? Or you can retire quicker if you had some expert help? (if you want proof, simply look at Steve McKnights MAP program).
Why do we, the public, fork out ludicrous amounts to attend seminars? Because we are also greedy. We think the presenter is going to lead us to the holy grail of wealth. It is human nature. Why expend energy if there is a quick and easy way? There is no quick and easy way. It doesn’t exist. That is a realisation we must all come to before we can make progress from being naive fools.
>Greed is simply a human emotion, nothing more, nothing less. In fact I see greed as good, because I’m looking for these property deals not because I like having to paint and repair them in the future, but because I like their cashflow, and I want more of it -therefore I must be greedy!
Many of us are naive and easily conned, often very late in life. Some of us never get any smarter. Don’t worry I’ve been there and had to learn the hard way myself. Hopefully, I’ve gained some enlightenment along the way to be better prepared for the future.
>Perhaps with some good education people wouldn’t of bought two tired, deposit bond inner city units for the tax benefits – I know of two ‘spruikers’ who tell people not to negative gear (one even makes you yell it out).
As for people being naïve and conned – you can either learn from your own pain (experience) or someone else’s (education & knowledge). I know which one I would rather lean from, even if it cost me a little extra.
Rgds.
Lucifer_au
don’t take it as derogatory- the Pope speaks the truth, and many listen to him 
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