Hi all
First of all i think aussie has summed it up well.
Out of this story, lets see it as a story some issues need to be addressed- Steve has never encouraged people to buy in those way out places you appear to have bought. Where abouts have you bought by the way?
Secondly you have had a very bad run with properties- I own 30 Cash positive ones and don’t have the sort of issues you have. In fact of the first 10 i bought i replaced one hot water unit in the first 4 years.
As far as selling them now, that really supprise me as i have a few on the market at the moment and all have sold with a few weeks at close to the asking price, these are in Horsham (15 Hennessay st), Morwell (Quigley St) and Stawell (Oliver Ave) (all Vic), no problem selling, where are your properties ?
No sorry niki i disagree the book works. Hey i’d still be working if i didn’t buy cash positive properties.
regards westan
I live in New Zealand and for a fee find cash positive deals there, email me at [email protected] to join our database
Hey Westan,
I hope you don’t mind my asking this, but if your cashflow properties ARE working for you, why are you selling them??? [blink] Guess I’m thinking along the lines of that old adage “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it”!!!!
Cheers,
Jo
Hi Monopoly,
i know you address the question above to Westan, but personally for me, im currently now selling off some of my +ve cashflow properties, but am replacing them with better quality properties, (some will be negative and positive), but the major problem being is, they have been the most problem ones of all, and have cost the most in maintenace and a few tenant problems…
personally, i rather stick with negative geared properties, and ride the ups and downs, but try to keep a high number of turnovers happening, and let the momentum push you further and further towards your goals.
Cheers,
sisHi Jo
i’m happy to answer that question, in fact i’ve always been happy to openly share my investing strategy.
Ever since mid last year i’ve been saying on this forum that you can’t buy true cash positive properties (that i’d be happy with) in OZ anymore, But i also said that NZ was full of them (back 12 months ago), luckily a few who were on the forum way back then went over to Nz and bought up bit and made a packet. People like Minimogul was also promoting NZ as a fantastic investment, luckily some took her advise. i told everyone that my properties which i’d bought(as areal example) in Elizabeth SA for 24K are now worth 100K and renting for 120pw, so why own an investment that is under achieving, i could get all my money and the profit and buy a better cash cow in NZ. this is exactly what i have been doing. I’ve been selling properties that at todays market rates are poor performers ones that i’d never consider buying at current values. Actually if i owned some properties in Melb or Sydney i’d flog some of them off and by a real investment that puts money in my pocket straight away and will grow in value (no that will upset you [biggrin]).
So to sum up Steve has a special word for it … can’t remember what he calls it, i call it common sense sell something that on todays value is a showing low returns and buying ones showing higher returns.
Just for the record i like to active at least a 12% Cash on cash return (with capital gains a bonus), what cash on cash return do you like to achieve , or is it nots an investment priority ?cheers westan
regards westanI live in New Zealand and for a fee find cash positive deals there, email me at [email protected] to join our database
Hi there,
SIS,
No problem; thanks for your comments, it’s always good to have more than one opinion, and hear/read what other people are doing; so I appreciate your input. Sounds like you’re got your plan of attack down pat, and are moving forward….Keep it up; well done!!! [thumbsupanim]
Westan,
You said:
Actually if i owned some properties in Melb or Sydney i’d flog some of them off and by a real investment that puts money in my pocket straight away and will grow in value (no that will upset you).[blink] I am confused, which part do you think would “upset me”??? Flogging off the properties in Melbourne??? Or opting for “money in my pocket” part??? True, I live and invest in Melbourne, but it is by no means, the antz pantz you must think I see it as!!!! As for having cash in your pocket….better there I say, than in the taxman’s!!!! So you see Westan, I’m not upset, quite the contrary, I am HAPPY for you (as I would be for any other “smart” investor achieves what they set out to!!! [thumbsupanim]
As I have always said, although I do not subscribe to the notion that “cashflow is king” cashflow is a good thing, and I would never suggest people do without it. However, I personally PREFER growth, ONLY BECAUSE that is how I created my wealth. But that is my strategy, and it is neither right or wrong, just how I did it!!! Bottom line, and I have said this to death “if it works for you; knock yourself out”!!!
As for Cash on Cash returns, I must plead ignorant, I have never used this expression, so if you will simplify it for me, I will be more than happy to answer. What I can say is, rental return yields as long as I can achieve the going rate in the area, as well as at least 5% CG per year I am happy, anything above that is “cream”!!!
I don’t believe your success has necessarily come from buying in NZ or from buying “cashflow positive” properties; IMO it has come from RESEARCHING the right places that can offer the returns that YOU want, and by so doing, what or where you buy becomes secondary!!! WELL DONE!!!
Cheers,
Jo
Hi everyone,
Glad to hear you all are happy and wealthy, sounds to me like everyone is “closing the gate when the horse has bolted” in regards to niki’s problem, she should have had all this advice BEFORE she began investing!
I’m happy to have discovered people who are so knowledgeable about investing – (niki take note of all this and fix what you can!!) I will keep visiting this forum.
I am eager to hear how long each person has taken to achieve their current portfolios, so I have an idea of the time frame I can put on mine!
Trisha[biggrin]
So much to respond to , some kind, some not so kind.
Yes I have no landlords insurance, that I have been dealing with, the companies have not been so kind but because I have a number of properties I am confident of a result to be both happy with.
I am still cash +ve even if it is only 20 dollar for each property each week, still positive yes, if not by much. Even with the insurance I still look at $14 per week, still +ve.
Kay you say 15 properties is a lot, not nearly the 150 I have tried to emulate.
My father says this is stupid, no offence to you.
Mr Steve McKnight says this can be achieved, this was my aim to exceed this.
I have brought great shame to me if I do not rectify this problem.
I have the book for 1 week after release I have the computer for the 2 weeks now.
I still have a great problem, but I wiil solve the problem.
AssiRogue, I will sell you my problems without feeling bad at all.
My sister is not a twin, the state took her when I was five, I have never seen her again.
I was growing up in USSR you people here do not understand and how good you are here in Australia.
Nikki.the problems do not seem insurmountable. Assuming you borrowed on 80% LVR the 20%+ equity in the 10 or so performers should cover the losses on the couple of untenanted ones? Can you sell a couple of the better ones to cover the untenanted ones?
In the worst case scenario, i.e. you go bankrupt, it may not be much fun but there is no real ‘shame’. It’s a rite of passage for most tycoons – Trump, Bond, Branson who went close.
Extensive list of ‘Off The Plan’ property available for sale in Perth.John – 0419 198 856
Hi Niki and Jop and all
Niki if you are a genuine person and really want to get out of the problem phone me i’ll be able to help you. (no i will not buy your properties) I think i’ve been around long enough to know how to improve the situation.
I now live in New Zealand phone me on 0011 64 3 4180083 or mob 0011 64 210 320 985
Jo what i was getting was i was using some of your own rhetoric (trying to be cute[cap]). You have said in the past that when you make negative comments about Cash positive it upsets people, i know you like Melbourne property so i was saying it will upset you that i would reduce my exposure to the Melbourne market. no Big deal lets move on.
OK “Cash on Cash return”- is how much will a particular investment put in your pocket each year as a percentage of the actual cash i put into the deal. For instance if a property cost 200,000 and the rent is say $250 per week, this works out as a yeild of 6.5% (250×52 weeks=13,000 Div by purchase price 200,000 and converted to a percentage 6.5%). But this is not the Return on the investment. Because you have rates, management , insurance the real return is often way less on this type of property, Add a mortgage and you have a negative cash situation. One that will cost you money and take money out of your pocket each week. Even on some homes that some people see as cash positve will in reality only give them a very low return say a yeild of 9% may only give 3% when you work out all costs. I believe that as an investor it is very important for me to know what return i’m getting on my investments. For example if i owned (had equity) 1 Million worth of property yet my income from it was only 50,000 per annum, i would not be happy that is only a 5% Cash on cash return. That’s why i continue to sell properties in Oz. I want a good return from my money say around 12%+ return on My investment. While i expect capital growth as well, even if it doesn’t happen (as we never know) i will still be making money. If i have poorly expessed it please do a search on “cash on cash return”
regards westan
I live in New Zealand and for a fee find cash positive deals there, email me at [email protected] to join our database
Now it seems amazing that Niki can all of a sudden only speak broken english, It seems that there is a rat!![buz2] A rat in discuise( spell????) even but i dont care cause young girls on the net are usually fat dudes with IT jobs anyhow …..oh that will get me in trouble! hehe[cigar][cigar]
Sooner or later the man who wins is the man who thinks he can
A short note…
I bought Steve’s book last year and know for certain that if it hadn”t been for his book, I wouldn’t have been able to buy my properties, know so many like-minded investors nor be able to have accesss to this site as I wouldn’t have known about it except through the book – it is proving useful and I owe my gratitude to him.
I bought Peter’s book yesterday and have started reading it – so far so good.
I’ haven’t replaced anything in any of the properties I have yet – touch wood!
Best regards,
George.I’ve found a way to help you save and earn whilst not selling or delivering any product. If interested, drop me an email or PM me to find out how
I think Westan you’ve got it right and you’ll do ok out of it too.
…….If you can buy ahead of the crowd and then flog them off that is where the money at!………Not holding these remote headaches for years and years with the eventual maintenance / tenant issues that WILL come with time.
Niki
If you email me the location, price you paid, how many bed bath (ie 3×1 house, 2×1 unit) for your properties I may be able to buy them all off you, fully covering your original costs inc stamp duty, legal fees etc.
email me: [email protected]
Thanks
SlumLord
i For one am looking to the outcome of this post..
Westan
[thumbsupanim]You’re a great guy as well as a great investor! whether this posting be bogus or not, your offer is there..Nikki
methinks your post smells a bit more than last weeks rubbish, however..i’ve been wong beforeAussirogue
pretending to be a girl and cross dressing- does not mean you get dressed ‘angry'[lmao]REDWING
“Money is a currency, like electricity and it requires momentum to make it Effective”
Count The Currency With This Online Positive Cashflow CalculatorHi Westan,
I knew you were kidding; it’s all cool; have moved on [tongue]
Anyway, thanks for explaining the Cash on Cash thingy; you did it well BTW. Am I correct in thinking it equates to the “NET YIELD” as opposed to a GROSS one (where you do the calculation as per your example, hence not taking into account any deductions)???
Either way, because my main focus in CG, the “net” or “gross” returns are not the big issue for me; although I do PREFER to have AT LEAST a 6% (in today’s market) return (gross) which of course is less, by the time you take out expenses, or giving you that CASH ON CASH return you talked about. The only benefit (on my part) is that I have NO MORTGAGES to repay, hence it makes my returns somewhat slightly better. I know it sounds poor in comparison to your cashflow returns, and I am not (by any means) saying one strategy is better than the other, I am just saying, cashflow is important to me, but is not my main driving force; growth is!!! You have to do what works for you, and for me, growth is what allowed me to retired at the age of 39 (2 years ago)!!! [thumbsupanim]
Nonetheless, I think what you have achieved is awesome, and as long as you get to where you want to be; in my books, that is true “success”!!! Well done!!! [specool]
Jo
How much ‘profit’ do you receive? $15,600
Property repairs? -$8,800How much do you have left? $6,800 (Cash)
Let’s say you negatively gear, and the same thing happens.
Net profit -$300 per week, so that equals -$15,600.
Property repairs equal -$8,800How much do you have left? -$24,400
Can you easily afford $24K (and were talking cash here, not phantom cash flow)?
You could of reduced property repairs with landlord insurance. So your repair bill could have been significantly reduced.
The way I’m looking at it – you’re still further ahead.
As for relying on Capital Gains, it’s nice but it can take a real long time for it too happen (just watch how long it will take before we have our next property boom – 8 years or so), Running the figures until the next boom:
Negatively Geared: -$124,800 (over 8 years)
Or
Positive Cashflow: +$124,800 (over 8 years (cold hard cash!))
I know which one I would rather have.
Rgds.
Lucifer_auI might also add, that if you spent $25K on repairs (over $3K per yr), you would make more than enough to pay for two $500K properties (@ 10% deposits) within 8 years, or lets say 5 places at $200K each.
Rgds.
Lucifer_auAh! Niki is a total fake! Nikki? Niki? can’t even remember how to spell her name. Back of Burke? An Aussie saying that someone from the USSR wouldn’t know. And yeah, the english degeneration is another red flag…as is the ‘accidental’ russian spelling of Aussierogue’s name. HAAHAHAHA Busted!!
now let’s play the ‘let’s guess who Niki is’.
Which of the disgruntled and/or banned forum members with an axe to gring against the holy grail of +ve positive property investing could it be?
Is it a) billfromoz b) bbruham c) neil jenmanThe winner gets a…er…um….a glass of water and a look around.
Now on to the real stuff.
“Without growth, cashflow is useless.”
huh!!!??? well explain why people work for wages. No growth there.
Of course cashflow is not useless. How are you going to buy groceries? On growth?Or, you sell – and then you have cash, but no growth. (see, if you’d had cashflow, you wouldn’t have had to sell.)
or, you pull some equity out and spend that, but how are you going to service the debt? Well, you need cashflow…
I rest my case.
Now on to the next round in my usual rebuttal routine.
Kay henry:“I used to think this place had so many plants saying how great positive gearing was, that pi.com was a nursery.”
I don’t get how you don’t get that Steve (an advocate of +ve gearing) has attracted a lot of people discussing the merits of +ve gearing on his website.
*ding ding*
Round three:
westan said “People like Minimogul was also promoting NZ as a fantastic investment, luckily some took her advise.”
No rebuttal necessary. Back at ya westan.
those days it just wasn’t DONE to buy in another country. I bought in NZ even before steve and westan. I was even name-checking towns and then I had the real estate agents talking on the news about how ‘someone in Aussie had been talking up the town’ and later the agent told me it was ME!!!!well, hey – I had been to Steve’s seminar and found those exact magic ratios he was talking about – and BETTER – and DOUBLE – and PLENTY of them! So what was a Minimogul to do? Of course, I shouted from the treetops as loud as I could, ‘OVER HERE GUYS!!!” like mad for a year. It took a while for the fear paradigm to shift, but I’m so glad it has finally seemed to. Westan has done his bit in assisting others in and I am glad that I have been able to too. (and still am!!!)
swells with joy at some of her friends’ success stories such as my friend who is a freelancer and didn’t have enough for a house, so bought a section instead for 6k which would be worth 40 today, a year later. Now she is leveraging that to get into a house!!!!!!!!!!!!*
I was gonna say to Niki, Bikki, Nikki, Sicki, or whoever – you can’t have done what Steve outlined in the book, because otherwise you would have had the same result, instead of an opposite result. for example, buying an overpriced place in a town with a declining population without a builder’s report etc etc is a recipe for disaster. But you know that now, right? And BTW if your Dad has had Sydney houses for years, how come you don’t speak english better?
You are SOOOOO busted.
Hehe
I love busting people.
*bows*
That’s how come I know it’s probably one of the people I busted before.
joy to the world
Wow what an interesting topic and hasn’t it gone off in a tangent in a few places. I havn’t read Steves book yet but I have been investing and developing for years. Like many people I have good stories and some horrors as well but thats all a part of experience and getting better with handling money I think.
I have also run and put together courses and enjoy making a study of what works and doesn’t work for some people in different suitations,it is so diversified and controversional (money) we become so eager to get rich we loose sight of what we set out to achieve and I believe that is financial independance.
We know that to earn an income of $48,000.00 we need at least 1.3 million dollars of cryitical mass so my question to Nikki or who ever you are is what are you trying to achieve, you see the way I see it if you make one or two mistakes you can fix it but 15 mistakes you need better advise or stop digging because that whole is going to get deeper.
I don’t care about neg or pos investments so much because they are both inportant, I believe in debt reduction to build equity so if I stop work tomorrow my investments will take care of them selves. At the end of the day I know more millioneres in property that I know in the stock market so Nikki what is your solution now after you have sold all your realeste how will you create wealth for you and your family.
Good luck http://www.residentialwealth.com
I know why Niki (or whoever it may be ) is doing fake posts, to get everyone fired up!
I am enjoying this topic a lot, as there has been lots of wonderful info!
Where will this end I wonder…
Trisha[cigar]
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