All Topics / Creative Investing / Can you fault my My New Tax Law…..?????

Viewing 8 posts - 1 through 8 (of 8 total)
  • Profile photo of lifeXlifeX
    Member
    @lifex
    Join Date: 2004
    Post Count: 651

    WHY CANT I DO THE FOLLOWING?

    If I wrapped a property (One I already own and have been renting for over 12 months and which does not count as trading stock) and I incurred a capital gains tax (say with 50% discount) on a profit of say $30,000 straight up and……..
    Now, if I only received a princple payment of say $1500 for that same year (ie a wrap).
    Would this tax on $30,000 ($15000 @ 50% discount {minus principal $1500}) reduce my total taxable income by $13,500?

    So (if I was a high tax earner 48.5%) The government would refund me $6547.5 from my wages under my new tax law for …..um, making a profit?[:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D]

    I am confused, surely I havent stumbled across the greatest negative gearing scenario the world has ever seen?……{hopes} where the government pays me to make a capital gain???????[drummer][blink][greedy]

    Or is capital gains treated separate to earned income? [freak][cry]

    lifexperience

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
    Participant
    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,213

    I am confused too.

    In the above example, you have a capital gain, so it would mean you have to pay more tax, not get a reduction. But I am not really sure on how the tax on wraps works.

    BTW Capital gains losses cannot be used to offset income tax.

    Terryw
    Discover Home Loans
    North Sydney
    [email protected]

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of kpkp
    Member
    @kp
    Join Date: 2004
    Post Count: 509

    Surely once you wrap it, it becomes trading stock?
    And hence you pay tax on the installments as if it was income (cashflow)

    KP

    Profile photo of Fast LaneFast Lane
    Member
    @fast-lane
    Join Date: 2004
    Post Count: 527

    I’m probably wrong but here goes, you would still own the property you want to wrap until the wrapee has made their final repayment, say in 25yrs time. Therefore when contracts are exchanged officially, then you are liable for CGT?
    I’m not sure but then again I could be right?[confused2]
    Hope this helps, G7

    Profile photo of kay henrykay henry
    Member
    @kay-henry
    Join Date: 2003
    Post Count: 2,737

    I’m thinking along the same lines as G7. Remember, when you wrap, you own the property- NOT the wrappee- until the wrappee pays it off, whenever that might be. They might refinance in a few years, so then you’ll be paying the CGT.

    As a wrapper, you own the house, and act as a banker/financier.

    kay henry

    Profile photo of lifeXlifeX
    Member
    @lifex
    Join Date: 2004
    Post Count: 651

    In Vic, this situation would not be taxed as trading stock as property was used for other purpose, initially rented out and only wrapped later on. Maybe it would just be called vendor financing at this stage.

    But I think that if capital gains is treated separate to income as Terry pointed out, then the government wouldn’t actually pay me for making a sale,………oh well.

    lifexperience

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
    Participant
    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,213

    There are a few new tax rulings on vendor financing that came out early this year. Julia from Bantacs has made a few postings on these, and it seems the rules are different if the property has been rented out for a period before wrapping it.

    Terryw
    Discover Home Loans
    North Sydney
    [email protected]

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of JuliaJulia
    Member
    @julia
    Join Date: 2004
    Post Count: 217

    Heres the article on wraps you refer to Terry:

    If the Vendor Finance arrangement has the following features the income stream received, once the wrap arrangement has begun, is considered to be principle and interest by the ATO. The income stream received before the wrap arrangement is entered into is considered rent. Reference ID2003/968.
    Typical Features of a Wrap (Vendor Finance Arrangement)
    1) The purchaser pays a deposit at the time of entering into the arrangement.
    2) The settlement (change of the title deed to the purchaser) does not take place for several years after the arrangement is entered into.
    3) The purchaser has the right to occupy the property prior to settlement
    4) The purchaser pays a weekly amount (regardless of the name it is given in the arrangement) for the right to occupy the property
    5) As part of the arrangement the purchaser pays the rates, taxes and insurances on the property.
    6) The balance of the purchase price to be paid on settlement of the arrangement is reduced by the weekly instalments.
    7) If the purchaser fails to complete the arrangement the deposit and weekly instalments are forfeited.

    Now what about the profit on the sale of the property? Is that normal income or capital gain and when is it taxable? Assuming an agreement similar to that described above the answer to this question revolves around whether the vendor is in the business of selling houses or an investor just realising an investment. The key issues in differentiating here, according to ID2004/25, 26 & 27 are:
    1) The Vendor did not use the property for any other purpose than to enter into the wrap. A straight rental of a property before entering into a wrap arrangement would avoid this point.
    2) The property was sold at a profit
    3) The wrap arrangement was entered into within 6 months of the vendor purchasing the property.
    4) The Vendor is in the business of purchasing properties to resell. It would be difficult for the ATO to argue this case if the Vendor only bought and sold one property.

    If you are caught by all of the above then CGT cannot apply to the sale of the property as the profit on the sale is revenue in nature. If a transaction is caught as income, CGT does not apply or in other words CGT is the last option if income tax doesn’t catch it. But even if you weren’t caught by the above and CGT applied there would be no discount if the property was held for under 12 months. If you did hold the property for less than 12 months before entering into the wrap it is better to argue that you are in business and caught by the above because the profit on sale would be revenue in nature and as a result not assessable until settlement which could be 25 years away (ID2004/27). If you hold the property for less than 12 months but it is subject to CGT you don’t qualify for the discount but would be assessable on the profit when entering into the wrap.
    Section 104-15(1) of ITAA 1997 states that a CGT event happens when the owner of a property enters into an arrangement with another party to allow them to live in the property and title may transfer at the end of the arrangement. Section 104-10(3) states that the time the CGT event happens is the time of entering into a contract for the disposal of the asset, not when settlement (title passes) takes place.
    For example this means that the vendor who enters into a wrap on a property that has been previously used as a rental and held for more than 6 months will be subject to CGT on the property in the financial year the wrap agreement is entered into. Accordingly, if at this stage the property has not been held for 12 months no CGT discount will be available even if they eventually end up holding the property for 25 years under the arrangement.

    Disclaimer: Please note this information is general in nature and constantly changing so please don’t act on it without consulting your Accountant.

    You do not have to include the capital gain in your tax return until settlement but you have to go back and amend the tax return for the year when you signed the contract. If you amend within 1 month of settlement there is no penalty.

    [email protected]

    http://www.bantacs.com.au

    If you can’t bantacs at least minimise it legally

Viewing 8 posts - 1 through 8 (of 8 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic. If you don't have an account, you can register here.