My dearest Wallflower,
You’ve raised a good point about an ‘instruction book’ be it for life or anything for that matter. I guess we all have our own. I’m currently doing my tax (as I type) and I bought a financial calculator WITH INSTRUCTIONS MIGHT I ADD! Well I read the instructions but they were a waste of time anyway. I went to use them and read that it stated that ‘batteries are not included’! Bloody great! Now I’ve got to take the bloody thing back and buy another one all over again!
Ali, I think I agree with what you are saying about the word ‘proof’. In science that word doesn’t really exist. There is only evidence and continual supporting evidence. That’s the thing I love about science. Once we realise something like the theory that the world is not flat and ships can’t sail off the edge of the planet then that theory is immediately discarded. The theory of gravity isn’t proof. It’s evidence that is measurable for validity and reliability again and again. If tomorrow an apple starts heading skywards then the law of gravity would be debunked and on it goes. Proof is just another way to say that ‘I’m right and you’re wrong’ which is absurd! Proof is merely an opinion and as everybody knows, opinions are like a%#$h%$s, everybody’s got one. As to honesty, well, yes I consider myself to be an honest person. If you could just see this tax audit from last year that I’m trying to get out of you’d know what I mean! Anyway, back to my tax return. This site is addictive. That’s just my theory anyway. You disagree? Well bloody ‘prove’it then!!
Cheers,
Gatsby!lifeX: yes, I was agreeing with you about the concept of ‘facts’. I could have articulated that better though. I rely on Gatsby to fill in my blanks. [wink4] Thanks Gatsby for adding the examples that I was too tired to add. [biggrin]
Thanks also lifeX for your example of when good will has not had its desired effect. I battle with this, all the time. I will remember your example when I next have my ‘goody two shoes’ hat on.
Cheers,
Ali G
LifeX, I believe that as long as you have set clear internal rules then you will find the external rules less of an issue. If you are both comfortable and secure with your internal rules then you are free to be confident and flexible with whatever external circumstances you find the need to deal with.
I really like the fact that you are perceptive and a thinker. I also like the fact that you are compassionate. I believe that saying “no” is sometimes a kinder long-term alternative to just saying yes and patching up the immediate problem.
Letting people treat you like a doormat does neither of you any good – as you have been observent enough to work out for yourself. You get taken advantage of and feel rotten and they learn nothing constructive about how to help themselves in the future. Both parties are set up for further grief.
The book I mentioned that deals with these issues in depth and examines the psychology behind them. Trust me, the information is just as valid if you want to drop the Biblical quotes form the text.
Cheers
SonjaGoow will often doesn’t turn out well. There are examples of injustice being perpetrated on people all the time. We just make choices.
I mean, let’s put things in perspective… Jesus was a good guy and he got crucified- literally. But do you think if he had his time over, or he was on this Board, he’d do it differently?
I don’t see much point in using other people’s poor reactions to our actions, as an excuse for us changing the way we choose to do things. If I try to do the right thing, and then someone does the wrong thing back, and I think “no more mr nice kay henry”, or I do something nice/good/whatever, and I get an outcome I’m happy with, so I keep doing that… I mean, I think we just develop a plan for the way we want to be, and stick to it. Our behaviour can’t be based either solely on others’ ill-will or good will.
I think consistency develops trust. The problem with property, is that it’s often not an ongoing relationship- tenants move in and out, property managers can change etc etc. But if you look at the workplace, or families, or friendship, consistency is hugely valued, and instils the trust of others.
kay henry
In my opinion it is all about setting your own internal rules and knowing you own boundaries and then having enough faith in yourself to follow through on them regardless how challenging that may or may not be.
I don’t always find this easy. It is a big call for me but it is what I am aiming for.
As far as Jesus being crucified that is an entirly seperate issue. He made the choice to die for us then. Nothing is different today. It was always God’s plan. Jesus gave his life freely and with love, without bitterness and resentment towards us.
If you can give freely then relationships can be built and everyone can be better off. If you can not give freely then don’t give because it breeds resentment, bitterness and damages the people and relationships involved.
God values all of us highly. He also values relationships highly. Being christian is not about “helping” others to the point of your own detriment and the consequent detriment of human relationships. God has His own set of limits, rules and boundaries. If we aim to be like Him then so should we.
At this point I am going to say that this has the potential to be a never ending thread and I’m giong to retire here.
Although my religious beliefs have become entwined in the argument I hope my original point is still clear. I feel we all need to have internal and external limits or boundaries and the ability to live by them in order to achieve peace of mind and build strong relationships. I have shared the foundation for and source of my own boundaries and have decided that I will leave it at that.
Cheers
SonjaSonja,
I think you’ve put it quite eloquently. Ali G, keep it real! You’re spot on. How do we know that a metre is constant (that is the same measurement any where in any space)? It’s because a metre is 1/10th of a millionth of the distance between either pole and the equator. How do we know that? Well Ali, when I send you my book the answer will be under the chapter ‘The Stains in Your Underwear Can Indicate Your Future.’ Kay, sorry but I beg to differ. If Jesus was alive today he would still have carpentry to fall back on? I apologise if this comment may offend anyone. I believe God (whatever that may mean to people) does have a sense of humour. Either that or else I’m in for another bloody audit with this tax return! Anyway, it’s back to tax.
Cheers,
Gatsby!
PS I wonder why I failed accounting? Any idea?Of course he’s got a sense of humour – that’s probably why you’ll get another audit
Cheers
SonjaLOL! I guess I’ll find out when (if?) I get my tax return. Maybe he’s a prankster God. I can’t find the word ‘dinosaur’ anywhere in the Bible?
Cheers,
Gatsby!Have you actually looked? Gotta admit that I haven’t read every word in the Book but I can’t recall any mention of dinosaurs either. Lots of other interesting beasties though…
Cheers
SonjaGats, how come you’ve got an audit?
And I do believe Jesus would have done it the same, as would have Ghandi, and Nelson Mandela. Look at Nelson Mandela- not a bitter guy at all- and he has always continued to fight for his people- but he has never been a doormat.
Being honest is not about having a lack of boundaries. As I said, I won’t work with people who don’t share my beliefs, or I’ll tell them what I want to do- if it’s my PM- and they have to follow (seeing I pay them and all). I had a tenant who was WAY behind, and the PM discussed it with me, and I told her I will not make a person homeless (my rent was the cheapest going at the time). That was my decision, and I told her my beliefs on it, and that we all can have hard times in life- my tenant can, and I can too- I see my tenants as no different to me. Others would handle it differently- it’s all about choices. I took full responsibility for that decision- my choice, my belief system. Will making these decisions make me rich? No. Do I care? No.
Doormats accept the status quo- whatever that might be. I think a doormat is in the eye of the beholder.
Gats- do tell! Why the audit, huh? What could you have been claiming for that you got audited about? hehe. Go on, tell your snoopy friend :o)
Cath
Kay, just to be sure you don’t misunderstand me, IMO it sounds like you have a very strong and healthy set of boundaries in place. That has always been clear to me in reading your posts. I have come to respect you and what you have to say over the time that I’ve been around here.
Cheers
SonjaPS Just in case… I know I have been a bit strong in stating my views in this thread – no disrespect was directed at anyone. I think you guys are all great.
Sonja :o) No problems at all. And you’re entitled to express your views strongly. It’s funny… because the word “doormat” is a theme in another community I am a part of. Some people make choices to do certain things, which other people see as a lack of strength, or something. Whereas I see these people as having the utmost strength. They’re making a choice to surrender. So I guess I thought I’d just wade into the notion of it, and make some comments.
Thanks Sonja
)kay henry
Monopoly,
Prejudice is always a bad thing. In reference to what I was saying, the term doormat is used by people who don’t understand. That’s what I’m saying. It’s why I deconstruct the term- it’s about choices. Not a choice to be a doormat…
Oh, I see you’ve removed your post.
kay henry
Yes Kay; agreed.
As you will notice I deleted my post as after re-reading same, I felt it to be unkind. I meant no disrespect; I just felt that if they (the community) saw you as such (doormat) it cannot be a nice atmosphere, and maybe you should re-consider your membership.
Jo
P.S. Yes surprising as it may seem, I actually do have a HEART and can feel compassion for those treated badly through others ignorance!!!
hehe. Monopoly, you have completely missed the point. You could have left the original post there- I didn’t see it as unkind. Your second post still doesn’t see the point I was making, but it’s ok. My “membership” as a “doormat” is funny. [biggrin]
kay henry
Oh well….I guess even a PhD isn’t guarantee that one will “get” everything!!! Just as well I suppose (information overload).
Glad my vagueness amused!!! I would rather that, that give the impression I condone prejudice!!!
Jo
great posts everyone. the depth of discussion is amazing.
one thing i would add with regards to ‘others getting ahead’ or ‘being a doormat’ etc etc
i always reminds myself that success or failure are in a lot of ways ‘momentary’ things. they are just in a moment in time.
so for example, if one thinks they have been taken advantage off for doing a good deed – this could be true…but….
there is every chance that down the track this perpetrator will feel remorse for what they have done and recognize the greatness in you act of kindness.
sometime we never get to see the results of our acts of kindness. but if you believe in the basic goodness of human nature you then have to believe that ‘most’ people feel remorse for what they have done.
we have all done bad things to others in our lives. imagine not being forgiven, imagine if no one risked helping other due to the fact theyt might be taken advantage off.
ive factored into my life that there is every chance i will be taken advantage off at one time or another in my life but this is ok.
one last disclaimer. – for myself however this doesnt meen being naieve with regards to heliping others. i wont deliberatly give mny time, money etc to someone/thing who will rip me off. but like just like investing we need to work with probablities. the probablity that there is someone who actually needs you help surely outweighs the probablitity that we are surrounded by crooks…
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