As a new investor, I have noticed that there is a wide spectrum in the investor community that ranges from:
Over-nice – nice – fair – cold – mean
Un-necessary offering of extra information
-full disclosure
-minimum required disclosure
-omittance of minor details
-deceptiveWhen I first started posting with PI.com, I was playing the super kind, be good to others, put myself second, preachy social worker hero. I have since had reality dampen this spirit.
In reality, you can and choose decisions for your investment adventure that may fit anywhere along these two scales. I think that in some instances you may consider the more evil end of the spectrum if it furthers your case.
Everyone has a price, even if you righteously preach that you don’t.
For me, I think I will adhere to the minimum legal requirement that results in the most profitable outcome when it comes to business decisions.
Anything more seems foolish, (my goody two shoes social work has died with the onset of realistic cynicism).
Yet I still believe full integrity is the most powerful building block of business.
Any thoughts contrary or otherwise?[drummer]
lifexperience
Nice thread LifeX, you always get the masses talking. sic
No probs….myself.
But I disagree, I have just read about win/win situations.
Oh.. you have a point, I guess I will be continually looking for the perfect attitude, even though perfect may mean dynamic.
[curtain]he he
lifexperience
Hey I’ll help out here LifeX!
A bit of a Pollyanna myself…always wanting to believe in the goodness of people.
Still you can’t help but aquire some hard won cynisism as you go along hey.
Cheers
LifeX,
I don’t know what to say, you said it all. Should I replied to myself as well?….LOL.
Take Care.
Kind regards
Jet Dollars
Retire Young, Retire Rich . . . REALLY? . . . I didn’t know that!wayne, and heya Life (cute curtain smilie- I love that one) :o)
Cynicism can happen, but I work on critique and analysis. I’m an optimist and I believe what people say, so (thinking about the Victor Ollis thread), I believe something can be ok, until I read evidence to the contrary. But I research everything like a mofo, so I find out what I’m getting into.
I have an ex, who once said “never be bitter- it’s one of the worst things in life.” And I’ve always remembered that. So it doesn’t matter how life can disappoint, because I remain optimistic. It helps that I spend my intimate time with people who have a similar outlook and values- it acts as a reinforcement.
LifeX, I still get very angry and sad about injustice in the world, but within my personal sphere, and with anything that might have occurred within my past, it still doesn’t change my perspectives. I have never have a “social worker” attitude to life, but rather a “social justice” approach.
I once lived in the outback, and I saw so much injustice there. It upset me greatly. My mother said I needed to toughen up, so I wouldn’t be so affected. But I saw many people there, who were so embittered, so angry, and so alcoholic (to cope with an environment they told me they hated being in), that I felt I never wanted to become like that.
Dunno, for me it helps to think things can change. Eveyone’s been hurt and messed around, I guess. Some people “become” that disappointment, and it’s a challenge to not become cynical… but it can make life a lot “lighter”, I reckon. Otherwise, it can just becomes baggage that grows.
kay henry
Yeah good post Kay!
“never be bitter- it’s one of the worst things in life.” wise words!
good posts guys. i would add that you only get one crack at this life and therefore why risk being anything else other than honest and righteous.
to me its about perspective. so if you think that making an ‘evil’ (hehe) type investment decision – will further your cause, then maybe you dont have a total grip on what makes you happy, and what success really means..
we spin a viscous web sometime also. for example it is my opinion that those of us who want nice thing ie like a porshe ot a big house etc really want respect, respect from others, status so we are listened too etc etc. but if we obtain that succees and status by being less than ethical then it is hollow.
all the people i know who drive porshes are balding middle aged men who use mens facial products. they dont look too happy to me…
I’m well mannered at the dinner table
I’m direct in my advice
It depends on whether you’d rather I was honest
Or whether you’d rather I was nice.This is MY poem and MY REALITY. Take it or leave it; your choice. People make their own judgments, regardless of what is fact or what is fiction!!!
Jo
Honesty is the best policy.
Being ‘nice’ primarily means to me saying what people want to hear.
What people want to hear isn’t necessarily what they need to hear.
Cheers,
Aceyducey
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice, there is.– Jan L.A. van de Snepscheut
I believe in doing what is fair and equitable.
Life is a negiotation I reckon. And the happy median is what is fair for you and me. I hate the expression win/win as its been hijacked by all those spruikers but thats fairness.
Something where we both can walk away and feel satisfied.
Originally posted by Aceyducey:Honesty is the best policy.
Being ‘nice’ primarily means to me saying what people want to hear.
What people want to hear isn’t necessarily what they need to hear.
Cheers,
Aceyducey
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice, there is.– Jan L.A. van de Snepscheut
To me “niceness” and “honesty” are two separate virtues.
You can be nice as you tell people what they need to hear.
My wife does this all the time when she tells me (nicely) that my taste in in my arse and that I should reconsider my choice of clothing! Something I *need to hear as I am getting dressed to go out! Hah!
….
I can’t quite put my finger on it, but there seems to be a core issue to be resolved with regard to an investment path.
What if…More important than equity, more important than market or strategy or goal… and that is “how you choose your path”..
it’s almost like defining yourself…
Does anyone sort of know what i’m blabbing about….
n
Niceties and good intentions are cold comfort when the real world rips ’em apart.[drummer]
lifexperience
Can’t remember who or where but once upon a time I was whinging about it “just not being fair” and this person told me that “fair” was not a valid concept. If you expect things in life to be fair then you are bound for dissapointment at the very best. Good things happen and bad things happen some you are responsible for, some you are not.
My policy is to give as much as I can freely give – it feels good for everyone and it builds relationships. If I feel that I’m not comfortable giving (time, information, money, whatever) then I just don’t give. If I give more than I can willingly give it leaves me with bitterness and/or resentment which only destroys relationships.
This is important to me because IMO everything from PI to family to voulenteer work is about relationships. The stronger they are the more successful the overall outcomes.
Is this the sort of thing you meant lifeX?
Cheers
SonjaWell said Sonja
Cheers
Geoff
“When you can walk on water…take the boat”
dito sonja – well said
Onya Sonja, [thumbsupanim]
You’re just the best!!!!
I’ve come back after the weekend and re-read everyones replies. All positive and good.
I like your observation sonja about stepping over the line with giving and finding oneself in bitter territory, I will keep a closer eye on thi in future
My policy is to give as much as I can freely give – it feels good for everyone and it builds relationships. If I feel that I’m not comfortable giving (time, information, money, whatever) then I just don’t give. If I give more than I can willingly give it leaves me with bitterness and/or resentment which only destroys relationships.Kay,
I think optimism based on critique and analysis would be a good guide for preventing more “cynical baggage”.Jo,
Your poem is classic.I’m well mannered at the dinner table
I’m direct in my advice
It depends on whether you’d rather I was honest
Or whether you’d rather I was nice.Acey and Wayne,
Honesty is the best policy, I think too. And maybe niceness is a whole unrelated issue.Aussierogue,
Hollow unethical success would indeed be a waste of time.Yack,
I like the way Fair and Equitable Negotiation sounds.You all seem to be down to earth good guys, and I have now got renewed energy and a more defined approach to my ethics..
I am proud to be posting and bouncing ideas amongst such people.
[daisy]
But would a guaranteed and underhanded couple of million make you change your tune……..ONLY KIDDING, I know it wouldn’t. <whistles evily>
lifexperience
Dear LifeX,
I wouldn’t call myself a religious person. Everyone is different, so if one thing is carved in stone the problem arises that as individuals, we’re not all made from the same rock. I do however refer at times to Shakespeare. Not so I can say ‘I read Shakespeare’ but because it works for me. The reason for me is because although it’s about 400 years old, it still is relevant today in describing the human condition and I guess that’s why it’s still performed today and included in educational curriculums. The point I’m driving at LifeX is that from my understanding you are facing a dilemna because I sense you are obviously taking responsibility for your life and what life deals you. You’re also taking a very responsible attitude to it by questioning it, rather than what the easiest option would be which is ‘as long as it doesn’t affect me then I don’t give a shit.’ That’s a very hard and honest position to take. Very few people in life have the guts to take the stance you have chosen to. In ‘Hamlet’ this responsibility is what he is constantly tormented with. Everyone has heard of the famous line ‘To be or not to be’. This question of self doubt is Hamlet’s way of saying ‘should I battle on with what I belive to know as being right, or should I just suicide and end my suffering from others’. Hamlet chooses not to, despite everyone around him thinking that he is ‘insane.’ Hamlet takes the hard option, not the soft one. Despite feeling the easier option is to end it all, he decides to challenge what he believes to be true and knows to be right and takes the hard option. If you read my profile I think you’ll see my quote stating that ‘Often the hardest thing to do, is often the best thing to do’ (or something along those lines). Do what’s right for you and I think by doing so, you’ll do the right thing by others regardless.
Cheers,
Gatsby!Gatsby,
No need to justify your quotes, “Shakes” is cool.
I know you can question, disect and justify virtually any act and argue good or bad for it. But at some point you have to choose what you do and stick with it.
What you say about doing whats right for me, seems to me to closely follow what others have suggested and on what I will base my direction on.
I know that giving everything I can, has not had optimum results even though the intention is pure.
I am trying to reel in a balance that maintains my self first, so that what I give after that can be prolonged and ultimately gives more.Look at Bill Gates, he built his own empire and now writes charity cheques for $millions furthering good cause.
But I don’t know…I believe smarter can be more effective than harder. I don’t quite understand why harder would be better….though I suppose hard exercise reaps good health, mmm interesting.
[drummer]
lifexperience
LifeX,
harder may mean,
‘To suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,’ just like Bill Gates does with his great charity work! (the slings and arrows are from people who put him down?).
Cheers,
Gatsby!
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