Just going to pains here to say that I am a believer in property investment. That’s why I hang around here.
Not bagging it folks OK!
Originally posted by RodC:Westan’s right, it is certainly possible to lose >50% overnight on shares. Obviously if you have suitable risk and money management techniques then this one event won’t wipe you out. But many traders still got it wrong during the tech boom/crash.
You got to remember property can also wipe you out overnight if you don’t know what you are doing with property investing and that go the same to shares…no question about that. If you don’t buy building insurance and it burn down what will you do?
Kind regards
Jet Dollars
Retire Young, Retire Rich . . . REALLY? . . . I didn’t know that!Hi Jet,
Yes I’m aware of that, that’s why I do have insurance. Like many here I don’t wish to advocate one over the other. I invest in both and will continue to do so.
regards,
Rod
Hi Guys
i agree with wayneL that we can’t expect to make too much from property in the next 5 years using the old strategies of buy and hold – and sit back and get richer and richer.
Like a few others on the forum i’ve done well from property , but i have to admitt a lot of the initial success was just being in the market, Of the properties i bought in 1997 i never dreamed that they would go up buy over 200%. I think the ones i’ve bought more recently (last 3 years) i can claim some more of the credit for what i’ve made.
By the way i’m not anti share, my father is a self funded retiree living of his invesments in the stockmarket, without his invesments he would be getting a part pension.regards westan
I live in New Zealand and for a fee find cash positive deals there, email me at [email protected] to join our database
Let me respond to these questions –
<<<<1/ you say you turned 10k into 500k since 1997, a return of 5000%. Do you think you can now turn this 500k into 25 million in the next seven years? If not why not?>>>>>
In short – No. I am limited in my ability to borrow more. I also do not think its a good time to be overextended on borowings. My assets base is around $1m. In 7 yrs time I expect the asset base to be $1.5m. They say property doubles every 7 yrs but as we are at a peak in prices, I expect property to rise 50-70%% over the next 7 years.
Being conservative I expect to turn $500k now into an extra $500k.
<<<<2/ Do you think you could turn 10k today into 500k in 2011 using the same strategies? If not why not?>>>>>
Almost. If you had a salary of $60k and was able to borrow $400k. I reckon you could probably make around $300k by 2011 starting with $10k. I could have made more than $500k if I had bought houses and not units.
<<<<3/ What is the nett bottom line return of this 500k equity and could you maintain your present lifestyle without selling any assets? If not how much equity would you need to fund your retirement?>>>>
My present lifestyle is not effected. I am on a good salary in the IT industry. My salary is able to fund my lifestyle and property investing. I have a wife and two kids at kinder age.
We have a reasonable lifestlye – we run two cars, the kids are at 3 and 4 yr old kinder and the oldest starts school next year. We have had regular holidays over the last 3-5 yrs – Qld, snow for a week and Merimbula twice in the last 4 yrs. We live in a median priced house about 24 kms from the city about 500m from the Bay in Melbourne. Its not fully paid off. As a family we are off to Canada and the UK for a wedding in a few months time. Funded by the gain on the sale of the last property and tax refund. We dont eat out at restaurants too much (twice a month) and try and limit take away as well (once a week). My wife is busy enough looking after the kids so she does not work. She does see a personal trainer once a week.
I am not at retirement age and expect that when I do, I would need to sell a property or two to pay down some debt. To fund my retirement, I reckon I would need triple ie. $1.5m equity.
<<<<<4/ Some economists are signalling a major deppression starting at some point in the next decade (let’s leave aside whether they are right or not for now) If this eventuates, how would your strategy stack up? What effect would this have on you retirement income?>>>>>
I sold my latest purchase about 6 weeks ago. I cashed in the gain (I expect property to be flat over the next 2-3 yrs) as the interest was going to exceed the growth. Now my portfolio is neutral. I am well placed for my next purchase. Based on what I have learnt, I will look for a house with room in the backyard to develop. Or a house to develop.
If I had my time again I would do a few things differently. But property is the key and even now is the key to investing in my opinion.
Hi Yack,
i respect your comments, and that is perfectly fine… (thanks for sharing some information about yourself…) though if you look at the richest people in the world… Warren Buffet and Bill Gates, they have more money in stocks than in property… were talking here billions, and if we still look down the list of richest people in BRW magazine… many of them, own substainal stock portfolios… even there own business the richest people in the world, have them listed on the stock exchange… look at the Chicago and Australian Exchange, you will definetly notice that the richest people in both countries have there Corporations, companies listed…
ie… this does stand to have some meaning
Cheers,
sisLets not confuse business owners with Share traders and share investors.
I am a PROPERTY investor.
People will always need a place to live, no matter what the economic climate.
Shares to me are ‘BS’. Meaning, no matter what a company’s stocks SHOULD be doing based on fundamental or technical analysis, it’s stuff like PERCEPTION and HYPE, ADVERTISING, FEAR, GREED etc that make prices go up and down, I reckon.
Shares are boring. I realise some people think they’re great fun, but to me, time spent watching, trading, reading financial papers, would be hell.
(Unless of course it was my company which was floated, in which case I’d suddenly find it very very interesting….watch this space!)
Shares are time-consuming. I don’t need another job. if they’re not time consuming (blue chip buy and holds) then their returns are lame.
Shares are stressful (because of the risk.) burnout, grey hair, suicides, bankrupt – don’t know too many property investors with those conditions, but there sure are a lot of shares casualties.
It’s an addictive combination of online gaming and gambling that takes over people’s lives and makes them have shiny glazed eyes with dollar signs in them…I know people that got consumed by shares, to the point of all day, every day.
So exactly like gamblers and online gamers….The returns on passive buy and hold property are way better than passive buy and hold blue chip shares
I believe that properties will always go up in value as long as the population of the world continues to increase, because that means you have an ever increasing demand for a finite supply of land. Building costs rise, housing density increases, and land values go up. Diversions and dips in the UP trend are mellow and there has never been a property CRASH like there are frequent stockmarket crashes.
Property is trending UP, baby, worldwide! always has done, and always will do, unless a lot of people in the world die en masse, in which case the sharemarket won’t be in much of a fit state either….
property has a lot of things you can DO to it to change it, make it a good investment, it’s a creative THING you can effect with your management. it’s a tangible asset, which has an intrinsic value, unlike a piece of paper or a ledger entry on a computer somewhere which is basically worthless. You can add appeal, you can increase the value of your investment by making your property more emotionally appealing to tenants and buyers, not to mention increasing the value of your investment to you and another investor you might sell it to, from the financial results of the ’emotional improvement’ you did earlier.
property has more end-users….almost everyone lives in a property!
cheers-
minifeel free to argue away
joy to the world
Originally posted by MiniMogul:
feel free to argue awayNah! It would take too long to firstly correct the misconceptions.
It’s funny to note the proselytising fervour on both sides of the fence.
Who really cares anyway, as long as what we do puts groceries on the table plus a few frivolities.
Sorry, I feel compelled to comment on this doosie:
>>Shares are stressful (because of the risk.) burnout, grey hair, suicides, bankrupt – don’t know too many property investors with those conditions, but there sure are a lot of shares casualties.<<
What ‘BS’ hollywood movies have you been watching?
Come and spend a week with me Mini! You may get bored but you’ll see how low risk it is!
“Property VS Shares, at the sydney Money Expo this Friday (today) @ 1pm:
The Great Debate
Louis Christopher, Pam Walkely, Patrick Bright, Angus Geddes, Ron Bewley, John AldersleyTitle: Property Versus Shares
Time: Friday 1.00pmDon’t miss this exciting debate that will allow you to hear presentations from the experts and ask direct questions.
Property:
Louis Christopher, MD – Australian Property Monitors
Pam Walkley, Editor – Money Magazine
Patrick Bright, CEO – EPS Property SearchShares:
Angus Geddes, MD – Fat Prophets
Ron Bewley BA, PhD, FASS, Head of CommSec Quantitative Research
John Aldersley, MD – Direct Portfolio & Columinist Herald SunFacilitator: Effie Zahos, Deputy Editor – Money Magazine
http://pub1.ninemsn.com.au/moneyexpo/Sydney/article7.htm
kay henry
Originally posted by MiniMogul:It’s an addictive combination of online gaming and gambling that takes over people’s lives and makes them have shiny glazed eyes with dollar signs in them…I know people that got consumed by shares, to the point of all day, every day.
So exactly like gamblers and online gamers….
feel free to argue away
joy to the worldMini,
Sorry I can’t write that long, but comparing share trading to gambling is cowpoo.I love property as well that’s why I am here, but I also love the excitement of share trading that is why I am at http://www.aussiestockforums.com
Take care and look after your property as much as I do.
MAN, I love this topic…
Kind regards
Jet Dollars
Retire Young, Retire Rich . . . REALLY? . . . I didn’t know that!>>Sorry I can’t write that long, but comparing share trading to gambling is cowpoo.<<
LOL I love it!!
Mini, here is some of my scribblings on trading and gambling.
http://tradingforaliving.netfirms.com/article_2.htm
It sounds like your “friends” are merely gamblers who are using the market as a casino.
Posted tonight on reefcap by N40K
“Gambling is a tax for people who don’t understand Maths”
Gee Mini that was quite an answer, but wasnt it a property crash that occurred before the 1929 stock market crash. The idea that owning part of a company is like owning nothing is an interesting thought, but I guess Rupert M, Bill Gates Etc feel they own something.I have no problems with people who say they prefer property and dont like shares but to spread information about shares that isnt true is not right. I enjoy a good debate but lets try and stick to real facts instead of an uninformed put down.
The only thing that worries me about this thread is that it is people who do are uninformed who are being negative about shares.
DO SOME RESEARCH!!!!!
Cheers,
Aceyducey
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice, there is.– Jan L.A. van de Snepscheut
But why stop there, just do SOME research about other stuff in this forum too!!!!
Ignorance speaks volumes in many threads I’ve noticed, but unfortunately that happens in real life too.
(I’ll probably get blasted for that sarcasm…oh well)[wacko]
Jo
P.S. This PROPERTY vs SHARES debate is getting pretty stale wouldn’t you all agree???……I mean, come on….drop it already!!!! Can’t we just agree to disagree (or better still) respect each others views!!!!
Hi Jo,
I don’t think you should get blasted for just telling the truth.
Unfortunately there are a lot of uninformed opinions and an unwillingness by many (not all) to do even basic research. I guess the forum really is a reflection of real life!regards,
Rod.
Hi Guys,
be understandable, that this is a property forum… and that there are going to be many negative thoughts and ideas to share trading… i honestly do believe, with a little bit of share trading knowledge and placing the better odds in your favour… share trading, will quickly make you forget about property….
the reason most people fail in share trading, is simply they havent got the psychology, discipline, money mangement and neither have they planned, their entry and exit strategy for the particular trade… (planned there trade)
these people, are who we call gamblers (or pigs, because they squeal, when they get burnt or lose money…)
share trading, does allow you to minimise your risk and you are in control… its up to you to pull the trigger… if you cant do any of the above, you should not play the market, ask experience traders, and they will tell you how low risk share trading is….
and if you were at the money expo today… (and i did enjoy the debate about shares vs property… at the expo…) you should have seen the debaters for the share team, vs the property team debates, how they put the property gurus back into there corner, and the property gurus also admitting that property is not a good investment at the moment…
id hate to admit it, but, if you look at the richest people in the world, they own the biggest share holdings positions… (billions were talking)
honestly, i dont know any property guru or investor, whos properties into the billions…
Cheers,
sisHi SIS
there are heaps of Billionairres who have made their money from property.
For starters try Frank Lowey, he owns the Westfield Property empire his personal wealth is Billions. I remember reading the BRW top 100 wealthiest Aussies its amazing how many of them have joined the list through property, you should get a hold of it and have a look.
Hey i like shares but, name one who have made the list from share trading ? There aren’t any.
And the real reason people fail at trading is because its not as fool proof as the publicity material you read. Sure there are some winners but there are loosers also.
as far as the richest people in the world I think you will find that Bill Gates made his fortune buy owning Microsoft and taking the company public, not but investing in shares. Sure Buffett has done well, he is a legend and you and i might do well by studing his investing strategy, for the record Share trading is NOT one of them.regards westan
I live in New Zealand and for a fee find cash positive deals there, email me at [email protected] to join our database
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