Ok – lets say someone comes to you and says – I have limited time, energy, capacity etc. I want to retire wealthy with an asset base of $1m.
Am I better off devoting my attention to property or shares?
There is no doubt in my mind that Property is the way to go.
Hi Yack
Yes I do own Caltex and there has been many other good stocks. It has not given a signal to get out yet all I was trying to say was that not all stocks are bad just like not all houses are good. I have made my mistakes with them as well. I like both shares and property I feel they both have a place in my investment plan.<<<I like both shares and property I feel they both have a place in my investment plan.>>>
You are in a better position than me to answer this. Have you made more total dollars out of shares or property?
So lets say someone comes to you and says – I have limited time, energy, capacity etc. I want to retire wealthy with an asset base of $1m.
Am I better off devoting my attention to property or shares?
Hi Guys,
just a note on Caltex, currently holding and still holding… and with oil prices at and all time high… great stock to be dancing with…
but to oppose your question Yack…
Am I better off devoting my attention to property or shares?this is a personaly question to each individual, but depending, on your trading technique, style and system… i would have to give the thumbs that share trading personally for me, beats a weekly wage, property is great for capital gains, and cashflow (& for leverage), but when it comes down to excitment and which one has less work… Shares by far…
but personally i would rather have $1m worth of shares than property….
Cheers,
sissis said:
“i would have to give the thumbs that share trading personally for me, beats a weekly wage…”
sis- but it ain’t free to bet on trades. To “beat a weekly wage” you have to get money to bet with. So you’re either using rents or wages to play with, right?
It also depends on what kind of weekly wage you’re talking about. I mean, are you saying you can sit at home, tap a few buttons on a keyboard, and mae a thousand every week? No losses? Just wins all the time? Even rene rivkin didn’t win all the time. Are there days or weeks when you might lose, and so have no wage equivalent at all?
I mean, I know we’re all winners on here [baaa] but I wonder would someone come on and say “oh dear, bad day at the track (oops, stockmarket)… I just lost 5k.”
kay henry
Originally posted by yack:Ok – lets say someone comes to you and says – I have limited time, energy, capacity etc. I want to retire wealthy with an asset base of $1m.
Am I better off devoting my attention to property or shares?
There is no doubt in my mind that Property is the way to go.
Fare enough YACK, but if the same person come up to the experience trader, do you think that person will say PROPERTY?…you know the answer.
YACK….let that person go and ask Peter Spann, what do you think Peter will say? I am pretty sure he will said start off with Property then drawdown the equity to invest or trade in the shares market to generate income.
Property can not generate income as fas as shares.
I am glad that you build equity of $500k, but say in 1997 you bought a property suddenly you run into trouble where you need money instantly, can you sale property overnight?
I would to point out that your $500k is not pure cash, after all the cost of selling, tax and other you propably got around $300K and yes it is a good investment. But with $500K in equity you can drawdown and invest/trade in shares to generate income….don’t ask me have I done it because I am in the process of doing it.
I invested in property and now willing to take up new opportunity which is the share market and I am not asking you to do the same think, but to see other point of view.
It is nice to have a different opinion because it’s become more creative in a way.
Kind regards
Jet Dollars
Retire Young, Retire Rich . . . REALLY? . . . I didn’t know that!Hi All
Would I put my money into shares or property, at the moment I have made more out of property but then I have had it alot longer and spent alot more time on it, shares on the other hand I can see replacing my hubbys income leaving more time to look for property. I find at the moment property is definitely more time intensive, but like SIS i really like shares and feel they will always be an important part of our portfolio.
I think people should do what suits them I feel you are interested in shares Yack like any investment it is all about educating oneself so that your money can work hard for you
ErikaYACK – Virgin blue down -14.22% today, that’ll make you a win argument…happy now.
SIS really like shares, but SIS already invested in property….enough equity to play around with shares.
If you ask SIS to start over again, will SIS start with shares? only SIS can answer.
ACEDUCEY, I believe also invest in property as well as shares.
Maybe only YACK like only property because don’t like the roller coaster….only YACK can answer
Kind regards
Jet Dollars
Retire Young, Retire Rich . . . REALLY? . . . I didn’t know that!Timing is also a major factor if I was asked to answer Yack’s hypothetical question.
In the last 5 years, Property was the obvious winner for a time poor investor. Looking forward, I wouldn’t recommend Property as something to throw all your money into now for a good return in 5 years time. My bet would be stocks with emphasis on Resoruces.
The other advanatge the stock market has is that you can bet on sectors within the market. LPT have done as good as many direct property plays would have. You don’t have to buy the actualy product of a boom, you can hedge and buy the company involved in it.
Hi Kay,
Originally posted by kay henry:sis said:
“i would have to give the thumbs that share trading personally for me, beats a weekly wage…”
So you’re either using rents or wages to play with, right?
no (rent money goes to mortgages, work money goes to the credit card, and daily expenses), actually i have quite a very large portfolio of shares, its another one of my multiple streams of income
It also depends on what kind of weekly wage you’re talking about. I mean, are you saying you can sit at home, tap a few buttons on a keyboard, and mae a thousand every week? No losses?many people get confused by this, but in the stock market, there are such things as, stop losses, resistance sell/buy, straddle sell/buy, profit target, trailing losses/volume, conditional ordering and so on…
as for losses, there cut short… im not a buy and hold in shares, i use a system, set of rules (entry & exit strategies), and reposition my self daily.
another thing too with shares is… there is a system such as win/loss (divided by) profit/loss, to work out your overall net position…
Just wins all the time? Even rene rivkin didn’t win all the time. Are there days or weeks when you might lose, and so have no wage equivalent at all?not wins all the time, actually i lost $1300, the other day, but that didnt kill my overall position, my other share holding positions, were able to recover that net loss, and that protected capital was able to be reinvested, back into the market immediately…
bad day at the track (oops, stockmarket)… I just lost 5k.”this cant be truly said on shares, if you follow a set of rules, a system, money management and are discipline, losses can be shorten, whilst protecting the capital and have it reinvested back into the market immediately… another thing too with shares is, there is more diversification (more sectors and different forms of leverage.. (options, short selling, futures, CFD’s, warrants, bonds, mutal funds, manage funds, margin lending, FX) and these forms of derviates, are available to you, and you can invest at your own level of comfort zone.
Cheers,
sisyou also have the added option for, long, medium, short term position trading, you can be a systematic trader, intraday trader, day trader, or even an investor… and then theres technical analysis vs fundamental analysis or a full service broker…
property doesnt offer as much range, possibilty and options to suit someone’s needs… as what the share and equity market can offer…
Cheers,
sisWell done SIS
I know this is a property forum and so most people will only be interested in property, it just amazes me that people think that trading shares is like going to the racetrack. I have plenty of friends that think investing in property is sooooooooooooo ooooooo risky they just dont know how I do it.
Like SIS i have a plan I follow with shares stop losses are in place my main concern is protecting capital, then increasing it. I have a similar plan with property.I’m glad there’s such a vigorous debate.
Property & shares can both deliver excellent returns….
Which is better – depends on your goals.
At the end of the day it really does depend on your level of knowledge.
Yack – think about your own attitudes. You are down on shares, but don’t understand them……there’s a fundamental issue there!
Feel free to stick to what you know and never consider other investment options.
But people who do want to move beyond their comfort zones & increase their returns really do need to spend some time understanding the different types of investment options and then, and only then, deciding which is best for them.
I know people wealthy through shares, and those wealthy through property – but most wealthy people I know use both investment options and often others besides.
Yack, if you want to look at one example on the ASX at a time, feel free… there are over 1,300 shares listed on that market & the ASX is only around 2% (by volume) of the world’s capital markets….so you can find an example of anything.
What a serious investor does is UNDERSTAND the market, understand the options & them make the high probability choices – this works in the share market as much as it does for the property market.
Your understanding and experience is what makes the difference, not the market!
In shares the goal is not to ‘win’ on trades all the time, but to win more of the time and lose less on each loss than you ‘win’ on a gain. It’s quite different from property in that sense.
And having a ‘losing’ week in the share market is like having a vacant property – it happens, but a serious investor plans for it and manages that risk.
Cheers,
Aceyducey
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice, there is.– Jan L.A. van de Snepscheut
Well said
Very well said Acey,
However I get the impression that many of those here know more about the theory of how not to lose on shares than the reality.
Westan’s right, it is certainly possible to lose >50% overnight on shares. Obviously if you have suitable risk and money management techniques then this one event won’t wipe you out. But many traders still got it wrong during the tech boom/crash.
I can see much of this new found property wealth getting blown in the share market by those switching from property to shares who are long on theory but short on experience.
regards,
Rod.
Hi Rod
I’m with you on those comments and it will be the ones who think that trading is a sure thing that will be burnt the worst.
Take time to learn with small amounts of money.
regards westan
I live in New Zealand and for a fee find cash positive deals there, email me at [email protected] to join our database
I am an accountant and do know a little about shares. I have exposure to shares in my super fund.
The thing I like about property is this. The time value of money.
Property Bought 1997 $100k – salary $60k. Rent $140 per week. In 2004 $270k and salary $100k. Rent $205 per week. The Salary are rough figures but as you gain experience salary increases as it does for inflationary purposes.
Notice that just by holding the property its increased in value and for very little effort. Your pay and rent increases and repayments stay the same. The only effort is the odd phone call to property manager.
I think property’s not a completely sure thing either, I have to say- no more than shares. Some people lost heavily in two-tiered marketing schemes, and we can all make mistakes. The TT marketing of the 80’s/90’s might have an equivalent in the OTP losses (on recent buys- not on profitable flipping) of 2004.
Sometimes I don’t think it’s just a matter of “financial intelligence” that we make money… when I bought my first place, I had no clue what I was doing- it was luck that it worked. But it might not have worked for me- I might have sold pre-boom, when there was negative growth in the area. Again, it was more luck than knowledge, that I didn’t sell.
As people have said- there are some very savvy rich folks who have lost on shares. It’s comme ci, comme ca, I think- property vs shares… we all have preferences.
kay henry
Yack,some questions for you.
1/ you say you turned 10k into 500k since 1997, a return of 5000%. Do you think you can now turn this 500k into 25 million in the next seven years? If not why not?
2/ Do you think you could turn 10k today into 500k in 2011 using the same strategies? If not why not?
3/ What is the nett bottom line return of this 500k equity and could you maintain your present lifestyle without selling any assets? If not how much equity would you need to fund your retirement?
4/ Some economists are signalling a major deppression starting at some point in the next decade (let’s leave aside whether they are right or not for now) If this eventuates, how would your strategy stack up? What effect would this have on you retirement income?
Cheers
Speaking for myself personally WayneL,
I bought a property in 1984 for 175K and sold it in 1994 for 925K. Could I repeat this in the next decade, without consulting my trusty crystal ball (which is in for repairs atm)???…..I’d have to say, probably not. I do believe it would achieve a substantial CG but nowhere near comparison to such levels.
Jo
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