Keep in mind if the price of petrol in Australia tripled (which is sort of what you would expect if oil tripled) then it would still be cheaper than petrol in the UK an most of Europe.
Originally posted by Nat R:Keep in mind if the price of petrol in Australia tripled (which is sort of what you would expect if oil tripled) then it would still be cheaper than petrol in the UK an most of Europe.
Nat,
You had better give your calculator a whack.
A google search revealed the following:
On 8-Jun-04 the price of the unleaded petrol in Britain was 80.9p per litre (at Tesco, Great Yarmouth, Norfolk).
That roughly equals about 2.15AUD per litre at todays depressing exchange rate….slightly more than double. Nowhere near the more than triple that you claim.
Also the particular site I found had this to say:
Petrol prices on the European mainland are generally slightly lower than in Britain.
I know you value accuracy highly, so I sure you will appreciate me bring this to your attention.
As for the “all is lost cruel world, pass me the poison chalice” type of people, hold your horses.
There are two factors to keep in mind.
If the world bosses, (the one that pull the strings and make the Bushes and Blairs wave and blare) want an environmental crisis for their own obscure purposes, no amount of reasoning or voting will change that. The ‘bosses’ own whoever comes to so called power anyway. Its just a matter of waiting what their real purpose is. Do not stress out, nothing you or me can do.If on the other hand this so called crisis is just a trump card for the people in power to “save the world” with sweeping changes and renewable energy sources magically turning up at our door step. (Another term in office assured)… then, there is nothing to worry, the media dogs have done their job spreading wild panic (good dog, here is a bone) the strung up puppets done their share of waiving to the masses… who will talk important discourses and nod gravely with the assurance that the use of bad fuel and the coming of good fuel is a fact accomplished. Ah, another generation can exist in the assurance the good governments will look after them . . .
May God prosper you always.[biggrin]
MarcG’Day Folks,
Funny how ‘De-ja-vous’ (if that is spelled correctly!) strikes. I had a discussion with a local on last Saturday Night regarding just this topic (oil/fuel/power shortages) and this guy knows of a bunch of old-timers that were very young men in WWII where they were making fuels from Wheat, potatoes and such wonderful garden vegetables. Another aviator used asetup of super heated steam to complement his Leyland P76 fuel system. Apparently he only uses two litres of fuel a month! …. butSizzling_Duck wrote: So what would this mean? Well if you had a solar or wind-powered house you would probably be on a winner at some stage as coal will also have to have issues and increased demand from higher energy using items per household plus more households will probably outstrip the infrastructure’s expansion. I seem to remember a house in Sydney that gets paid every power bill since he returns more power to the grid than he uses…. from a solar house (in fact the house recycled nearly everything if I remember rightly).I have seen this story (I think it’s the same story) the owner of the house wrote a book about his exploits :”The House that Mike Built” I believe. Just for Information purposes.
Cheers
C@34
Yes you can eliminate your power bill and even get paid … if you are one of a hand full of rich excentrics that do it for fun. Start proposing this in any serious numbers and see the activity taxed out of existence, unless… it is part of a re election campaing.
The above is a feasible energy solution and it would be easy to legislate that every new house must be self sufficient in energy through solar pannels built on the roof. Would probably add 5% to the overall cost wich such demand technology would get even better.
This very fact is blatant proof that there is no crisis. And if there is one we will have to wear it becuase “they” want it to happen and you and me will not stop it.
May God prosper you always.[biggrin]
MarcCome on guys, we have to think outside the square here!!!!!!!!!!!
How much energy does it take to build a solar energy system[blink], or any system or alternative fuel, what does it cost, and how much energy will it return over its lifetime.
I think you’ll find that at this point Solar is only viable for hot water heating.Its all very well to say, we can build this or that, but you need energy (at this stage probably oil) to build these alternatives, and for them to be sustainable, they need to be able to provide enough energy to replace themselves. Entropy rules!!!!
How much energy does it take to build a solar energy system[blink], or any system or alternative fuel, what does it cost, and how much energy will it return over its lifetime.
I think you’ll find that at this point Solar is only viable for hot water heating.Its all very well to say, we can build this or that, but you need energy (at this stage probably oil) to build these alternatives, and for them to be sustainable, they need to be able to provide enough energy to replace themselves. Entropy rules!!!!
Not if you have to run power cables over hundreds of kilometers to supply power to houses which don’t need that if they have solar power with rechargable batteries. Look at all the solar lights you can buy these days just for your garden, they are getting more popular than the ones you have to roll cable out for and they are not that expensive either.
I wouldn’t want to look at net or gross power consumption in the production of solar power cells compared to the infrastructure and maintenence required on the dangerous overhead power lines….
Yes, you will always find someone who tells you it won’t work. When they erected the first wind farms, the friends of the birds gathered horrified, stating as matter of fact how the windmills would produce carnage beyond anything imaginable. The bird apocalypses had arrived.[blink]
Yea right.So now, we shouldn’t build any alternative source of energy because we will burn oil to produce it? Now there is some sound logic![baaa]
Who says that changes must have a positive energy balance?
Do you think for a minute that traditional energy sources stay inert and never renew themselves? How much energy is used up to build new diesel power plants? new coal power plants? Moreover, this just to keep on burning the same fuel?Of course, alternative energy is there to be developed, the only reason it is not, is because there is no political will to do so. We are geared towards an intentional energy crisis man made, either for some obscure purpose, or for simple miser commercial interest … or we are simply being doped by the media dogs for other uncertain reasons.
See the irony that the same day solar is announced to be on the agenda, biodiesel receives a 38% excise tax and licensing on the home production.
As for “Solar is only good for hot water systems” I do not think, such statement merits any response at all. Sometimes I think we live in the dark ages down under. Should go and visit Europe from time to time, they make good coffee there.May God prosper you always.[biggrin]
MarcAs for “Solar is only good for hot water systems” I do not think, such statement merits any response at all. Sometimes I think we live in the dark ages down under. Should go and visit Europe from time to time, they make good coffee there.And due to the 26,000-year tilt that slightly advantages the southern hemisphere at the moment, they get less sunlight on average per day [aacool]
Currently on the market are mobile homes that have everything solar powered except aircon, sounds like more than ‘hot water’ to me [thumbsupanim]
Probably the biggest issue with the power is our inability to efficiently store solar power or even other renewable sources. Perhaps we could take hydropower into the ‘micro’ environment by basically having large water tanks being filled during the day and emptied at night to produce power, still a very inefficient method though…
Talk about put words in my mouth[blink]
I didn’t say we shouldn’t use alternative energies. But they are not a replacement for oil. Oil has an EROEI (energy returned on energy invested) of 50:1. I love to see your figures on solar, I believe it is 1:2. What I’m getting at is there will be a hell of a lot less energy to go around, and at a very high cost COMPARED to oil.
Cheers
More reading at http://www.holon.se/folke/worries/oildepl/crunch.shtml
Originally posted by Fern:What I’m getting at is there will be a hell of a lot less energy to go around, and at a very high cost COMPARED to oil.
Fern, this is exactly the point the Pollyanna’s are missing.
Even if there were some alternative, viable and cheap energy source. The cost and upheaval to change over, is well beyond peoples ability to comprehend. The lag time alone would cause financial armageddon in the worlds oil dependant economies.
Far easier to put the head in the sand satirize the “doomsayers”[wacko]…not that anyone on this forum is like that[evil4]
Really!!
An installed solar photovoltaic system will cost you three times the kw/hr cost of on-the-grid electricity over its lifetime of 30 years.
Solar hot water pays for itself in under 10 years.
You wanna pay three time more per kwh? You think thats viable?
So, you are comparing a full-scale coal generation plant or why not a nuclear one, with a midget hobby solar panel on the top of some greenie’s roof are you?
That is a serious comparison is it?You must tell all the businessman who are investing hundreds of millions in wind farming, in convection towers, solar equipment and wave machines to drop everything and keep connected to the grid because it is so much cheaper.
Fortunately some have still some sense of adventure. The rest keeps the money in the bank.
May God prosper you always.[biggrin]
MarcOriginally posted by Marc1:So, you are comparing a full-scale coal generation plant or why not a nuclear one, with a midget hobby solar panel on the top of some greenie’s roof are you?
That is a serious comparison is it?Whats your point. I never mentioned coal or nuclear. And yes all sources of energy can be compared. But I don’t think you are quite ready for it[biggrin]
You must tell all the businessman who are investing hundreds of millions in wind farming, in convection towers, solar equipment and wave machines to drop everything and keep connected to the grid because it is so much cheaper.I’m an investor in wind power. Wind can be viable (if you get enough average wind speed).
Your point is??? You seem to have a bee in your bonnet[biggrin][biggrin]
Tell me just one thing Fern.
How can I have a bee in my bonnet?… conceded bonnet has a be,
I dont have a bonnet,
my car has,
a bee cannot be in the bonnet but under or on it,
in either cases it is unlikely to bother me or the car.
It is the bee that should be worried me thinks…Libenter homines id quod volunt credunt –
(Caesar)May God prosper you always.[biggrin]
MarcThere is nothing to answer Fern, and you are extremely boring, not to mention misinformed.
May God prosper you always.[biggrin]
MarcAn installed solar photovoltaic system will cost you three times the kw/hr cost of on-the-grid electricity over its lifetime of 30 years.Solar hot water pays for itself in under 10 years.
You wanna pay three time more per kwh? You think thats viable?
Solar Hot Water pays for itself well under ten years. Most governments in Australia offer rebates on solar hot water systems valuing in the hundreds of dollars. Some calculations have been that these systems pay for themselves in under 5 years for families…
A technology in itself is expensive until its widely accepted. Such as the price of computers years ago when a very ordinary system cost about $3000, yet today many ordinary systems cost just over $1000. If manufacturers find their is a incentive to produce solar for a growing market, then as more producers compete the overinflated prices of solar cells will fall.
For interest sake we don’t even need to talk about solar power for even airconditioning:
http://www.abc.net.au/science/news/space/SpaceRepublish_1045830.htm
Telstra stations are solar powered in the outback, countless homes are solar powered, street lights, traffic lights, caravan parks, Motorhomes, clocks, calculators, the mind boggles at the ever incresing number of applications for solar power. Power stations is just one more.
Anyway, I think we may want to go back to property investing…. so…
I am considering a farm that is totaly solar powered. The whole of Moreton Island homes in Queensland are on solar power, all but a small group on the North side that is still on a diesel generator.May God prosper you always.[biggrin]
MarcWas just wondering who had heard about the cheeky bastards up in Norway or some scandinavian country that has already created the technology for water fuelled cars? My dad (a mechanic) was telling me months ago that they have already created the technology but because BP or some other big oil company paid squillions for the patent, it won;t be released for commercial use for many years coz it then makes petrol obsolete.
THat would then mean the price of oil would have no real effect on the main consumers and push their share prices down. I don’t know the full aspects of it all, perhaps when I’m in PErth more and I see my daddy, I’ll find out more.
Let’s hope to see that car very very shortly….
Steph.
Success is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration.
Technology for many similar inventions have been purchased by the oil companies. Patents for methods of combining petrol and water in a 1:3 ratio in a special efficient engine that could be compartmentised from anywhere from 1 to 48 chambers was sold about 15 years back if my memory serves me.
Now BP may own the patent for the engine but they cannot own the patent for H2O (water). So all a person has to do is find a different way to utilise water in an engine (say for instance used with canola oil or a hybrid engine that uses petrol and water separately but differently from what they have a patent on.
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