iambored….
WITH YOU on this one….
All of the wealthiest people I know, are all NON grads…. most didn’t even finish high school…..
Sad to say, some MBA’s i’ve seen rolling off the production line are CRAP….. I even had to show one how to pay his frickin telephone bill !!!
The world moves so fast nowadays….. hmm….. degree ??? no thanks…..
Scott
It is a pity that those on here without a degree are suggesting not to get a degree. Whilst you may have chosen not to get a degree… it is a pathway to freedom- intellectual freedom if nothing else. As many have suggested, a University education will get you a higher paid job (I am not interested in the exceptions- I am interested in statistics on this). It will also mean you don’t have to work in sh*t jobs all your life until you find that elusive retirement. One of the salient things that I was told at University (we are so young when we are there and sometimes, we don’t know what we are there for!) is that as a University graduate, we will have autonomy in our workplace. Meaning, we basically don’t get kicked around by the boss- we either have independent jobs where we create our own work (that’s my situation) or we *become* the boss (if you’re into thatsort of thing- I’m not. For those interested, we work in a “flat” structure- all equals). Suggesting people don’t get a Uni degree because *I* might not have one, is like me suggesting other people don’t have children or something- just because I don’t have children! I think people should attempt to be a bit more objective. Fact is- people with University degrees *generally* earn more (much more) than people without them.
And I don’t know what kiyosaki’s book says… but if it recommends people *not* to go to University (perhaps because he didn’t go??) then I think that is very irresponsible.
kay henry
Originally posted by iamborediambored:
Kiyosaki’s lack of education is demonstrated by his poorly written and repetitive books.That’s pretty funny Rob. IF you had read his books you would have read that he got his degree at some academy in New York (?) on a scholarship….
Cheers
MelYes Kay I agree with bottom line statistics…
If I hadn’t gotten my degree I would never have gotten a graduate job with the Commonwealth Bank, and would never have got the training I need to become a broker. Therefore I am where I am because of my degree. As for the brokers out there without an education in lending… I don’t think the success rate would be so high, it is a hard job, but degree not necessary.
My theory is that most people who do not have a degree that still make alot of money are generally in a position involving sales. This is a generalization I know and I can’t back it up with statistics… but I am going on life experience and what I have seen.
So unless you are supercalafragalistic salesperson… get a bloody degree!!!!!!!!!![grad]
Liz
Mortgage Lender
Liz,
how wrong your generalised comments are…..
It’s typical of people here that have a uni degree to justify obtaining a higher job role / salary because of this….. ABSOLUTE CRUD……….
Vice Chairman of a company I worked for started with NOTHING…. did not finish high school at all…. by last count 9 years ago he had a fleet of 4 ferraris, houses in South Africa, the US, and, Hong Kong… all 1 Mill + in value…..
How did he do it…. NOT IN SALES….. by working hard, having the drive to succeed…. not to show off any credentials…….
I have several other ex colleagues and bosses like this…..
and yes I work overseas…. I was hired by one of the top US firms from Australia, and earn a GOOD wage…. plus plus plus…. why ??? Because of my degree….. ARRRRGG… wrong answer,,,, NO… dont have one…. WHY ??? Because of my experience in both my field, and in business…..
Experience counts first…. You wanna see that first hand ??? come to Singapore, where all the little boys and girls are taught to be robots, and get a degree…… they are still next to useless…..
I’m sure there are exceptions to both side of the argument folks, but STOP THE GENERALISING…….
Scott
Scott, it is human nature to generalise (not to mention that I did take a pre-emptive strike in BOLDING my statement when I said MOST)… as you can see yourself doing it in your post “Experience comes first” – and I don’t fully agree with you either but I am able to refrain myself from vicously calling your statement “Crud”!!
Try not to see my (and other posters) endorsements of a university degree as an attack on those without a degree my friend! YES I realise that you can still be successful WITHOUT a degree – maybe even outside of sales! I still think you’d agree that is a minority group.
Here is another generalisation for you – I hope you like it!
I think it all comes down to YOUR ATTITUDE, YOUR DEDICATION, YOUR DRIVE, YOUR BLOOD SWEAT AND TEARS…. What you put in = what you get out.
This is why I see alot of successful people in sales, who have no degree, but are happy, driven and well off. Sorry if I can’t see any examples of people outside of sales, I simply don’t know them. I have lots of successful of relatives, friends, associates, they all have Degrees!! [shocked]
I will continue to endorse a university education or likewise. Not everyone is capable of doing what your friend did, and I stand by the statistics.
I think anybody with half a mind realises that a degree doesn’t mean a job will fall into your hands, but these days it will certainly HELP you… look in the paper under job classifieds and see how often it reads “degree qualified”.
Liz
Mortgage Lender
One funny story about having a degree.
A friend of mine is an accountant.
I know pretty well what he is like so to send him up I asked him once how much is 7 X 8.He had some problems with that so he turned to his wife and said “Mary, quick, how much is 7 X 8.
Mary (not her real name), who has a PHD in mathematics, came up with the answer ’49’.
I have since been told that in ‘higher mathemathics’ one doesn’t necessarily work with
such calculations. [blink]So having an academic background is not a guarantee that one can do simple calculations.
Personally I wouldn’t employ someone just because they happen to have a degree. However, in the world out there that’s the starting point so (generally speaking) anyone who gets the opportunity to study would have to be pretty foolish to reject it.
Pisces
Just a few points:
– In regards to posts about rich and successful people ‘owning Ferraris’ etc who did it without a degree blah blah blah.. THINGS HAVE CHANGED. These people started out in different times and in different economic situations to what people of today face [rolleyesanim] Also these people aren’t your average everyday people!
– A degree gives you quite an advantage in progressing your career. The job market is so competitive, it’d be naiave to say otherwise.
– If you don’t have qualifications/degrees, then you’ll definitely need something special.. good people skills, good communication skills.. and GOOD LUCK.I’m one of the luckier few.. school wasn’t for me. I was the kid who was falling asleep in class (if I actually went!), yet still managed to pass [thumbsupanim] I started my working career at 15.. because of my good communication/people skills I was able to work my way up to a pretty comfortable position in a very nice company. The good thing? I don’t have a large HECs fee, and am currently looking at getting my degrees/certificatoin through work.. and yes they’re paying for it [jerry]
So although I got to my current position with no degrees.. I realise that for me to progress in my career choice I DO need the relevant qualifications.
Goodluck whatever you decide to do..
Newgen said:
If you don’t have qualifications/degrees, then you’ll definitely need something special.. good people skills, good communication skills.. and GOOD LUCK.
Partly true Newgen, but IMO regardless of whether someone has that bit of paper to justify their existence [blink] (please no offense intended here to anyone with a degree, this applies to me too)…without ENTHUSIASM for learning and/or life, one will never get anywhere. How does that silly adage go???: You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make it drink. Soooooooo true, you can force kids to go to school, but no-one can MAKE them learn, and if they don’t possess that drive they won’t achieve. The same with us as adults, if you’re not motivated to achieve, you won’t (with or without a degree)!!!!
Cheers,
Jo
Get a degree????? Yes. Let me recount an experience of mine.
As an accountant I went off for a job interview. Going down the resume – degree yes, experience yes….Ah so you play aussie rules for !!!!!! Our kids play for XXXXXX. We discussed this for the next 20 mins and got the job offer the next day.
Did the degree help – well it got me into the interview. Did all applicants have degrees – Yes. Was having a degree the reason for the getting the job. No. There are many are factors important in gaining a highly paid position.
A degree gets you in the door but experience, interpersonal skills etc help as well.
Different strokes for different folks but for me my motto is Its Not what you know, but who you know.! .
Regards Risky
If you want the rainbow youve got to put up with the rain!
Originally posted by Risky:Different strokes for different folks but for me my motto is Its Not what you know, but who you know.! .
Regards Risky
If you want the rainbow youve got to put up with the rain!
Who you know will get you there, but what you know and what you’re willing to learn will keep you there (and then some) [king]
Very true Newgen, the hard part is getting to where you want to be and then its up to you to stay there and progress.
Regards Risky
If you want the rainbow youve got to put up with the rain!
well thanks guys! i think ive heard nearly all the pros and cons there are on uni now!!! lol you’re all very nice people and thanks go out to you ALL!!!
Cheers, Brady
Hi lilman,
to be honest, i have many diplomas (a real lot to be honest), last year i started my degree and dropped out, how i saw the world from my perspective was, that i dont need a degree for a couple extra bucks, and if i was to get a few extra bucks it would all go to hecs, so in actually fact, i would just break out even, or maybe worst, if i couldnt get the job description my degree was suppose to lead me to.
to be honest, i would just work fulltime, and get a part time study and live at home with your parents, you can save heaps quicker and invest at a much faster rate than the rest of the guys your age, who are either studying fulltime, and working parttime.
and yes, depending on your investments, they can be making money for you, from day one, allowing less comitment to your job, from an early stage.
another thing to is, most people who know me on the forum, can tell you i work a sh*t job and that i am still in school, but its what i do, with the money, that amazes people and how quickly you can multiple over night, and another thing to is, that, i no longer want a degree for another reason, if i want to know something and need the advice from a professional – that is what i pay them for, not for my self to go out there and study and then waste another 3 years or more of my life.
another thing to is, my 16 year old brother has just dropped out of school, and only finished year 10, he is honestly not worried about a degree but instead of going on to year 11 and 12, has jumped the queue and is going to tafe, doing the subjects he just wants to learn, while at the same time, he is learning and trading the share market.
what i can guarantee you is, if he was to follow, what most people do, by going on finishing year 12 getting a degree and then getting a secured job, he would be no where near as financial educated as he is at his young age now and more well equiped than his buddies.
uni doesnt promise a job, and quite honest its to much theory vs not much practical learnt, any extra pay you get, from your job when you finish uni, aint going to be going to you direct… it will go off to your hecs, and you will just break at even like the most of us.
to be honest, just learn to invest, get a profession, but remember a profession does not require a degree, and enjoy it, and break the rules every once in a while.
Cheers,
sisI thought that this thread would have to have some objective data sooner or later, so here it is… In case anyone is wondering, DEST is the govt body which adminsters all public education in Australia. The EIP’s are investigative projects commissioned from DEST and the material found in them, and conclusions drawn, are then used to create policy within DEST.
I stated before that incomes for degree-qualified people are much higher than for those with a high school qualification. The figure is 50% higher. So if you are one of the exceptions to the rule, great… but let’s not deny the reality. Thre report begins by saying that the correlation between education and employment success is “One of the strongest empirical regularities” known. Hence, it cannot be disputed just because we want it to be.
Here’s the beginning of the EIP with the link to follow:
__________________________“One of the strongest empirical regularities in the Australian labour market is the positive association between educational attainment and labour market success. In analyses that examine the average income return to years of education, each additional year of education is associated with around eight per cent additional income. More detailed accounts of the labour market performance of the better educated have examined the income returns to different types of education. It has been reported that individuals who possess a degree have incomes around 50 per cent higher than those whose highest educational attainment is the completion of high school, while the income advantages of individuals who hold either a diploma or a certificate are 40 per cent and 10 per cent, respectively (see Preston (1997)). Similarly, when the determinants of unemployment rates are considered, the better educated are shown to have lower unemployment rates than early school leavers. The advantages of the tertiary educated in this regard are considerable (see Le and Miller (2000)).”
http://www.dest.gov.au/archive/highered/eippubs/eip00_9/default.htm
From that report it seems that skilled vocational qualification is probably a good option still.
The female comparison was very interesting, could this result be a representation of the fact that a decent % of women with degrees may still leave the work force for the family (and the ‘glass ceiling’). In that one the skilled vocational qualification still performed well.
On TodayTonight was story of a Uni girl ( couple of degrees )trying to now get a job, now ‘overqualified’for a lot of job’s and ‘inexperienced’ for any others..
same show, Apprenticeships in the trades go begging, you cant find a bricklayer..
good brickie can earn $2000pwk
some people i know are like this girl, degree not worth paper its written on..
And some ay TAFE’s better than UNI, more practicle experience too
Y
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