Robert G Allen

Celivia, you think I am joking about you possibly going to be involved in a courtcase.

People in the US are very litigious, they try to take someone to the cleaners at the drop of a head.

Has happened before and will happen again.

Better (and cheaper) to make an apology stating that you made an honest mistake and would like to clean the slate.

It doesn’t cost you anything and is definitely cheaper than feeding some hungry barrister.

Pisces

I don’t really know Celivia. I guess time will tell. In the meantime trey to sleep peacefully at night. [evo]

The better question however is ‘Why do so many people have a gripe about Robert Allen ?

Is it the material he is teaching or the price he charges ?

The material ?
I think it is twofold i.e. it consists of (a) technical knowledge and (b) motivation.

Is there any problem with that in your mind Celivia ?

Or is it the fact that the size of the cost of the seminar is too large for your liking ?

I am not holding a brief for Mr Allen, far from it. It makes me sick however to see the kind of unjustified knocking that goes on.

The point is that if the anticipated knowledge isn’t to your liking the solution is simple i.e. Don’t attend the seminar.

If it is because of the price think again.

We know already that the knowledge Robert Allen spreads is also available in many books at a lot lower cost.

So if the issue is that he charges some $ 4 K and you have a problem with that then, again, don’t go and, instead, spend two or three hundred dollars on a number of books as well as spending a few months on a couple of free websites.

So, other than the above, Celivia (and others), what is the problem ?

People being shaken out ? People being misled ?
People being told that they can make a fortune and the reality being that many simply will not go on and even put in more than a token effort ?.

Whose fault is that ?

This is a free world and anyone can charge anything they like or would you prefer the alternative i.e. that the price of everything is controlled and one’s world becomes a shamble (like has happened in the countries which had the well intended communistic system in place) ? .

Let me give you another example.
There is an organisation which appeals to would be could be car racing drivers.

Some 15 or more years ago they, then, were charging some $ 20,000 for their product.

Today they probably charge say $ 30 K or perhaps even $ 40 K.

What is it they are selling ? They provide driving lessons in a high speed racing car. The participants get to drive an expensive actual race car and get to experience all what is involved in racing an expensive, high powered, fine tuned motor car.

Something they always had a wish to do. At the end of the course the best student get to actually participate in a race and, if the course is able to bring out exceptionally driving qualities who knows where he will finish up at in the racing world.

People fall over themselves to join. How else will they ever drive a million dollar car and fulfill their dream by getting the experience and the thrill of doing what they always have dreamed about ?.

Will they all go on and change their career ? No, of course not. Everyone is well aware of the fact that of say 20 participants only one, the best one, will succeed and go on into a race (or races).

Are they being ripped off ? Do they feel ripped off ? I doubt it very much.
I think they feel ecstatic for the experience. How else would they ever experience driving such an expensive car with a support team and no responsibility if they roll the car into a write off situation ?

Now what is the difference between the would be could be (the majority) never will be car racing drivers and the participants in any other kind of seminar (including the Robert Allen affair) ?

No difference. In Robert Allen’s course I think we can safely assume that most will not reach their dream to the fullest extent. mOst will, for one reason or another, not reach their fullest potential. Does the fault lie with the matrial ? Or the teacher ? Or one’s personal make up ? (being lazy, fearfull and thus not prepared to act, etc etc).

Who do the knockers think they are that they feel they want to protect the innocents.

It is already clear that some people have as a matter of course an ulterior motive for knocking someone.

It may be because they are publicity seekers rather than supporters of the innocents and naïve ?
it may be because they have psychological problems and by acting they do they may feel better within themselves ?

They may be a bit soft on top themselves and unable to think things out.

There may be a myriad of other reasons for their knocking.

However, what is the excuse for the knockers on this website ?

Is it the material they object about ?
Is it the size of the seminar charges ?
Is it to protect ‘innocents’ ?

Innocents ? Are the seminar attendants mentally handicapped ? Do they need a protector ? Do they not get a ten day (?) cooling off period ? Are they soft on top and ten days isn’t a long enough period to work things out for themselves ?

Or are you perhaps closet communists ?

Is it Robert Allen’s fault if many of the participants do not succeed because something in their make up stops them from going out to do the things, the work, necessary to
succeed ?

You don’t get a certificate at the end of the seminar as far as I know. You do however get to grow in knowledge and experience. Is it not up to oneself what one does with the newly acquired knowledge ?

Pleeze give me some understanding where you knockers are coming from. What exactly is your gripe ?

Pisces

Pisces

My gripe?

Their motives. These people are such successful investors or in businesses, yet they feel the need to charge exorbitant prices to come to their seminars. They claim they have secrets – their newspaper ads are all the same – big print jumping off the page to suck people in. They have no secrets. All the information is readily available in a much cheaper form elsewhere.

What are they really successful at? Outside of investment and personal improvement type seminars, what others charge thousands for a few days training? Probably none because they know that a few days training is not that expensive.

If a person is a multimillionaire through investment, what is it that drives them to want to make $1 million for a two-day seminar, say? Why would you bother? Your investments are making you all the money you need and more, aren’t they? How ethical is it? If there are any seminar presenters reading this, tell me. I’m very interested in your motives.

If you are a successful investor, I respect your right to run seminars at a reasonable price. Wouldn’t you be happy with $20,000, say, for a few days work? You would be helping people and making extremely good money.

I don’t want to indicate that all seminar presenters are driven by greed. However, in my opinion a lot of them are and they need to take a good look at themselves.

Let’s face it, most of us could do the same thing as the gurus through the knowledge we have built up – not necessarily that we have put it all into practice. However, most of us don’t have two vital ingredients to carry it off: lack of ethics and lack of salesmanship. You really need to be able to sell yourself, don’t think a lot about your ethics and have the hide of a rhino. Then you have a good chance of making it work.

So, Pisces, I continue to challenge seminar presenters in what they’re doing. If you don’t you take things at face value and will be taken advantage of. We all need to challenge ideas and do our research so we don’t get hyped.

>>I am not sure why you found it so essential for Celivia to make a public apology…<<

Kay, you have known me now for some time and should know really better. I like to pull people’s legs. It is only when I call someone an ‘idit’ or tell him/her that he/she is telling BS that I am serious.

>>But I still think this Forum is a place that we can provide balanced perspectives.<<

I agree. But ……….. , it is hardly a
b-a-l-a-nc-e-d perspective if there isn’t a sound reason for one’s objection.

Robert Allen’s methods do work no doubt about it. But it requires hard work and some common sense.

So all those people who call out ‘ASIC, come and stop him’ are barking up the wrong tree.

Pisces

>>I think pressure should be placed on seminar presenters to open their books and show us the hard evidence they are successful with their investments – not give us some glossy blurb in a newspaper ad.<<

I agree 100% with that provided they are making claims that they have done this or done that.

However, your statement “…. don’t really add much to his first book. But boy is he getting richer and richer!”really says a lot more about you than about Kiyusaki.

>>These seminar presenters are not Gods. Many books can do the same thing as long as you get the motivation to do something. And it is much cheaper. Also you can never really replace trial and error as a means of learning.<<

Fine, go for it.

It’s fine to be positive and pumped up to be a successful investor. But after the hype fades, it is only your dedication that will see you through.

Yes, I agree, we all prefer to just receive a magic pill. Swallow it and one will be drenched with the right attitude.

That isn’t however how it works.

What is your gripe about Robert Kiyosaki exactly ?

I bought two of his books at the same time after having been sucked in by the publicity blurb in a newspaper. I threw them away because, to me, they were rubbish.

However, it is a free world. The man can write as many as he likes. Just as you are free to either buy them or not buy them.

Pisces

Pisces

I don’t buy Robert Kiyosaki’s books anymore. I can get them from the library if I want, so I don’t have to fund his lifestyle. I have said in this and other posts my feelings about him. I have stated I believe he has done a lot of good in motivating us.

Yack made a good point. We often get the tired old line: if we didn’t charge a high price, you wouldn’t value the information. What tripe, but it generally has the desired effect and sucks people in. You see a lot of these lines are designed to play on the insecurities of people and make them sign up or buy a product.

“Tonight only we’ll give you a $1,000 off the price…”

“Rich people are decision-makers, so make a commitment to…”

It’s all subtle (or sometimes in your face) pressure tactics to help you part with your money before you’ve had time to think about it.

It is my goal to bring a sense of reality to all the hype. I’m more into shares than property at this point so have been exposed to a lot of the hype associated with share trading – “we’ll show you how to trade the share market in half an hour each day so you can leave your job forever.” Yeh right, and Father Christmas is a real person!

Steve McKnight’s book has been one of the best I’ve read, mainly because he wrote it without hype. We could do with more of that.

I think Robert G. Allen got a wealth of knowledges. I am sure he teach what he know best and at the same time making money. That’s life.

I also went to his introductory on 18/05/04, but I don’t think I will spent $4000 just to go to his course because I believe if I go to his seminar I don’t think I can take everything in. I rather buy home study video and so for. that way I can review the information any time I want.

Researching and learning the way to go. Open up for new opportunity and at the same time be sceptical is also ok.

Kind regards

Chan Dollars
[Retire Young, Retire Rich] [strum]

Absolutely Yack. You evaluate the worth of information on the basis of respect for the person giving it, or what you can do with it. Whether you paid for it or not has nothing to do with its value, e.g. you can get valuable information by reading books from the library. Did you pay for it? Nuh. We need to challenge all these useless cliches that are supposed to be truths.

Don’t take everything as gospel. People shouldn’t be too trusting. I can tell you from personal experience you will be ripped off if you are. Challenge everything in the world of investment before you commit.

Just out of curiosity how does he difine a “Millionaire”?
If it’s just a million in assetts, i can teach you that, and i’ll do it for considerably less money too.