When the Today Tonight program was aired, I was intrigued by Steve’s claims, as were many others (I am sure Steve’s bank account can attest to that).
I bought Steve’s book and found it contain outdated information and generally it was unrealistic in today’s marketplace. The whole premise of the book is based around positive gearing, but certainly Steve’s 11-second rule was totally out of touch with what was going on and any properties showing this kind or return were either non-existent or extremely chancy.
It was interesting reading the posts around the time of the book’s release because there was a whole host of Newbies looking for advice. For those who placed posts questioning the reliability of Steve’s figures and complained that they were finding it difficult to find such properties, all these self appointed gurus, who are regulars on Steve’s site, got on the attack and spouted all the usual rhetoric about how such properties did exist but no one was going to do it all for them, they had to do the hard yards themselves… and so on.
At the time there was a fair few posts from people who were desperate to find that positively geared property, but some of the places they were looking were just outrageously risky. There were so many amateur property investors out there taking tips from this guy who promised they too could do what he did (and let’s not deny that this was the basic message relayed through Today Tonight: anyone can do it, it’s not that difficult).
I posted a critique of the book outlining issues with the outdated content and unrealistic examples that were no longer relevant at the time of the book release. I also criticised the lack of caution expressed in the book (this discussion thread, along with others lead to Steve including an additional chapter on risk). On top of that, and a point still missed by those that keep defending Steve and his book, I suggested that ethics of targeting an audience who did not have the wherewithal to make this work were questionable. It was aimed at Joe Blow on the street. A Joe blow who would never make this work as long as they had a hole in their ars#. And the ultimate proof of this was the failure of the Today Tonight show project. It would surprise me if more than a dozen of those that read Steve’s book have reached its purported goals as a result of the information in the book alone (not forgetting those that are in the poo as a result). And again spare me the speech about how some of the information is useful and it has to be taken as part of a wider research etc etc ad nauseam. That fundamentally misses the point; it was a sales pitch!
I still do not think Steve gave a satisfactory response to his critics, on or off this site and if it ever got too sticky they were given the flick with the reason given as being “negative” or inconsistent with the purpose of the site. In fact the site format was altered in what appeared to be an attempt to redirect some of the criticism to other areas less prominent.
Since that time this site has gone right down hill. It’s now a club dominated by a handful of super”stars” (lets not forget the stars) with one central viewpoint, Steve’s (dare I say Sycophants, Mini).
Whilst Steve always appeared to avoid responding to the questionable way the book was marketed, the site did have its comical side. You could always predict the responses to a “negative” post to a tee; they’d back Steve to the hilt, knock the knocker and finish with a flurry of other peoples’ sayings – very amusing herd mentality.
So am I an agent of Neil Jenman? No. I just had a point to make in the first place, but on a quiet day I kill a bit of time chucking a few cats out there amongst you pigeons (don’t they flock). My views may be out of kilter with the bias of this discussion group, but they always get the best ratings. Obviously this proves that people like to hear alternative opinions and not just the one single voice.
quality
whole weekend to think about a response hey martin.
yr tone is littered with self righteous, self important statements like
‘very amusing herd mentality, sycophants, cats among the pigeons’.
and then taking some lame credit for somehow being insightfully controversial is also the height of self dellusionment.
the truth is i dont think anyone has a problem with some of the questions you have raised – its just the tone with wch you have raised them makes you sound like a tosser.
brgds
Originally posted by aussierogue:whole weekend to think about a response hey martin.
yr tone is littered with self righteous, self important statements like
‘very amusing herd mentality, sycophants, cats among the pigeons’.
and then taking some lame credit for somehow being insightfully controversial is also the height of self dellusionment.
the truth is i dont think anyone has a problem with some of the questions you have raised – its just the tone with wch you have raised them makes you sound like a tosser.
brgds
Hey there valued contributor, maybe you’ll get another star now.
Martin,
I’m pretty sure that the today tonight program hasn’t failed – there seem to be several participants who still post here and are doing quite well. As for the details of what the program was trying to achieve, and whether it was really a challenge, that is another story altogether.
I don’t follow Steve’s ideas in the least but this forum is quite handy to share ideas etc with like minded individuals. It is a far more agressive environment now than it was 6-8 months ago.
You are just going to piss people off by coming in with your big stick saying this can’t be done, that can’t be done, he’s a liar etc etc etc, especially when people are still successfully using these methods.
I saw the book as more of a story than a guide btw, a re-telling of what was achieved and how it was done, rather than a Tony Robbins style, guru swami, do as I do or be poor forever presentation.
Perhaps if you just presented your argument a little less self righteously you may get more level headed answers. Call me a dickhead and I’ll call you one back – challenge me constructively anf I’ll give you my views and we can have a debate, not an argument.
A.
I liked what martinw said, though perhaps he could have said it a bit more politely.
i have been looking into the 11second rule etc as per steves book and yes i do think its outdated. alot of the RE books are. i have been trying to find information on how the rules have changed today, not how they were 3 years ago. of interest is that i still havent found any new way of inventing the wheel. all i know is that i have to think outside the square, and put time in the market. anyone thinking that being a millionaire is an easy trip is deluding themselves.
play nice guys (please?) i enjoy everyones contribution to this forum and i know more now than i did 8 months ago.
cheers
shaunLead, Follow or get out of the bloody way
WINDUP ALERT !!!!
Hehehehehe… and you guys bit !!!
Martin – I must commend you… your posts are a fun read, and, the responses are on some occasion predictiable…. In much the same way your postings are also predictable…..
Sorry, don’t have time to read all posts you’ve made…. busy investing…… and making money….
they’d back Steve to the hilt, knock the knocker and finish with a flurry of other peoples’ sayings – very amusing herd mentality.
A wise saying goes ‘ a man that does not draw from the knowledge of others is a man that is continually thirsty’Actually i just made that one up, you can use it if you like when replying to any other posts…
Originally posted by WallFlower:they’d back Steve to the hilt, knock the knocker and finish with a flurry of other peoples’ sayings – very amusing herd mentality.
A wise saying goes ‘ a man that does not draw from the knowledge of others is a man that is continually thirsty’Actually i just made that one up, you can use it if you like when replying to any other posts…
And a man who draws from the one well risks meeting the same people every day with the same opinions, same outlook and same mentality.
Martin, so Steeve book is outdated. What did you expect for a RE book written about 2 years ago?
A useful investment book provides valuable information to investors about negative and positive cash flow. Such concepts are market neutral and can be applied anywhere on the planet anytime. The variation in our local market has no bearing on the values of the book. Did Steve promise you to freeze time and allow you to make 1998 deals in 2004? Well the time machine has not been invented yet my friend.
You seem to have more issues about other people’s success than you have with your own success or lack of it. I would start with concentrating on your own goals and forget the others. If it bothers you that some have 100 properties, there are some I know who own 1200 properties and counting. Did they cheat because they started in the seventies? Did you miss the pre 1987 prices bonanza? What about the 1991 price bonanza? Did you catch the cheap prices in the NSW South coast 3 years ago? Well my friend as you are here typing away at your local whinge, some good deals are being done by others as we speak.
I just finished counting $2800 from rent that came in my bank account being for 2 weeks rent from a block of flats I bought in XXXX a month ago, positive to the hills.Steeve book is not as good as it is purported to be? Good news, books never are the ultimate response to life. Napoleon Hill wrote a book some 50 years ago, entitled Think and grow rich. It is an all time classic, it has answers to most questions people pose themselves today, yet generations have knocked it and dismissed its claims. Horses for courses, may be investing is not for you after all.
May God prosper you always.[biggrin]
Marc“but certainly Steve’s 11-second rule was totally out of touch with what was going on and any properties showing this kind or return were either non-existent or extremely chancy.”
Yeah… and thats why I am still finding good, solid property that meet the 11 sec solution… In fact I’ve bought 5 so far this year…
“And a man who draws from the one well risks meeting the same people every day with the same opinions, same outlook and same mentality.”
I would rather risk meeting people who are succesful, rich, intelligent and happy, rather than morons or idiots. In fact I’m happy that there is a ‘flock’ that has a similar outlook and goals. As I said before it’s better than being with morons… Who do you ‘flock’ with again? (pigeons by any chance???).
Rgds.
Lucifer_auMartinW
I like to hear alternative views as well. I still believe there are inherent long term problems with positive geared properties. ie. rural properties dont appreciate as quickly as surburban/city properties.
Investing is really about buying assets that appreciate and make you wealthy over a period of time.
I dont believe everthing I read, hear or am told. If I did, I would never have bought my first property bak in 1997.
Originally posted by Marc1:Steeve book is not as good as it is purported to be? Good news, books never are the ultimate response to life. Napoleon Hill wrote a book some 50 years ago, entitled Think and grow rich. It is an all time classic, it has answers to most questions people pose themselves today, yet generations have knocked it and dismissed its claims. Horses for courses, may be investing is not for you after all.
May God prosper you always.[biggrin]
MarcWonders if Martin thinks the Richest Man in Babylon is outdated also? It must be coz they didn’t have money or even paper back then. Hmmmmmmmmmm lets not forget that Babylon doesn’t even exist now, so it must be outdated.
Must have even been outdated before it was even written.
Regards Bear
I had been applying the rules in Steves book for many years before he wrote it and trust me it still works today. The 11 second rule is what I swear by, there are plenty of properties out there. Get off your proverbials and go find them.
MartinW…
And a man who draws from the one well risks meeting the same people every day with the same opinions, same outlook and same mentality.
Glad to see my quote spurred and inspired you to rise and develop it further.Varity isn’t always the spice of life..There is merit to sticking to a strategy and seening out the consequences.
My husband is glad I drink from only one well..nice to see everyone wasting so much energy on this thread… in the days since it started we got busy and bought 3 houses, wrapped 2, and, are looking at another 3…..
folks, get back on track…. PROPERTY INVESTING……
This whole thread was a WINDUP…. and you all went for it….. me included at first…..
Martin is fully entitled to his opinion, just as we are ours…. doesn’t mean we all have to agree…..
Get out there and start DOING something, instead of sitting in here and whining about it….
That sounds to me as a cold hard slap [confused2]
Originally posted by Pelicaninvestments:WINDUP ALERT !!!!
Hehehehehe… and you guys bit !!!
Martin – I must commend you… your posts are a fun read, and, the responses are on some occasion predictiable…. In much the same way your postings are also predictable…..
I just knew that someone was going to say this or something similar! [biggrin]
And, Pelicaninvestments, you responded to this thread twice yourself, so you ‘wasted more energy’ replying to it than the majority of people who replied![biggrin]
Celivia,
Yeah, well I was bored…..
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