Celivia’s replies in maroon
Quote:Originally posted by Aceyducey:Celivia, NEVER confuse what is legal with what is ethical.
It may be in your opinion unethical to pay less than someone asks for a property – however it is 100% legal. With a willing seller & a willing buyer whatever price is agreed is fair. Using information or relative power to influence that point is also legal up to the point where you actually break a law.
Acey I did not say that paying less than asking price for a property is unethical. WHat I said was that taking advantage of people in financial difficulty and paying PEANUTS for a property is not OK (whether it’s legal or not. We all know that the legal system/law needs updating from time to time and is sometimes lagging).
Negotiating a price which both buyer AND vendor are happy with is fine in MY viewpoint.
It’s (knowingly) ruining people’s lives by badly lowballing the real value of a property that in MY view is unethical and should be made illegal.
Stealing someone’s hard work – be it their writing, their singing or other copywritten material is ILLEGAL. Whether you believe it is ethical or not doesn’t enter into it.
True, Acey, the point is whether it’s legal, not whether it’s unethical. Did I say it was ethical, tell me where I said that?
I do agree with you that it is neither legal nor ethical.But all I was saying (or trying to say) is that REGARDLESS whether it’s illegal people still do borrow CDs etc of friends or even copy it. I am talking about reality here.
So all I wanted to do is make the point clear that Native Metal gets attacked badly for having a copy of Steve’s Nobrainer in his possession, whereas it is very likely that the people criticising him have actually themselves borrowed or copied materials from friends.I do respect you if you do have such incredibly high standards and ethics to never borrow anything at all yourself. THere are not many saints on Earth who never do anything unethical or illegal!
SO do you now understand the point I was making: Pot blaming the kettle for being black case.
I was not making the point: I find this ethical!Frankly your viewpoint needs to be reconsidered. I bet you wouldn’t feel the same way if you had ever produced a work and sold it under copyright…then seen some people boasting about how they have an illegal copy. It’s dollars for feeding your family and it’s just plain rude as well (which is Steve’s point).
I’m sure this point doesn’t have to be discussed since I have explained above my viewpoint and you surely understand it now.
In case you don’t: Yes I do think it’s unethical.
BUT in reality people DO borrow and copy.
Except of couse for saints like yourself who always refuse to borrow from friends.If you hold the view that everyone who publishes a work under copyright is wealthy and ‘can afford it’ – well you’re the one deluding yourself and behaving unethically!
Acey where did I say that it is my view that EVERYONE who pyublishes a work under copyright is wealthy and can afford it????
Well lucky it wasn’t me who said hat, otherwise I would have been deluding myself and behaved unethically!
I feel you are attacking me on things that I have not said, that are merely YOUR interpretation of what I said that you are attacking.Think about your attitude some more.
OK Acey I will think about my attitude some more, I always thing about my attitude because I do realise I am not perfect, there is room for improvement or to update my attitude!
Nobody is perfect, we are all learning and making mistakes and struggle with our attitudes and morals in life.
So, Acey, keep the advice coming, it’s great to have the help of someone who has already done the hard work and sitting upon that pedestal. For me, I’m still climbing, so do reach out to us, us mere mortals!
Well said Celivia I support your point of view 100%. Whoever said that they never borrow or copy stuff…I don’t believe them.
Kind regards
Chan Dollars
[Retire Young, Retire Rich] [strum]Aceyducey,
I am sorry to say, but I think things have gotten blown out of perspective here. Celivia is right, nowhere did she actually mention the word ethical, although I do see that you could have read it as an implication of such. However, it is simply a case of Celivia voicing her opinion about a common (yet, unquestionably illegal) practice.
It does happen all the time; that doesn’t make it right, but unfortunately it is not something that can be policed 100% (the internet is a great example). And besides, there is really little action one can take (legally speaking) unless that work is reproduced for material gain. In short, this is not totally “black-and-white” or “cut-and-dry” there are many shades of grey here.
Celivia did not say anything against Steve or anyone else, nor did she mention the ethics in what transpired in the original message. Her opinion is as valid as is yours to you; she has the right to her opinion as do you yours.
C’mon, you know better than that. And that comment about her attitude……I thought better of you than that…..that is the kind of heated comment one would expect of me (I can get quite “nasty” at times, just ask RussH !!!!). Your posts have always proven (by what I’ve read) to be fairly level-headed and unheated.
Let’s play nice….
Jo
I’d like to refer back to my original question, about the il/legality of having in one’s possession the work of an author that one has not paid for.
The Copyright act of Australia states that one is able to copy 10 percent or 1 chapter of a book- legally. Having in one’s possession the work of another is not illegal. People may gift books to another, may loan, or may drop it on the street! I remember when I moved to sydney, I had to give away hundreds of books, and I put them in a dumpster charity site. I gave away heaps of records too. Am I in breach of copyright or is the recipient? Absolutely not! God, who hasn;t roamed a second-hand book or record store? would say if you haven’t, that you are the poorer for not having done so- they’re fun [biggrin]
So the question is not a moral one- it’s a legal one. I stand by saying that Naive_metal has not done anything wrong by having Steve’s document in his hands. It was obvoiusly a gift from a friend. People might also note that Native’s original post was very respectful. Fact is, he is not in breach of copyright.
I don’t know why people have to personalise this so much. Native was not attacking or undermining Steve. He came across a resource and asked questions about it. I don’t understand the controversy.
kay henry
Dont sweat the small stuff and its all small stuff!!
Pay for something you get what you pay for, get something for nothing and what do you value it as…..nothing.Life is to short and with all these posts who has missed a good oportunity.
DD
Hi There,
Man, this place can be like a tennis match sometimes. I’m getting a crook neck from watching ;}
Back to the issue of Dave’s plan. Yes it works. I know of one smart lass, who’s doing an excellent job of following this plan and will be a very happy girl in the future.Back to the original question folks.
Cheers
Soosh
When a problem is created the solution is created simultaneously
Sooshie, I wasn’t sure that we were ‘allowed’ to answer the question [cap].
Native, I could make a guess and say that Steve and Dave earned/saved the money from their accounting, but that won’t really help you.
What you need to do (in my opinion) is to look to see how you could come up with the deposits to go ahead with the strategy. Admittedly, the prices are more expensive than (presumably – I have not seen the info, merely heard bits and pieces about the strategy) when it was written, so deposits will be higher.
Maybe to start with you could only buy 2 properties per year, but I think once you get started, it’s a bit of a momentum thing, that you will get more in rents, and still be saving the same amount from your job, and may be able to redraw some equity (which goes against the paying them off thing I guess, but necessary if you wish to buy more and can’t save to keep up!) etc. etc.
Cheers
Mel
You must be logged in to reply to this topic. If you don't have an account, you can register here.
