Politations should be made to run their own business in the black before they enter parliment and play with our tax money !!![satan]
my 2c for what it’s worth![biggrin]
In the ACT there is no land tax threshold either, so I’m used to paying it on every property. In NSW there is also no (or very very low) land tax threshold if you own properties through trusts or companies, so any of those investors pay it anyway. If they drop the effective rate then I’ll be happy about that.
As for the stamp duty – I agree it’s a bugger. As someone else has said, it will also go more to the govt coffers than to help first home buyers. I don’t really think it’s the stamp duty that’s keeping them out of the market – it’s more the sky high prices.
I really don’t like to sell any properties anyway, so I’m working on that not affecting me either.
Of note, immediately the news was ‘broken’ the ACT govt was pretty much called upon to follow suit ‘or else we will find all the first home buyers crossing the border to buy their houses’! Not much mention of the land tax (not an issue for us so obviously no mention), and of the stamp duty on sale.
Cheers
MelKay,
you raise some valid points. Do you think rents will increase as a result?
Timbo
Rents will definately increase in my opinion over the next 18 months which is exactly what happened between 85/87.
Profits are better than wages, when all this settles down property is still the prefered investment vechile to create wealth.
Phil
Thanks Phil,
TimboFOr the record I only own my own home in NSW so the stamp duty does not affect me. But I am still willing to have a go.
Pisces have you never heard the saying? the pen is mightier than the sword? I suggest individual responses are far better because each one is a potential voter. By all means JOIN a group, but dont lose your individiality either! And dont be so slack that you leave others to do what you whinge about.
Does parliament call you? well get cracking Pisces
As for the great Depression, I wasnt born then, but the stories the old man up the road inparted, adn the neighbour a stocky, bushman told me endure. Walking miles and miles away from family just to find work, something to put food on the tables of your family.
Well this is no great depression, I wonder if in our lifetime we will ever be so ‘humbled’
Yes there will be winners, those that wait for the right time to buy, those that dont care about the stamp duty. Good luck to you, but there are people out there no different to me, trying to save it might be for their retirement, it might be because super was not available to them when they worked. It might be as a result of wanting to provide for their family, kids or grand children, dont begrudge anyone that opportunity or that right. Who are “you” to judge who is a real investor and who is not? SHAME shame shame!
there are opportunists and there are vultures that prey on the misfortunes of others…..
elves
” a blind man may see what a sighted man may not”
>>Does parliament call you? well get cracking<<
Eves, I am a citizen of the world, I am not an Australian and have deliberately avoided that (basically because of the advantage of having a European passport).
And, as far as what you say below is concerned, we all are very lucky (not to be in that situation as described hereafter) because I believe that many people did it very tough during the depression going, many wandering from town o town and knocking on doors looking for a day’s work.
And, if they didn’t pick up a bit of work they would go hungry.
I hope, Elves, that the rest of your post isn’t, wasn’t, directed at me.
Pisces
Guys, I think you are getting off track here….[offtopic]………….
The main point on this thread is about the so called end of the NSW property investing market……
Whilst I respect Steve’s thoughts on this, I disagree with him…..
If you look at the teachings of so many of the “gurus” out there…… We should all be sitting back, and start to wait for the opportunities to float to the top…….
It’s in times like this that the “men are seperated from the boys”
I found Dallas story to be very good….. I didn’t see the point Pisces in your having a go at him. He was simply reciting a story told by a parent….. You harped on about Jews… SHEESH…. [jerry]
There are people out there in times like this, who shout DOOM / GLOOM….. There are others out there who shout OPPORTUNITY !!!!!
Cheers
Scott
markets will adjust – NSW property must be worth less now compared to other places (not absolutley but relative to their yield) because of these taxes and they will be priced accordingly.
My concern would be the lack of new housing stock that will be offered to the market (particularly first home owners) as developers/investors move to other markets. Seems like a very regressive tax and quite a backward step given all the efforts that have been made in tax reform over the last decade or so. The whole problem comes back to our over governance – so many layers of governement all taxing us to the hilt! The trouble is our standard of living here is too mediocre – not bad enough to revolt over, not good enough to get excited about ==> apathy results.
Originally posted by Rugbyfan:Knowing how greedy both the WA and QLD state governments are, I dare say it will spread in time.
Depends if ‘Hollywood’ Beattie wants to spend hundreds of millions of dollars on another football stadium again or not…
This new tax is NSW’s method of playing ‘catch-up’ to other states since the tax will take $ (indirectly) out of the GST fund given to all states later. They have a beef with the federal government over this and this is their petty method of getting back at the federal government.
Don’t ya just love politicians? [hmm]
I wonder how many people who responded on this thread spouting their opinion (including myself) have as yet actually read the Mini-Budget Speech delivered by the Treasurer ?
How many of those have read it before spouting their opinion ?
(Go to the very first post in this thread and click onto the Mini Budget button if you haven’t read it yet)
Pisces
The tax man is always looking at ways to increase the coffers on the pretense (my opinion) of whatever is topical at the time, be this health transport or something else. Trouble is despite NSW having a huge population and we being I beleive a very highly taxed state, the systems they say need the extra funding have been crying out for years. I want to know where all the money really goes.
Gee think back, smokes went up for the smokers, petrol and insurances, rego and the likes, not cheap…go to QDL and you find petrol some 10-20cents a litre cheaper why?
To say that the stamp duty will be added onto an investors property sale, and that for first home buyers will benefit is superficial, or maybe not, as there are fewer first home buyers than there are investors with properties…and while they have a right to get a home, if they want it, why is it those people are being treated differently than others? I rather think it discriminatory dont you?
So many people out there did not get assistance with their first home, and do not qualify, maybe timing, there may be many reasons why someone has no property, some choose not to own anyway but to rent. Why penalise those that wish to invest? They do support the economy in many many ways. Rather short sighted in my opinion of them to take this course of action.
Pisces: you state action, you mentioned politics, what are you doing? Is what I am thinking.
No it doesn’t need an answer it is rhetorical. As for keeping a European passport, why? is that your exit strategy? [biggrin]AS for great depression, I admire those that did what they did, is what I was saying, though I have never been through one to comment personally.
But dont tell me that writing is a waste of time!
” a blind man may see what a sighted man may not”
Tim,
You asked about rents increasing. Well, that’s something only the market can determine. If you check out API’s latest mag, they have the top 5 rent area increaes in Qld and the 5 that had the greates rent *reductions*. I guess some people will increase rents and try to make up that money for some time ahead in the future when they intend to sell their IP. But it depends on if their tenant is willing to pay that higher price.
There is still an oversupply in some areas of Australia. Tenants still have the power to choose our IP or another person’s. Some people will choose to raise their rents (based purely on this exit tax decision), but know they will hold their properties and not sell. It all depends on hoe much supply and demand there is in the future. And I doubt that can be determined by short-term taxation changes.
If you have a bunch of people in NSW now being able to afford their first home, then that bunch of people won’t be renting our IP’s, so it’s possible that the tenancy market will be tightened, and rents remain stable or reduce. But there will always be a rental market of students, families saving deposits, immigration, students etc. Just depends on where you are.
It is *possible* that some people who are renting in cheaper areas might now be able to afford to buy their own homes. But buying a very cheap place won’t make much difference in the affordability. They might save an extra $500-1000 on the purchase price. I guess some people will always be renters, and given that the govt has minimised their responsibilities to public housing, then private landlords have taken up the sslack.
Raising rents isn’t just a market thing either- it’s a matter (for me, at least) or ensuring tenants can afford the rents. Unless social security benefits, for example, go up, if you have social security tenants, they still need to be able to afford the rents. And if SS payments go up $3 a week, I wouldn’t be making that whole $3 a week come into my hands. SS tenants still have to be able to afford the other things in life too- milk, schooling their kids etc. That’s just ME though- others will have different perspectives.
Oops Tim- I just saw an article in the “up down and around” post on here which has an article on possible rent rises. Check that one out- I imagine it says the ideas somewhat better than I might have :o)
kay henry
I’ll just add another quick post here, so I don’t make the last one pathetically long.
Property investors have, over hte years, received a number of tax breaks and been the beneficiaries of a number of pro investor decisions. Did we *reduce* our rents based purely on those premises? Unlikely. If we see taxation changes as just part of the IP landscape, then it’s probably more logical to just ride out the changes. And let’s face it, many have done pretty well out of this boom. I know I have- in my own very small way.
Frankly, these tax changes are not gonna affect my investment plans one iota.
kay henry
I can’t help but strongly disagree.
We are taxed to the absolute hilt in this country – and one of the platforms with the introduction of GST was that stamp duty was going to be phased out.
Not only is this not the case, now we have a situation where a new tax will be introduced when a property has been sold.
And this particular tax, one on the sale of property, is fundamentally wrong in every way. What happens in a situation where a property keeps pace with inflation, say over 5 years, and then is sold? It will exceed the threshold and be taxed, yet no real gain will have been made.
Further, if one investment property is sold to another investor, then:
Investor A pays stamp duty on the way in
Investor A pays stamp duty on the way out
Investor B pays stamp duty on the way in, on a property that is being already taxed on the way outThis is like GST without any input credit!
No, I’m all for equality across the community and those well for help those who are not – but I can’t abide by this crazy nonsense of taxing people more to hide the chronic inability of governments to govern.
The property investors of NSW need to take a stance and say enough is enough.
Steve McKnight
**********
Remember that success comes from doing things differently.
**********Steve McKnight | PropertyInvesting.com Pty Ltd | CEO
https://www.propertyinvesting.comSuccess comes from doing things differently
Absolutely agree Steve. We were told GST would replace many hidden taxes as well but how many of you know the difference?
When I sold gifts in a store, ornaments were made out like salt and pepper shakers, this was then to avoid the added tax, in them days…it vaired according to what the product was and what it was to be used for. So if they put a hole in it top and bottom, guess what? I think you know.
I never wanted GST. I saw it in the USA and I saw it in the UK, and ours was going to be no different! Excpet for one thing, they didnt really work it out. The ppor staff in the tax office call centres had no idea whether this product oor that was GST’d, or exempt. The manual they had to read was worse than the Sydney yellow pages, the intensive training, why? because the idiotic politicians hadn’t thought it out.
So what percentage was it food and what wasn’t was it used for this or really was it cosmetic, I think you get the drift. So the investment scam is no longer the property moghuls out there we so fondly refer to….it is the likes of Carr and his cronies, or even the next set that comes along, This is not fair and it is not just.
Cheers
” a blind man may see what a sighted man may not”
I remember reading in an Australian investing book:
– 20 years ago 18 taxpayers per 1 welfare recipient
– today 6 taxpayers per 1 welfare recipient
– in 2020 1 taxpayer per 1 welfare recipientEven if these predictions are wrong it sure points towards Australia having an ongoing tax base where we are taxed more and more.
So while we might not like this, I kinda look at it and go ‘well you can understand (rightly or wrongly) that it is happening because of a decreasing revenue base for governments.
Sure they mismanage, and where the money goes is questionable.
However maybe it is more relevant to simply expect more and more of this and plan accordingly.
My 2c worth.
TImbo
You’re absolutely right Steve, we are taxed to the hilt in this country, and you have the Tories in Canberra to thank for that. Little johnny is the one who gave us the non core promise of never ever a GST. This is an insidious tax that affects EVERY Australian, unlike this revamp of NSW Stamp Duty.
The notion that the GST was supposed to phase out Stamp Duty (and a whole lot of other nasty taxes, including a major reduction in income tax – whatever happened to that ?) was just another con, promised by Costello just to sell the bloody thing in the first place. He was never in a position to make such a claim, and if anyone believed this, then whose fault is it ???
As for the pay when you buy, pay when you sell outcome, well, so what. If you dont sell, you dont pay at the end, and if you do sell, its just another expense that will be written off the capital gain at the end isn’t it ?
It seems to me, that Bob Carr’s getting a bit of his own back off Howard. Its ironic really. Howard rips off NSW GST payers to subsidise the barnyard bullies in the other states, therefore Carr raises taxes, that can be claimed as an expense through the Federal government.
Clever !!! Sly, but Clever.
Originally posted by Jerzy Balowski:…and you have the Tories in Canberra to thank for that.
LOL!!!!! (SLAP!)
Wake up and smell the coffee! I rather think it was a bipartisan effort.
I think GST went wrong when they started making exceptions. It should have been a flat tax on everything, that would have eliminated most of the subsequent confusion and headaches for business.
Maybe up front we saved paying GST on certain items, but I think we’ve probably paid for it in the long run anyway with increased business costs being passed on to the consumer.Keep smiling
Felicity
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