Rich is evil, poor is virtuous.

I would think that we really ought to have a seperate topic section for religion. [:o)]

Talking and quoting pieces from the bible is fraught with danger and pitfalls.

The biggest problem is that the fanatics think that they are the only ones who’ve got it right. Worse than that, they also seem to think that they have a Godgiven obligation to earbash others into submission.

Even to the extent, as history clearly shows, of killing others because they happen to have different opinions to them.

Remember the witch hunts which took place during the sixteenth century ? Or should that be forgotten because it happened so long ago ?

Unfortunate innocent women got accused of being a witch and being in cahoots with the devil.
To prove their guilt they were thrown in the water. If they floated it was proof that they were a witch.

Unfortunately the hierachy was consumed by so much zeal that they were prevented from applying some good common sense to realise that those unfortunates who were innocent (i.e. those who didn’t float but sank) drowned.

Looking at history I would suggest that mankind would have been a lot better off without the kind of organised religion as we know it.

Coming back to the bible (and the fanatics who bash their bible), most of them aren’t smart enough to realise that the written word can be interpreted in many ways, on many different levels.

The literal way (meant for the idits who believe everything in the bible to be true – which isn’t the case. Then again I have no wish to argue with irrational people – I prefer to tell them they are f/h’s) and then of course there are other levels of interpretation of the bible.

Take for example the story mentioned by our wellloved
Kay (yes kay we missed you whilst you were away) who said : “how about ít is harder for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to enter into the gates of heaven`?”

I hope you aren’t pulling poor Markpatric’s leg, Kay ?

It does of course illustrate how things get distorted by people.

Kay, shouldn’t that read instead : “It is harder for a rich man to enter into the gates of heaven than it is for a camel to go through the eye of a needle’ ???

That story cannot possibly be taken literally. One interpretation and explanation which makes a lot more sense goes as follows :

It is of course physically impossible for a camel to go through the eye of a needle so a more logical explanation has to be found.

There were several small openings in the wall surrounding the cities. For security reasons they were small. So small that a camel couldn’t just walk through but had to get on his knees in order to shuffle through the opening.

The implication that no rich man couldn’t go to heaven is absurd of course and cannot possibly be taken in the literal sense (though idits no doubt insist on doing just that).

If we draw a more reasonable conclusion i.e. that often rich men are consumed by greed and avarice and behave in an abominable way (though some of course do not), then the story starts to make a bit of sense.

A reasonable interpretation translates the story as meaning : It is difficult for a camel to go through the small security gate and even harder for a rich man to go to heaven.

>>If you have made wealth through property, be happy. But I don´t know why people have to say poor people are not living out God´s will because they are poor´I think that is verý mean-spirited.<<

Yes Yes Yes, Kay, I agree. Though I would say that they do this not because they are poor but out of ignorance.

Ignorant of the Universal Laws which Catherine Ponder talks about.

You know, the ones that talk about the fact that our thinking is what attracts the things which happen in our lives. (be they good or bad).

Another Law ? “As you sow, so shall you reap.”

Meaning as in : Talk nonsense and people will start to see you as an idiot.

Or, “Do good things and they will rebound on you.”

Or, “Make financially responsible decisions and in later life you’ve got something to fall back on”

My advice to those who want to preach and tell others how wrong they conduct themselves is to say to them : “Wouldn’t it make a lot more sense and wouldn’t it be a lot more impressive if people were to lead by example rather than with their mouth.”

None of that : “Do as I tell you, not as I do”.

You know, as it says somewhere in the good book : “Let him who is without sin throw the first stone.”

Let me finish up by pointing something else out which shows how screwed up people are (because they see everything from THEIR point of view.

Have a good look at those statues of Jesus which one finds in churches. A nice tall, white man with blue eyes. The truth is that, more likely than not, he would have looked more like a Palestinian (or, even more likely, like a swarthy Jew) than as a blue eyed
whitey.

So much for how truth is portrayed by us and to us.

Oh, by the way, I do consider myself as being a religious person (though not of the organised kind).

Pisces

Hi all

firstly pisces
i am inclined to agreed with you about organized religion this is not the form of faith that i practice, mine is about a relationship i have with god, a God who knows me and loves me, but not just me he loves all people.
Sadly wrong has been done in the name of religion by people, be careful not to throw out what truth there my be in things because people distort it for their own benifit.
rather that feel threatened (this is the way i interpret your comments) by people who want to discuss their views, surely as an open mature society we should be free to discuss our opinions without feeling threatened. Being free means we can say what we like so try not to belittle or riddicule others veiws, look at the alternatives in many countries.
regarding the eye of the needle interpretation you mentioned. That particular interpretation was first put forward by a Greek theologian named Theopholac(can’t remember how it is spelt off the top of my head) in the 10th century, 1,000 years after the words were spoken by Jesus. he said there is a gate called the eye of the needle in Jerusalem that a camel could as you say get down on its knees and enter the city. No other historical documents mention a gate called “the eye of the needle”. It is discredited today as comments by a man who was trying to gloss over the story to make it more appealing for the rich in his day. The very point Jesus was making is it IS IMPOSSIBLE for a rich man to enter Heaven by himself. Jesus then says that with God all things are possible there for if God works in his life he can be saved , as evident in the Zachheaus encounter.

regards westan

I find +ve cashflow deals in New Zealand which I sell to other investors. To be on my database send an e-mail to [email protected]

>>There is abundance everywhere in nature, abundance is natural & god given, so why should it be wrong to have your share?<<

Absolutely KewlDude

However, one may have all the seeds in the world but unless the ground is plowed and the seeds sown the farmer will not reap.

Again, ‘As you sow so shall you reap”

I firmly believe in this principle.

The one thing which I don’t understand about this God who has provided so much for us is that sometimes people get dished out a raw deal. Why did that happen ?

A child gets born severely handicapped. Why ? Why all the hurt to the parent ?

>>There is also a natural law of supply & demand. You hold an investment property. Another human needs shelter. You are supplying to their need. What is ungodly about this situation? Sure, you receive gain, but in doing so you are in turn able to service your needs. Besides, you’ve invested your own money & your own time, not only to serve yourself, but another human as well, who needs shelter, who may or may not be less fortunate than yourself. Just as our ancestors who mastered the art of hunting, reaped the benefits.<<

Exactly. It seems to me that it is only people with twisted minds who say ‘Money is evil.’

If only they said ‘The love of money is evil’ and I could and would agree with them.

Instead we get a tirade that we are a group of monsters trying to get some financial stability in our life.

Even a person like Kay who is a self professed atheist
appears to adhere to this kind of outlook.
I just don’t understand.

I was not responsible for the vendor being in financial strife. I am merely making an offer. I don’t see this as taking advantage of someone else.

Sell it to someone else for a higher price.

I too have been in the situation where I couldn’t sell and had debts to service and was forced to make decisions to sell at a loss.

I accept the situation and move on.

I certainly do not carry on with a victim’s mentality
and blame others for what happened.

KoolDude makes some further very pertinent remarks :

>>Secondly, it is not the money it’s self that is evil, as I’ve said before, money is neutral, it is the human thought form that attaches evil or good to it, and that is an individual choice.<<

and

>>Thirdly, money shouldn’t be your master, otherwise you become the slave.<<

Absolutely. No truer words have ever been said.

Pisces

Ever thought if Jesus got into reno jobs (given his carpentry skills), that the course of the Christian faith would have been different!!
(Just dumbing it down a bit – sorry)

James

Interesting that there is so much focus on a book commissioned by a roman emporer in the 3rd century AD when he decided that it would benefit him politcally to convert to christianity, considering christians were now a majority of his subjects.

Many other gospels were cast aside as they did not fit his vision for the good book. In initial versions Mary Magdalene was not a prostitute but this view was promoted by the church to subjugate the place of women in society. BTW these are called Gnostic Gospels.

Now many will see this as heretical but I prefer to picture myself as someone who likes to have as many facts as possible before making a decision. I also feel free to share these facts as the faithful have done extensively on this site.

I now think its time to put the respective weapons down and call this subject over. There are some interesting PROPERTY subjects we need your respective knowledge on.

James

Hi Folks

First my apology for leaving this thread as it is and where it is … until now … as I an not a religious person at all and therefore had no interest in the thread and had not been reading it.

I will add that I do fully respect any persons religious beliefs and have no problem sharing those beleifs with my friends along with their religious pratices, but trying to convince any person that there belief or faith is incorrect is fruitless.

Regards
Leigh K[]

Carve your own path and lead the way.

yeah, nothing like a bit of theology on a property investing website[:p]

‘Eat rich food, barbeque a yuppie’

v. good

Love it[^]

‘Eat rich food, barbeque a yuppie’

Ahhhh money.

There is much talk of money here – why do you have to have money to be rich?

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