Let hope henry ends up living in a very expensive home maybe one worth $100 million.
Yes Port Philip prison would have cost about that.westan
I find +ve cashflow deals in New Zealand which I sell to other investors. To be on my database send an e-mail to [email protected]
You say he can`t be blamed?.
If he did do what they said he did he most certainly IS an idiot.[
]Markpatric, what did ‘they’ say he did? I’m confused now.
Cheers
MelALl you have to do is read every day, who gets away with what….be they politiciancs taking bribes or using alledged money from questionable sources…be they the bonds or the HIH’directors of this world, or the families who benefit….we have a structure in this country that supports this…its called asset protection.
And we are no different. We are using the same principals in order to minimise and to maximise and to protect. Most people dont realise that when they shift assets to one partner in order to ‘write off’ some income, you are no different than they are with their structures…as for ethics of what they do and how they do it, the law doesnt appear to have room for those….
And while HE may have more than any of us, you dont have to agree or act in the same manner..just my thoughts..
elves
If governments were held accountable as per corporate industry, then HK would have a long line of Pollies to relate to…
From what I have been “fed” by the media, I hope he pays in some way for his actions. But what he has done is really not that different to what happens at Capital Hill every other day… except that they can take more than just your hard earned. Food for thought.
…emotion clouds good judgement but is a defining element of character.
Melbear, just go to the yahoo search engine and type in Henry Kaye.
He lined his own pockets by recruiting vulnerable investors at his seminars and sold them properties he purchased in bulk using false promises of discounts, massive capitol gain with no money down.
At the end of the day you will find as usual with this type of guy many disappointed investors out of pocket in some degree and HK running off like a thief in the night with a big bag of money and proclaiming none of it was his fault as the banks undervalued the units etc etc etc. []http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/09/21/1064082867568.html?from=storyrhs
Hi,
Let’s not get too carried away here.
Henry Kaye offered a service to a market of hungry buyers who didn’t necessarily stop to wonder how the system worked or it’s key assumptions (i.e. continued capital growth).
In my opinion it was a big game of musical chairs in that it kept going round and round, but when the music stopped there were going to be people without a seat.
Cynically, I know people who would say that the market is pure and those that lost simply had their wealth redirected to those that won.
This seems shallow to me, but I would say that there are lessons about due diligence that every investor should learn.
I believe that the fall of HK’s NII (which has already reinvested itself through various names and a constant stream of employees) marked the end of the cycle by oviding the psychological push for people to become fearful of the potential of flat and falling property prices.
It will be interesting to see how history records th rise and fall of HK. I’m reasonably confident that it won’t be flattering.
Cheers,
Steve McKnight
**********
Remember that success comes from doing things differently.
**********Steve McKnight | PropertyInvesting.com Pty Ltd | CEO
https://www.propertyinvesting.comSuccess comes from doing things differently
Steve you said:
“Cynically, I know people who would say that the market is pure and those that lost simply had their wealth redirected to those that won”.I do believe that is what happened and often does.
Reason being HK has made a killing, some investors will make out ok in the longterm if of course they hold and had enough cash to make up the shortfall in deposits required, but most of all many hundreds/thousands will lose from paying excessive amounts for a seminar/package which proved to be codswallop, it couldn`t work for them!, at the very least run by a very naive/stupid R/E Guru if everything he says is to be believed.
Maybe the investors were ignorant whatever but this doesn`t change the fact he will not return thier money.
IMO he took a big risk and blew it so he should pay, trust or no trust.
To my mind, there was a level of deception there, no matter which way you look at it, no it doesn`t deserve too harsh a penalty but for him to walk away counting his money isn`t quite right either.Quite an interesting topic:
Quoted from Henry Kaye Investment Mastery:
“The bridge between where you are right now and where you want to be tomorrow is knowledge”
I guess those people that attend his seminars does not have enough knowledge and go out there start purchasing off-the-plan property. That is why they get burn.
I alway believe that out of 100 persons who attending any investment seminars, not all of them become wealthy.
For HK’s seminars, those that attended and applied it properly I believe they will be wealthy.
I know people who attended HK’s seminars and do nothing and I also know other side of people who attended his seminars who become wealthy.
So here it is again:
“The bridge between where you are right now and where you want to be tomorrow is knowledge”Good luck with your investing journey….may we’re all become wealthy.
Warm Regards
ChanDollars
[Keep going, you’re on your way to financial freedom]Markpatric, did you ever attend a Henry seminar? Is that why you are so bitter?
I have attended several, as I have said several times before. I learnt a heck of a lot from him – both on existing property purchases, OTP, renos, commercial and businesses – and the one that ultimately got ASIC involved – mezzanine finance.
I have implemented a couple of these strategies, and am now better off in equity terms by approx $500K. One of they keys that he taught was your due diligence. He gave us some very detailed due diligence kits (a bit like Steve’s buyer Beware I guess – although very different format, and I would go so far as to say more detailed), and some contracts for JVs, Purchase contracts and a couple more that I don’t remember.
He stated up front, these are the steps to take. those who don’t do them exactly, don’t come and complain to me when you stuff it up.
The people that bought from PCG (who are still advertising by the way), obviously did not do their own due diligence, just believed that everything they were told is true.
That would be like Steve standing up at his seminar, having set up another company, but not telling us that they were his properties (which is where HK really did the wrong thing in my book), and promising a rent of $x which makes the property cashflow positive at $xK. what he doesn’t tell us is that the value is really $20K less than what we are paying, and the rental guarantee is coming out of that price, and is nowhere near market rental.
I would say to you that (although with smaller numbers at his seminar) a % of people will automatically buy them just because Steve was attached. They would go to their solicitor, sign contracts, and be happy. Sounds like two tier marketing, so it would probably get stamped out earlier – but if Steve did the same with OTP it wouldn’t be a problem.
These are the people who learn how to do it, but don’t want to put the effort in – want it handed to them on a plate. I think there are quite a few who come to this site who want that! This is where they fall down.
I myself was naive when I first got two tier marketed – I didn’t know to do any research – at least Henry teaches you what you should do – and if you don’t do it, it’s on your head. It’s really not hard just to ask a valuer for a valuation prior to signing a contract.
My $2 worth.
Cheers
MelI wouldn`t pay the high fees anyone is charging for a “kit”, that is laughable and rarely attend seminars, and no never a Henry Kaye one.
Believe nothing that you hear and half of what you see.[]
Trial and error is the best learning method.
Of course some small % of people who buy these kits and attend seminars will benefit, (the early bird gets the worm) but within the next year or two I think you will see the vast majority don`t.[]
If you need to ask a valuer the value of a property you should not even be investing in the first place Melbear.
Lastly Melbear have you invested in NZ?, what would you consider “due diligence”, with regard to buying there?.
Due diligence could entail anything, how can anyone give you guidelines for such a thing?, there must be times when you “take a chance” on certain aspects of a purchase, R/E does not work like this.
This is like saying use due diligence when driving, it is intangable, how can you predict what other people are going to do on the road?, I would go as far as to say people who use due diligence to the extreme on the roads are by far the most dangerous, good corrolation I reckon.[]markpatrick
Your statement “there must be times when you take a chance on certain aspects of a purchase” is exactly the type of statement I would expect from one of those people that are not prepared to do all the steps in a system and don’t want to pay anything for knowledge and as such “want it all” without doing the hard work.Elves
I also agree with what you said about “and we are no different” above. Asset protection is a very important part of the puzzle that all property investors consider and to have a go at HK for doing exactly what many here are doing (even if only by diverting into a spouses name) seems like hypocrisy to me![?]
Originally posted by markpatric:
I wouldn`t pay the high fees anyone is charging for a “kit”, that is laughable and rarely attend seminars, and no never a Henry Kaye one.I do recall I said ‘gave us’ rather than ‘we bought’.
Trial and error is the best learning method.Could not agree less!! I would much prefer to save years of time by learning from other people’s mistakes and successes. I don’t have the time or the money to want to throw it all away ‘learning’.
Of course some small % of people who buy these kits and attend seminars will benefit, (the early bird gets the worm) but within the next year or two I think you will see the vast majority don`t.[]Why is it the early bird gets the worm? You are learning a ‘process’ that can be implemented time and time again – I see that Maccas stores all run EXACTLY the same way. Each new store is as successful as the first, so I don’t quite see your point.
If you need to ask a valuer the value of a property you should not even be investing in the first place Melbear.Crap! I will get a valuer to confirm my buy price – especially before an auction as here in Canberra the banks do not take the sale price as valuation. And we also know that valuers are conservative, so our research which indicates a higher price may become a lower price in their eyes, depending of course on how they are instructed. I would like to know what my bank will lend me before I sign the contract. If their valuer is $20K less than my research indicates, I don’t want to have to fund that $20K myself.
Lastly Melbear have you invested in NZ?, what would you consider “due diligence”, with regard to buying there?.This has got to do with……? No I haven’t bought in NZ. I do not have the energy to go over there to do the research – plus trying to learn to pronounce their place names would give me a headache [
]Due diligence could entail anything, how can anyone give you guidelines for such a thing?, there must be times when you “take a chance” on certain aspects of a purchase, R/E does not work like this.So when you go to buy a house, you do not have a number of things that you will automatically look for. You don’t care about population, employment, rental vacancy, comparable sales, rental comparables, etc. etc.? Of course you’ll have bloody guidelines. And of course somebody could set out a checklist for you. You do not have to do ALL the steps, but you know that you will cover what is really necessary.
Is that not why Steve developed the Buyer Beware templates? Are they not a set of guidelines that people can follow? Tenant checklist etc. etc.?
This is like saying use due diligence when driving, it is intangable, how can you predict what other people are going to do on the road?, I would go as far as to say people who use due diligence to the extreme on the roads are by far the most dangerous, good corrolation I reckon.[]Huh?
Cheers
MelAre you saying the seminar was free Melbear?, I am talking about paying big dollars for information which is fast becoming obsolete anyway.
Of course I have guidelines when I buy a house, things I look for, but to go into a purchase blindly believing there is no risk is unthinkable to me and extremely blinkered.
There is always risk involved no matter how much due diligence you use and no matter how much cash you have spent on seminars and PI kits, besides who says you will even be capable of following the guidelines to the letter.
Of course you can learn much from others but to pay huge prices for information and blindly believe it contains a supreme secret to make everyone financially free is a little naive.What on earth has fast food got to do with PI?, do you offer your tenants free burgers if they pay rent on time?.[^]
And Melbear, I think you are studying Ronalds technique a little to closely, wrapping and flipping properties just ain`t the same.[
]Im with melbear on this one. Your trippin!!! You dont even know what information hk presented, yet you make huge assumptions. I can bet that if steve has a seminar for $$xxx you’ll be the first to buy a ticket.
Originally posted by markpatric:
Are you saying the seminar was free Melbear?, I am talking about paying big dollars for information which is fast becoming obsolete anyway.No, I said the kit was free. And why is the info obsolete? Because we are not in a fast moving market? Because we no longer buy real estate the same way? Because Kiwi’s who arrived here at some time have to become Aussies or they won’t get the dole?
Of course I have guidelines when I buy a house, things I look for, but to go into a purchase blindly believing there is no risk is unthinkable to me and extremely blinkered.Where did I say that I go into a purchase blindly believing there is no risk. Of course there’s risk, but there’s also ways to MINIMISE (not eliminate) this risk.
There is always risk involved no matter how much due diligence you use and no matter how much cash you have spent on seminars and PI kits, besides who says you will even be capable of following the guidelines to the letter.Why could you not follow then to the letter? Not being ‘capable’ sounds like a personal thing to me.
Of course you can learn much from others but to pay huge prices for information and blindly believe it contains a supreme secret to make everyone financially free is a little naive.Whoever said it was a supreme secret? It’s just common sense, but presented in a way that you think, yep, I knew that, but I’ve never consciously sat down and put it all together. I bet what Steve teaches is not ‘secret’ but rather things that anybody could do if they sat down and thought about it, and did the same sorts of things. NOt everybody puts it into a seminar though.
What on earth has fast food got to do with PI?, do you offer your tenants free burgers if they pay rent on time?.[^]About the same as driving your car I suppose – although I notice that the car analogy is one that Kiyosaki uses. Except my reference was to the SYSTEMS that Macca employs, and I ask you to point me to two stores that will cook their chips, or wrap their burgers differently – because you won’t be able to.
And Melbear, I think you are studying Ronalds technique a little to closely, wrapping and flipping properties just ain`t the same.[]I’m guessing you mean wrapping as in burgers? And since when did I talk about flipping? Those that don’t know probably assume that’s all that Henry taught, but he actually taught that you should not buy a property with the sole intention to onsell it if you did not have the financial capacity to settle on it yourself if you could not find a buyer.
Cheers
MelMaybe Henry should have taken his own advise.
I would hope that somewhere in his seminar would be some helpful advise to help the average struggling Joe.There are ways to minimise risk, and we all use them but to a different degree, it`s just words like “due diligence” annoy the heck out of me, it all sounds so wrapped up in a ribbon simple, yet at the end of the day it clouds your judgement in a lateral kind of way.
I am not generally capable of following directions as advise, which is why I have been self employed for so long, and admittedly I do tend to do things the hard way.
You pay thousands of dollars for common sense?, buy a book imo.
I did like Kiyosakis seminar but lost faith completely afterwards when outside was the most expensive R/E kits I ever seen.
Lastly the wrapping burgers was a joke but I don`t think you can draw any comparisions with R/E investment.
I could say I built my painting business the same way, using the same principles as Colonel Sanders, Ronald McDonald or Donald Duck but it doesn`t mean a thing.[]what i really hate about people like this is the way they prey or your average hard working wage earning individuals who invest in their family’s interests as well as a promise of a better life which we all hope for. Unfortunately, not all has the resources (eg. knowledge, family and friends) to guide or at least reflect upon what they are contemplating and therefore fall into an ever spiralling trap that they can’t get out from.
For example, I heard that one migrant wanting a better life for his family actually borrowed $20,000 or thereabouts to attend the courses, got nothing and now has to pay interests on something that gets him no profit ie extreme negative gearing if you could call that.
These bastards like HK creates prisons without bars and those can be the worse kind there is.
FJFICM
That`s exactly what I`m getting at fjficm, although if people will pay it…….it`s just that I won`t!.[
]Gman, now I AM trippin`[
], I already explained what HK did, what huge assumptions are you referring to?, and why on earth would I turn around and pay thousands for a seminar?, after I just explained why I wouldn`t/never have?.[?]
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], I already explained what HK did, what huge assumptions are you referring to?, and why on earth would I turn around and pay thousands for a seminar?, after I just explained why I wouldn`t/never have?.[?]You must be logged in to reply to this topic. If you don't have an account, you can register here.
