We probably should stop talking about this, it’s getting a bit close to the “forbidden” shares topic. [
]I think the catch with that Comsec product is the huge interest rate.
regards,
Rod.
Yep, just checked.
The standard comsec margin loan interest rate (variable) is 7.9%, whereas the protected ones range from 12% to 28% [:0] depending on the stocks in the portfolio and loan term.
Rod.
sorry my fault for mentioning margin loans!
but you can use this facility for property too and the rates are not all that different to mortgage rates, infact they are sometimes lower, but you do have fees associated. Ok this was about finance.
and I made my century!!!! in posts that is
elves
Congratulations elves,
On the century that is. [8D]
Rod.
It is always the right time for any investment vehicle. Change brings opportunity. You only need to change your perception. When a market gets too focused in one particular direction or mode you need only trade the inefficiency. In other words too many people are trading the same edge, your job as an investor is to find a new edge, your new holy grail. It’s simple but it’s not easy!!!
You must remember each investment vehcile has it’s own characteristics. I trade options for volatility, I trade in my marketing buisness for non-passive cashflow, I trade in my development company for leveraged non-passive cashflow, I invest in property for passive cashflow and longterm capital gains and invest I in shares for longterm capital gains also.
Remember the sharemarket is more of a pyschological/emotional game than 90% of people think. Shares are traded fundamently as well as technically by professional traders. And those traders make money in any market (up,down or sideways).
Sorry I get carried away.
Best regards,
AaronRemember: A problem is an opportunity in disguise.
Very apt and succinct Aaron. If we all looked at the market economy with a sense of obligation to make it work more efficiently, all Australian citizens would be wealthier, via increased exports, tax revenue, and productivity. This involves more than just the private sector doing property efficiently. When there are too many property investors driving prices up and yields down, then it is time to look at other avenues- sharemarket, investing in or starting a small business. Personally, I think the idea of investment syndicates are a brilliant idea. If everyone keeps acting alone, then we are still back in an economic agrarian age practising cottage industry.
Bruce
Mooloolaba, QldBear, I think we might find that there will be some property investors (or should I say ‘speculators’) who will lose more than just their deposit when it comes time to settle on their OTP apartments and they find that the value is substantially less than their purchase price.
Westan, having all your money in only HIH, or having a portfolio filled with HIH, One.Tel etc, is poor management. If it’s only a small sum, then yes, perhaps buy only one or two shares, but really, if you do your research (as with property) it is possible to see these ‘problems’ coming.
Elves, to do your smilies, try typing in the [ and the ] characters around the
. That might make them work for you.Cheers
MelHi Mel
with all due respect
“if you do your research (as with property) it is possible to see these ‘problems’ coming.”
i don’t think the Packers the Murdocks (one tel) or Gerry Harvey (HIH) are mugs, they didn’t see it coming !!!!
all the research in the world doesn’t help with some stocks. Sometimes events just happen that can kill a company. I don’t think it is as simple as saying you can see it coming. Did investors in Arthur Anderson see that one?? It does happen overnight a good company can go Bust, for many reasons that sometoime aren’t obvious before hand.
regards westan
I find +ve cashflow deals in New Zealand which I sell to other investors. To be on my database send an e-mail to [email protected]
my 2c
Shares have an advantage in that in an emergency you can sell a ‘parcel’ ( portion ) of the stocks that you hold to raise cash, however if all your investment cash is weighted in a property portfolio it’s hard to sell a portion of your house.. i.e family emergency so you try to sell only the toilet to raise the cash [
]In my experience shares are violatile and need to be regularly monitored, the market sentiment can rapidly raise or lower the value of your investment, this can also be true in the property sector albiet much slower.
as the old Axiom states “Don’t put all your eggs in one basket” , everything has it’s pro’s and con’s, it depends on your personal situation and goals..
REDWING
Remember, money is currency,just like electricity, it has to keep moving to be effectivetry leaving your money in the bank !!“The man that thinks at 5o as he did when he was 20 has wasted 30 years of his life”
Hi Yack
Re: Margin loans
When you borrow money to buy shares, it’s called a margin loan. With property you can typically borrow 80% no problem, with shares it’s 70%. However, I think it’s more likey that people only borrow 50% because the moment your shares drop in value (even temporarily) you get a “margin call” from your lender asking for money because the loan now constitutes more than 70% of the value of the shares and they don’t like that. One of the main beneifts of property over shares is leverage.
This is my understanding. Anyone feel free to correct me. I do invest in shares (some medium term, some very short term) but only with my own money.
Judi
>>And another thing. In my view its never a time for shares.<<
Yack, shares is just another avenue which allows one to spread the risk.
The outstanding feature of share investing or trading is that one’s money is immediately accessible.
The problem with shares is that it requires a lot of knowledge as well as a considerable time spent on keeping an eye on them.
For most people it is a lot easier to make money in real estate than is the case with shares.
Pisces
Sorry about my previous post. It was in response to a question on the first page. I just realised there were other pages since then. [?]
I agree with those who say that you can create wealth quicker through property, because of greater capacity to leverage.
Markets all have cycles. While property seems pricey at the moment, maybe it’s time to research an area so that you will be ready to grab an opportunity when it comes up. As long as you can hold the property long term, it doesn’t matter what the market might do in the next few years.
Cheers,
CarLover.
Westan, I think you’ll find that Kerry Packer thought James was a mug in regards to One Tel. He quickly came back and took control back from him after that little debacle. James did not do his own ‘due diligence’ into the company – he merely believed what Jodi Rich and that other guy told him. I read somewhere that they all went to the same exclusive school in Sydney – so it was very much a ‘boys club’.
There is a program called Stock Doctor – I didn’t want to mention it before as it’s vey shares oriented, and if this post gets deleted, so be it – but it tracks the financial ‘health’ of companies, and it showed One Tel in big strife a couple of years before it went down the tubes. If you invested on fundamentals, you would have got the hell out.
As for the others, perhaps you are right, but for such a spectacular fall, there had to be something again in the financials that wasn’t right – if you knew what to look for. A company that big doesn’t ‘die’ because of that one huuuuge ‘error’.
Cheers
MelHi Mel
yes i agree with one tel (they could have seen it coming) but if there is deliberate and blatant fraud occuring as is being investigated with HIH the poor investors have no chance. i remember some shares i had years ago in a coal producer in NSW called Clutha they had an accident at a mine and they couldn’t recover and went broke (luckily for me i sold mine before they made an announcement to the market)..
It wasn’t possible to see this happening, sometime companies loose good contract etc i think that you make it sound possible to protect yourself, i don’t think it is, that’s cetainly my observation of 15 years of following the stockmarket.
And those programs like stock doctor are a great historical tools, but they are unable to see the future. And can only show what data is put into them. Companies like Harris Scarfe did reveal to the market its real picture.
bye westanI find +ve cashflow deals in New Zealand which I sell to other investors. To be on my database send an e-mail to [email protected]
As crashy once pointed out to me, there is a way of buying ‘insurance’ for your shares. However, you are limited to the bigger stocks, and it could cost quite a lot.
If it sounded like I was suggesting you could protect yourself from every event that wasn’t my intention. As for the data that goes into the programs – that’s ASX data – and I believe that all companies accounts are audited? Of course, if you have Arthur Andersen as your auditors……
Cheers
Melhi mel
yes you can buy insurance on shares it’svcalled buying options and it can be a good strategy for the experienced investor, but as with all insurances there is a cost so it dilutes your return. and contrary to someone else’s comments i do know the difference between writing and buying option.
regarding the asx data it is historical data from previous returns, they cannot put in data for the future. it is an uncertainty.
anyway back to the original question is it all over , i’ve bought 2 houses in the past week.
westanI find +ve cashflow deals in New Zealand which I sell to other investors. To be on my database send an e-mail to [email protected]
Hi Westan
I agree that the data is historical, but it can also show a very good picture of the future. Martin Roth – the author of Top Stocks xxxx bases his predictions of Top Stocks on historical factors. ie gearing levels below a certain level, earnings per share and Return on Equity etc. If these change for the worse from one year to the next, then there are definite warning signs.
I think the same is true for house buying. We base everything on historical data, and we have some information of what will happen in the future. This is never necessarily a ‘dead cert’. When we look at population – we are looking at historical data. We are basing our future projections on what has happened. We don’t ‘know’ what will happen, we are just making an educated guess.
I have not bought any houses since November. I am currently looking at options other than shares and real estate – and it certainly isn’t cash in the bank.
Cheers
Mel>>and it can be a good strategy for the experienced investor, but as with all <<
I guess you really mean ‘………. strategy for the INexperienced investor’ Westan ?
Pisces
]
. That might make them work for you.
]
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