Hi guys,
Been inspired reading all the interesting replies to Steve’s and LeighK’s stories, so I thought that I’d pick your brains on what you would have done.
A few months ago, I was inspecting the usual 4 or 5 open homes on the weekend (as you do). I got to a nice townhouse, where the real estate agent was obviously (or perhaps apparently) very successful, since she drove up in a big new $200,000 merc.
So I go and ask her the usual questions, and here are her responses to some of them:
Elysium: Why is the owner selling?
R/E Agent: I don’t know.
Elysium: Is it possible to find out?
R/E Agent (in a condescending tone): I don’t think it’s any of my business. I don’t think it’s appropriate to invade the owner’s privacy like that. Besides, what difference does it make?I’m quite a thick-skinned character, and must have been invading a lot of owners’ privacy, because I ask this question about every single house I inspect. I got the distinct impression that she was trying to explain to an idiot (I’d like to think idiot savant, but that’s just me) how I shouldn’t be asking that question at all.
But being the non-confrontational chap that I am, I decided not to push the issue any further. The house sold for the asking price on the same day (which was $30,000 more than what the identical one next door sold for 3 months earlier) – no way was I going to offer that much anyway, so I thought nothing further of it.
Now – I’ve got 2 questions to pose:
1. What did you think of the agent’s response to my question?
2. How would you have responded? (keep in mind that there are about 20 other people traipsing through the place inspecting this and that)
Cheers
Elysium-MDIY Residential Property Settlements in WA – the book coming soon! When I can get my act together…
Hi Elysium,
We’re selling one of our IP’s soon, and when the agent asks me why we’re selling, I’ll say it’s confidential. I don’t have to give them a reason at all… If they push the issue, I’ll stick to my guns, they don’t need to know. I don’t think what she said was necessarily rude, but I wouldn’t like people talking to me in a condescending tone…
cheers
rIt is my opinion that a real estate agent should know as much as possible about the place they are selling, including the answers to your questions, if the owners are willing to part with the information.
I’m sure the other 20 people would have liked to hear the answers as well.
“Looking forward to the day when I can tell the boss where to go”
Elysium,
Given that the agent is acting for the vendor- not for the buyer… I believe what the RE agent said was fair. I guess some buyers are hoping the RE will say “oh, they have to sell, they’re in a terrible situation”. Not that you wanted that information necessarily, but I am sutre the RE agents come across people all the time looking for “distressed” sales, and looking for an agent to disclose.
Sounds to me like the RE agent had the vendor’s best interests in mind when she replied to your question.
kay henry
Hi there,
interesting point.
I always ask why the vendor is selling, too, and I have recieved such answers as ‘they have a $34K mortgage on the property hence 36K is their bottom line’. Or ‘the vendor owns 75 rental properties in the area, and is now in a home. his children are selling off some properties to be able to pay rates.’ (that property was really cheap and needed a lot of maintenance.)Or ‘the vendor is going in to a home soon. She has to sell the property and disperse the cash to her children, otherwise the government will take her asset and use it to fund her stay in the home.’
or
‘They are selling the properties because they want to buy the ski-shop business’.etc etc.
All interesting.Basically, if I was the vendor, I’d give the agent a ‘reason’ to offer prospective vendors such as ‘the vendor is selling because they need the money to fund another purchase’ or whatever.
If I got the answer you’d got, I’d feel a mixture of ‘oops, the vendor’s fallen on hard times, and has to sell – pity for them’ – or else, ‘the real estate agent is trying to hide a fault in the property she knows about’. i would definitely get a builder’s report in that case.
I noticed that when you meet RE agents from affluent areas they are more fancy-pantsy. the cars, the clothes, the dismissive attitude.
Maybe, if you really wanted to know, you could ask to meet the vendor and ask them yourself.
cheers-
miniMini,
I know many agents myself and well put it this way, the last few years by their own admission they have become arrogant. Why? Cos they receive 200 calls plus a day from investors wanting the bargain of a lifetime. As they said to me, they are arrogant coz they can be in the current market. Wait for the market shift that is about to happen and I think u will see the other side of agents come out again.
Regards Bear
Look at Jenmans site/articles etc.. they advise thier agent’s ‘not’ to discuss the owners reasons for selling amongst other things..
Part of Negotiating too i suppose – never give away too much too early : )
“The man that thinks at 5o as he did when he was 20 has wasted 30 years of his life”
Theoretically Agent’s should not disclose personal information but we know how stupid so many of them are don’t we. I once had a Commerical Agent try to sell me a private house. He had acted for the vendor in a commercial deal and was given the house to sell by a happy client. As the house was untidy, the embarassed Agent told me the vendor should pay for the pest report and to clean up the yard and this that and everything else including long terms for settlement and only $100 deposit. He also told me the vendor had purchased a commercial property and really needed the funds to pay for his new purchase and just could not possible hang onto this house. It was a good buy that was only messy but quite sound on a development sized block but I didn’t go ahead as it would have been a no-doc loan that would have restricted my future development. I’d sure call that Agent again for possible purchases.
If I knew then what I know now……….you know how it goes
Well agents don’t do themselves any favours….
There is a commercial property not far from where I live that has been vacant for over 3 years. I know that coz I used to walk past it with my eldest child ( who is now 3 1/2) in the pram.
So there is now an agents board out front. I make a time to go through the property.
It is a $400k property being flogged for $600k. (My opinion)
During the inspection I ask the question “how long has the property been vacant”.
He replies “a few weeks”
Me: “Really, are you sure?”
Agent: “Yeah, a few weeks, so how much are you going to offer”
Me: “Mate – stop jacking me round. This property has been vacant for over 3 years. When are you going to start telling me the truth”
Agent: “I am telling you the truth – it is a few weeks”
Me: “Not printable what I said to him – lets just say I said I’ll show myself out and no, you can’t have my business card”.
Moral of the story – well for me, don’t do business with people who p$%s you off.
Oh and agents might lie to get a sale.
Fast forward to today and the board is now replaced with one by the owner direct.
Have a great day
Dave
Nice story there Dave :o) You sound like a very macho guy!
kay henry
Not really – but the agent was smaller than me!!
Dave
Remember Kay , that DAve is the bad cop in the good cop bad cop routine …………LOL
hehe Bears
My colleague told me the other day that she and I make the prfect good cop bad cop team. She said she does all the “gently gently” stuff and comes out as the good guy, whereas I say all the things that have to be said! It’s not easy being a bad cop [8D]
kay henry
I wouldn’t want the agent to divulge my reasons for selling. To avoid this, if I was desperate to sell, or whatever, I certainly wouldn’t tell the agent that.
Reading Jenman’s first book, about the 4 questions to ask an agent (to see if the agent is ethical or not) was a real eye opener. Another of the questions you could ask (that the agent shouldn’t answer with anything but the advertised price) is what is the lowest price the vendor will accept.
If you wanted to, you could take these questions, and go and nut out places where you could make a low offer with short settlement etc. and have a good chance of acceptance because you know they need the money desperately.
Cheers
MelPhew – there’s some divergence of views here.
I totally respect the vendor’s right of privacy. I think it’s legitimate for a vendor to take the view that the reason he or she is selling is none of my business.
However, the flip-side is that as a purchaser, I’m not doing myself any favours if I fail to ask that question.
For example, if I find out that the vendor is doing a buy-renovate-sell strategy with the property, then I’d pay a lot more attention to the quality of the renovations, to make sure that it hasn’t been slapped together in a hurry by a DIY amateur (of course, there are people who renovate their own property and do a top quality job, but I’d rather be safe than reckless)
There is the example that mini gave, which might give you the upper hand in negotiating a price. Then it really comes down to your own character, I think. Do I still offer a fair (maybe slightly below market value) price, so that everyone gets a win? Or do I try to screw down the price to the bare minimum (eg $5,000 more than what the vendor owes to the bank)?
And I think that in other cases, knowing the vendor’s reason for selling may give me more flexibility in formulating my offer, or help me avoid making unworkable offers. On one occasion, the real estate agent told me that the vendor was a really old lady who wanted to cash out her assets so that she could give the money to her grandkids before she moved on. Because there was no mortgage on the property, I was going to ask for 5 year vendor finance terms. But once I knew that, there was no point in wasting my time with that idea.
Anyway, I think it depends on which side of the fence you’re sitting on at that point in time. If I was a vendor, and I thought that my reason for selling would help me get the price I wanted, I’d definitely instruct my agent to tell prospective buyers. When I first inspected one house (that I know own), I felt that I might be paying a small premium if I offered the asking price. Then the real estate agent told me that the husband wanted to sell so that they could buy a bigger home, but the wife had a sentimental attachment and was opposed to the sale. I knew that if I tried to bargain down the price, the wife was probably going to use that as a reason to fight the sale. In any event, it was still a decent cashflow deal even at the asking price, so I didn’t waste time with haggling over the price and offered them what they wanted. By the way, I don’t know if they told the agent to tell me about the domestic drama, but it certainly worked in getting them their asking price!
Cheers
Elysium-MDIY Residential Property Settlements in WA – the book coming soon! When I can get my act together…
Sounds like a good agent to me. If I was selling I would not want the agent to tell the prospective buyers. I always offer a lower price if I know why they are selling eg. moving to another home, divorce, deceased estate etc. I also agree with Jenman on this one.
Elysium- not really much divergence in opinion- most of the replies felt that the agent was fair. And remember- sometimes we sell, and we want the agent to act for us then.
In the past, if i have asked about the seller’s circumstances, it was to find out if the vendor was struggling. If that was the case, I’d tend to haggle less. Sometimes it’s good to give a guy who’s down on his luck a break.
kay henry
yeh it seems a bit cheeky to pry around and ask loaded questions for your own benefit and then feel put out when the agent does her bit to look after the seller – full credit to her.
ps – as a buyer I would do the same. As someone else says, depends on which side of fence…..
ps – as a buyer I would do the same. As someone else says, depends on which side of fence…..
[/quote]
Yeah, it’s always good to put oneself in the other person’s shoes when negotiating. Other wise it has ways to come back and sting us up the butt ………LOL
Well, you know the old saying about doing unto others…
If I was selling a house, I personally would have no problems with potential purchasers asking why I wanted to sell. That’s only fair, since I ask the question myself. Obviously, if the reason would put me at a bargaining disadvantage, I’d specifically instruct the agent not to tell.
But aren’t people entitled to ask anyway? Whether or not they’re entitled to receive an answer is a different issue (and I believe that the answer to that question is “no”). I’m not offended if I get told that it’s none of my business, although I might get a bit put out if I was being talked down to.
That said, why is it bad to ask the question? Does it offend your sensibilities of what is ethical? If so, how can you say it’s not ethical? And (forgive me for being blunt with this one) who are you to say that it’s wrong?
Please note – I’m not trying to be argumentative here. I’m just trying to understand whether:
1. other forumites do ask this question on a regular basis; and
2. if not, why (and how can you justify to yourself, since it’s your personal financial interests that are at stake) do you accept the risk that the seller’s reason for selling the property could be prejudicial to the value of the property?
Cheers
Elysium-MDIY Residential Property Settlements in WA – the book coming soon! When I can get my act together…
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