Folks
I was just wondering if anybody had some general infomation and/or experience about the pros and cons of investing overseas e.g. if you were to by a +ve geared property in NZ, what are the ramifications tax wise for the investor back in Oz?
I’m sure its a worthwhile exercise as there are many people who do it, but what are the main differences between investing here and NZ for example. What happens tax wise if you buy in NZ and sell in NZ? etc What is the carrot for going off shore with property investments???
Any feedback is much appreciated.
Cheers
Devo[
]The “carrot” is a higher return on investment than what can be achieved in your own country, taking taxes etc into account.
In terms of tax advice, you should speak with a qualified accountant before investing off-shore – someone who understands both countries tax and foreign investment policies.
Although New Zealand does not have CGT, you will pay CGT when the profit is returned to Australia. Therefore it can be advantageous to leverage profits gained from the sale of property in New Zealand by acquiring more property. You will eventually pay CGT but in the meantime you are making use of these funds, and other tax incentives, to increase your overall return on investment.
— Michael
i agree, the best way to avoid CGT is to buy and never sell!! Also offshore you get better yields. Aussie has got some of the crappest yields in the world, actually. I read that somewhere.
The richest people are the ones who buy and hold. The people with the most regret are ones who say ‘if only we hadn’t sold that property back then, because now it would be worth XYZ’ – forced into a sale because holding the property is making them broke. i.e. crap yields.
NZ isn’t the only great offshore place to invest, it’s just the closest- as close to me here in sydney as alice springs is, basically, and a whole lot closer than WA.
WA is lovely though. Investing in Mandurah and around there could be very good though, it’s going to be awesome, they are building a train line finished in 2007 and it will take 48minutes to perth – it also has lots more going for it, like the top regional area for employment, fast growing, etc etc
As for yallingup, what a divine place…
cheers-
miniMiniMogul
There are a number of factors in determining if the buy and hold strategy is the best. With all due respect, I would personally disagree with your comment “The richest people are the ones who buy and hold”. In fact there is an interesting discussion on this very topic at the following link;
http://realestateinvesting.com/cgi-bin/general/index.html
You are certainly correct that New Zealand is a great place to invest. We constantly monitor overseas markets for investment and development purposes, and our data has indicated for some time that New Zealand is the best real estate investment location at this time.
HiGuys,
I wonder how many “hits” the Mandurah Real estate agents are going to get on their websites in the next few days [][] I sense a stampede a-coming….
Sue []“Be careful not to step on the flowers when you’re reaching for the stars”
diclem,
hehe, what, are you saying i am influential or something?? *hehe*
michael,
“With all due respect, I would personally disagree with your comment “The richest people are the ones who buy and hold”.
like, whatever, dude, you are so welcome to sell your income producing asset, pay a RE agent for the privilege and CGT on the proceeds, buy in again at the same point in the market (so getting nowhere) and pay stamp duty, OR, spend the money you now have on something (i.e. lifestyle) OR get into some other investment like Option Writing or whatever, well off you go over to the shares forum. And good luck, you’ll need it…
Just don’t come whinging to me in a few years that you wish you hadn’t sold, because your asset would have been worth XYZ now.!
A lot of people don’t even know that they can refinance against their asset often more easily than they can sell it – and then no CGT is due, plus the interest is tax deductible cause it’s your IP. Most people think selling is the only way to get money out of their property.
OK, it’s not really going to get you very far to borrow against your property to fund lifestyle, but it will if you buy more income-producing assets, and hold them for the long term. If you have humungous growth, why would you sell?
I mean, can someone explain it to me why you would?
i did check out the link but I just got some homepage – so perhaps rather than disagreeing and then pointing me to someone else’s arguments on a website somewhere you could actually summarise them in your own words and write them here?
I love a debate…
cheers-
mini
WA is lovely though. Investing in Mandurah and around there could be very good though, it’s going to be awesome, they are building a train line finished in 2007 and it will take 48minutes to perth – it also has lots more going for it, like the top regional area for employment, fast growing, etc etcHello Mini
Investing in Mandurah may be a good idea but it depends on your stratergy. i have recently built in Mandurah and prices have sky rocketed with several suburbs including mine recording more than 30% growths in house prices. This is great if you had got in early but now I think people will have alot of trouble trying to find a +cf property in Mandurah, as it is not the sleepy holiday town it used to be. If you want a -cf property with good capital gains then by all means invest here but for +cf returns people might be better looking in the surrounding areas like Pinjarra or dwellingup but I think prices are on the rise there as well..
Scott
“Together we combine our strengths and eliminate our weaknesses”
MiniMogul
I appreciate your so-called “debate”, but it would appear your experience, or understanding of alternate investment models and the tax/cost implications [or avoiding them] is limited.
Unfortunately I don’t have the time to outline the pro’s and con’s of buy and hold versus other investment strategies – maybe you can find an appropriate book on this subject.
I will add that I have a successful real estate investment and development group, based in the United States, which employs specialists to implement investment strategies and build wealth in our portfolio [domestic and foreign] – which has never been reliant on buy and hold, because it does not demonstrate a higher ROI than the models we adhere too. This is not rocket science, it reflects a simple understanding of real estate investment outside the parameters you may be use too.
My point was, there are many factors to take into consideration when deciding to hold versus sell [“sell” defining several strategies]. On some occasions retaining a property may make sense, but the fact that markets generally appreciate over a period i.e. 10 years, is a small part of the equation. The richest people I am aware of are not those who buy and hold specifically, they know how to leverage their investments, which does not often mean holding for an extended period.
Rest assured I will not come “whinging” to you because I wished I hadn’t sold, “dude”.
— Michael
MM
Following is a post taken from the site I referred too. The writer is a successful real estate investor, RE attorney and is the author of a couple of books on RE investment.
I would not necessarily agree with all of what he say’s because the decision to hold or sell should be on a case-by-case basis, and subject to the period the owner intends retaining the asset and other fiscal and economic factors.
This post does however provide an argument for why buy and hold is not necessarily the best option.
I’ve studied buy-and-hold investment models for fifteen years. The mathematics of them are inherently flawed. Over time you can’t make money faster than inflation or the percentage increase in population even if you pick the best area and the best property and both of those are difficult to do.Do the math on any investment property over a ten, twenty, thirty, fifty year or whatever period and you come to the same conclusion.
Use some common sense. On a real estate investment, it is quite easy to make 30% in the first year after a quick rehab or improvement. Do you think you can make 30% year after year on the same property? When do you think your yield gravitates towards the median gain of all other similarly situated properties? It has to, it is unavoidable.
How do you earn spectacular gains holding property decade after decade? You can’t. All income properties will all appreciate at the same rate in a given area. The only way to earn high yields with rentals is to IMPROVE THEM and build equity yourself. Otherwise you are counting on marketwide appreciation and increases in rental income to make you money and how fast do you think that will compound? ONLY AS FAST AS OTHER SIMILARLY SITUATED PROPERTIES or in other words, at the market rates.
Again, use some more common sense. The longer you own a property, the higher your maintenance and repair costs. As a building gets older, it needs more work. It wears out and the owner needs to fix things to keep attracting tenants and maintain the current rental income. Which property is going to appreciate at a higher rate? The new property with a lower expense ratio for the owner or an older property with a higher expense ratio? Every dollar in added expense per month per unit using a cap rate of ten is $120 in lost equity PER YEAR.
It doesn’t matter how you look at this question. You can use theoretical mathematical models. You can use empirical statistical studies. You can just use plain common sense. The bottom line is you can make more money faster, with less risk, and earn higher yields buying properties, quickly improving them to add value, and selling them to pyramid your equity than buying a property and holding it for years or decades for market appreciation and gradual increases in rental income.
“maybe you can find an appropriate book on this subject.”
ugh, maybe you can be a bit less patronising. If you wanted to give the impression you are a big-noting know-it-all yank, you’ve succeeded.
Anyway, it’s impossible to have a debate with someone who ‘can’t be bothered’.
I however may be able to be bothered to discuss your other points further, if I didn’t happen to be at an internet cafe at the beach with a heap of better things to do.
but just one last thought for now, the people who (in my humble experience) have grumbled the hardest arguing with the logic of ‘buy and almost never sell’ (which Dolf de Roos teaches, by the way, lest you don’t want to take *my* word for it- ) – are the ones that *did* sell and wish they hadn’t. Arguing is just a way of rationalising their mistake to make them feel better about it. So is that you Michael R?
MM
It is not that I cannot be bothered debating this subject, I simply do not have the time to provide leasons in the fundamentals of real estate investment.
Regarding DeRoos, I do know him, but would never adhere to his strategies – not that I deal in SFH’s anyway. He is however a very good salesman. Blind leading the blind several associates have suggested.
Take what you will from my comments, but I can assure you I do not need to complain, argue, or however you put it, to feel better about investment decisions. My input was intended to provide insight for those who can benefit from it, not attract meaningless debate.
And finally, to end this discussion, who ever said I was a “yank”! These forums can be quite comical when you have no idea who you’re conversing with.
— Michael
All I was wanting folks was some info on investing overseas. It seems to have degenrated into a ‘buy and hold’ debate or buying in WA.
Any chance we can get back to my original request, pretty please[
]Thanks
DevoMichael R,
the ‘yank’ part was because it says you are from the US to the left of your post.
I’ll get back to you on the other stuff.Devo,
I’ve told you what the carrot is in going offshore- and that is yields. I read somewhere recently that Australia has amongst the crappest yields in the world.To be complaining about people going off the track on ‘your’ thread is the glass half empty way of looking at it – the glass half full way is, ‘gee, I’m glad there has been some action on my thread which attracts other people to read it, and maybe I’ll get some more info from others’.
> I will add that I have a successful real estate investment and development
> group, based in the United States,there’s that ‘i thought you were a yank’ thing again
>which employs specialists to implement
> investment strategies and build wealth in our portfolio [domestic and foreign]
> – which has never been reliant on buy and hold,Look. I am not saying that buy and hold is the only strategy to make money in real estate. There are other ways. I had some friends who are on to their 17th property, but they only own two – one they live in and one they are ‘doing their thing’ with. That is a lot of hard graft and grind, and sure they cashed out each time and lived on the proceeds, but it’s a full time JOB – if you don’t work, you don’t get paid. I see Buy and Hold as a true *investment* strategy, but unlike negatively geared properties, it is replicable without keeping the person either a) working b) broke in the meantime. My friends are the kind of people that I know wished they had been able to hold onto some of those 17 properties along the way – ‘they wold be worth XYZ now’….
> demonstrate a higher ROI than the models we adhere too.
how high?
>This is not rocket
> science, it reflects a simple understanding of real estate investment outside
> the parameters you may be use too.
‘used to’.Don’t just try and bamboozle me with big words, suggesting that it would be too tricky for me to understand, and then tell me you ‘can’t be bothered writing a book teaching me the basics. well, just assume I have the basics down, (cause I have that book – hehe) just tell me about these supposed parameters you’re so outside?
Experts who try and sell novices into investment schemes (whether bona-fide or bogus) find it’s in their interest to keep their potential customers dumb, baffle them with lots of ‘stuff’and take their money and invest it for them. I mean, they’re the experts! hey, is that what your company does? you say your company
“employs specialists to implement investment strategies and build wealth in our portfolio” – I mean, are you an investor investing your own money, or do you employ ‘specialists’ to invest it for you? Or what?> My point was, there are many factors to take into consideration when deciding
> to hold versus sell [“sell” defining several strategies].huh? Am I being naive to think that ‘sell’ means ‘sell’ – as in, cash out, liquidate – and anything other is ‘hold’???
>On some occasions
> retaining a property may make sense,Phew!!!! You had me worried there for a while.
> markets generally
> appreciate over a period i.e. 10 years, is a small part of the equation.So you don’t think that capital gain over ten years is ‘significant’. Hmmm. Interesting. And you’re not into yields and buying and holding and collecting rent. So what *are* you doing to make money from real estate?
It would make me think you might be a developer.???>The
> richest people I am aware of are not those who buy and hold specifically, they
> know how to leverage their investments,exactly, and a ‘held’ investment which generates income while itself gaining value (even though you think that’s a small part of the equation) means you have serviceability and ever increasing equity for future investments with which to ‘leverage’ into further purchases. Eventually you can stop purchasing and just live off the income.
>which does not often mean holding for
> an extended period.OK, you really need to explain what you are doing if not holding.
> Rest assured I will not come “whinging” to you because I wished I hadn’t sold,
> “dude”.“ok”, then, “dude”,
> Use some common sense. On a real estate investment, it is quite easy to make
> 30% in the first year after a quick rehab or improvement. Do you think you can
> make 30% year after year on the same property?no, but the 20 percent rental yield tends to get even better with time.
Who cares about the capital gain? OK, let’s say we do have some capital gain. Value it, and refinance it to buy more income producing assets.>When do you think your yield
> gravitates towards the median gain of all other similarly situated properties?
> It has to, it is unavoidable.huh?
> How do you earn spectacular gains holding property decade after decade? You
> can’t. All income properties will all appreciate at the same rate in a given
> area. The only way to earn high yields with rentals is to IMPROVE THEM and
> build equity yourself. Otherwise you are counting on marketwide appreciation
> and increases in rental income to make you money and how fast do you think
> that will compound? ONLY AS FAST AS OTHER SIMILARLY SITUATED PROPERTIES or in
> other words, at the market rates.rough figures – property purchased in 1991 for $5000 (rural NZ town) then renting for $20 per week now would be worth 50K and renting for $120 per week. Make up a curve to get from $20 to the current $120 and work out how much money you would have got each year, increasing every year, from 1991 until now.
it’s stupendous, something like a 600 percent return on your investment, even if you had finance for the original 5000 back in 1991.This is an actual case that someone was talking about one one of the threads now in the treasure chest.
> Again, use some more common sense.
I am!! And a calculator! And I’m telling you that buy and hold makes mathematical sense to me, as well as being the most time-leveraging strategy out of all of them – not to mention, no capital gains tax!!>The longer you own a property, the higher
> your maintenance and repair costs. As a building gets older, it needs more
> work. It wears out and the owner needs to fix things to keep attracting
> tenants and maintain the current rental income. Which property is going to
> appreciate at a higher rate? The new property with a lower expense ratio for
> the owner or an older property with a higher expense ratio? Every dollar in
> added expense per month per unit using a cap rate of ten is $120 in lost
> equity PER YEAR.I agree that buildings depreciate, but land appreciates. Land is forever, and buildings are for xyz amount of years (depending on how old they were when you bought them.)
I live in an 800K house. The ‘improvements’ (i.e. the house) is depreciating like mad, it’s already 100 years old and you’d want to pull it down at some point, and rebuild. Because it’s the land which has overtaken the house value – the land would be 3/4 of the property’s value, without a doubt. But the present owners probably bought this property in the 80’s for, like, 230K or so. But by selling at any point, they wouldn’t now have all this equity that they could use. – lets’ say, revalue the property, pull out half to buy some income-producing properties and half to build, build new units or whatever, get property revalued, pull out capital to buy more cashflow producing assets, repeat formula – all the time income producing buy and holds are being used to service the growth of the portfolio.
> It doesn’t matter how you look at this question. You can use theoretical
> mathematical models. You can use empirical statistical studies. You can just
> use plain common sense. The bottom line is you can make more money faster,
> with less risk, and earn higher yields buying properties, quickly improving
> them to add value, and selling them to pyramid your equityyep yep – that’s what my friends on their 17th property do – and it’s a full time job. Valid, but not an investment as such – because if you don’t work, you don’t get paid.
>than buying a
> property and holding it for years or decades for market appreciationno no no no no no
*whistles happy tune * –
market appreciation is almost irrelevant when you are getting a 20 percent rental return on your purchase price in year one, which is almost certain to get better over the years, even factoring in holding costs!!!> It is not that I cannot be bothered debating this subject, I simply do not
> have the timegood, that means you’ll let me have the last word then!! hee heeeeeeeeee!!!
> to provide leasons in the fundamentals of real estate
> investment.ew,,,,,,,
Mr Busy Teacher,I soooooo don’t want to learn from you. Call me a hippy, but I just don’t get a vibe for you.
> Regarding DeRoos, I do know him, but would never adhere to his strategies –
why not? He’s into buying properties with a twist and adding value. He’s into leverage. can you clarify what DDR does that you would ‘never adhere to’?
> not that I deal in SFH’s anyway.
single family homes?
So does that mean you are into commercial property, or commercial residential property? Which you buy, do up and flog, or develop?
(because you aren’t holding….)>Blind
> leading the blind several associates have suggested.huh??! He’s doing really really well! I don’t get why you think he is ‘blind’.
> My input was intended to provide insight for those who can benefit
> from it, not attract meaningless debate.It’s only meaningless because you’ve disagreed but not given anything away about why. What you do, how it works, a numbers comparison.
Ok, you’re too busy to be a ‘teacher’, but you have enough time to write that you’re too busy. So what are you actually getting out of the forums?> All I was wanting folks was some info on investing overseas. It seems to
> have degenrated into a ‘buy and hold’ debate or buying in WA.yeah, it was a buy and hold debate, but that’s just my personality, if I hear someone say something that I think is – erm – cryptic, dodgy, wrong,
or similar, I always challenge it. thank me later.> Any chance we can get back to my original request, pretty please
objection over-ruled. like I said, thank me later.
Just know, Devo, that anything you have asked has been answered a zillion times before. There are certain questions such as ‘where do you find a cashflow positive property? What are the hot suburbs that i should buy?and re: offshore, do I need a lawyer/accountant/structure/bank account/broker/etc/whatever.
Not that it’s bad to ask, it’s just that I’m a little less excited each time I hear the question, and a little more likely to wish that all newbies had read then entire forum before asking anything….
and in the end, I only post if I’m having fun, and I only write about stuff I know.
cheers-
MiniWOW!
What a reply! ha ha [][][][]Waiting for Michael Reply!!
Cheers
[
]
PropertyGuRu
Who want to be billionaire?“I am not saying that buy and hold is the only strategy to make money in real estate.”
.. This is where the discussion started, your reference to the “richest people are the ones who buy and hold”, in my personal opinion is incorrect, in terms of your definition of “hold” being never to sell.
“you can’t be bothered writing a book teaching me the basics.”
.. When did I ever suggest I would write a book.
“Experts who try and sell novices into investment schemes”
.. The investors we work with must qualify under strict SEC rules, I am not interested in promoting “investment schemes”.
“are you an investor investing your own money, or do you employ ‘specialists’ to invest it for you?”
.. Profits I gain from various transactions are directed into ongoing investments, I employ a team to manage these funds, and our clients contributions.
“huh? Am I being naive”
.. It appears that way.
“So you don’t think that capital gain over ten years is ‘significant’.”
.. Did I say it was not significant? I did say it was a small part of the equation. Ensuring the risk factors do not compromise an investment is more important than speculating on capital gain – which to a greater extent is out of ones control.
“It would make me think you might be a developer.???”
.. I said at the very outset that I am a developer. Although we do invest externally and retain property as a strategic investment, hence stating at the outset that buy and hold is an option to consider – taking many factors into consideration.
“Eventually you can stop purchasing and just live off the income.”.. Why be satisfied simply living off income.
“why not? He’s [Dolph] into buying properties with a twist and adding value. He’s into leverage. can you clarify what DDR does that you would ‘never adhere to’?”
.. You should direct that question to people who have invested in his projects.
“He’s doing really really well!”
.. As I said, he is a very good salesman.
The remainder of your response references someone elses comments, which as noted, I do not agree with in its entirety.
— Michael
Michael, re: my reference to the “richest people are the ones who buy and hold”
I think you’ll find that most of the richest people in the world hold their assets in real estate. Hold meaning in their own name or in trusts or structures controlled by them
Me: “Experts who try and sell novices into investment schemes”
you “.. The investors we work with must qualify under strict SEC rules, I am not interested in promoting “investment schemes”.ah Ok, i was partially right it seems, (see when you ask the right questions you can find out stuff???) Thanks to Robert Kiyosaki – who explains that there are certain investments available to him that are not available to the ‘average investor’ – or newbie, and in the US they have the SEC to monitor these kind of bigger bucks deals, from memory of his books or tapes.
(but that he was once an ordinary investor who leveraged his way up to the ‘big deals’.)“are you an investor investing your own money, or do you employ ‘specialists’ to invest it for you?”
.. Profits I gain from various transactions are directed into ongoing investments, I employ a team to manage these funds, and our clients contributions.Ok bingo, you have clients who invest with you. I think I am getting closer to discovering your personal um, agenda, to use a word that is not meant to insunuate anything sinister.
me: “huh? Am I being naive”
you: .. It appears that way.nice journalistic twisting of my words, but you still didn’t answer the question. I was trying to get you to clarify what you said –
“hold versus sell [“sell” defining several strategies]”
–
I asked the question “am I being naive to think that ‘sell’ means ‘sell’ – as in, cash out, liquidate – and anything other is ‘hold’???”so let me rephrase that so it’s quite clear what i was asking, this time without any attempts at rehetoric (which seemed to go over your head )
I’d like to know about the ‘several strategies’ which you consider define ‘sell’ apart from cash out, liquidate.
Your answers always rebut without rebutting. My question was
“So you don’t think that capital gain over ten years is ‘significant’.”you said ” .. Did I say it was not significant? I did say it was a small part of the equation.”
Stop splitting hairs! ‘Not significant’ means ‘a small part of the equation’ in normal english.
>Ensuring the risk factors do not compromise an investment is more important >than speculating on capital gain – which to a greater extent is out of ones >control.
I agree. Furthermore buy and holding for the long term (7 years plus) means you tend to ride out those humps that people who approach property more like ‘traders’ and speculators try and ride, and cry if they mis-timed it.
“.. I said at the very outset that I am a developer. Although we do invest externally and retain property as a strategic investment, hence stating at the outset that buy and hold is an option to consider – taking many factors into consideration.”
agree.One of the factors I take into consideration is that I have a full-time life, and I am looking for developments which are passive. I want buy and hold rentals. newly renovated and fully maintained at the time of purhase, fully managed, and credited into my account every month. i don’t want to trade a full time life for a full time job as a property trader/developer/deal doer.
The argument against holding means you sell, pay CGT, buy in at the same point in the market, do your thing (renovate/develop) and then sell, repeat formula. Your gain just got diluted with CGT and RE agent’s fees. Plus you have to do a whole lot of work to set up your next deal. Logic tells me that if you think the price has peaked for a while, just revalue it and pull out the equity for whatever you need it for – further developments, or further buy and holds, etc, and hold the sucker! You must agree that if people’s aims are to grow their portfolios from 3 to 20 or from 0- 135. then holding is involved. if you sell everything then you may have cash but your portfolio doesn’t grow.
“Eventually you can stop purchasing and just live off the income.”
.. Why be satisfied simply living off income.For some people, ‘retirement’ means continuing to do what they love, but not having to for income. If you retire and continue to do deals and love it, then cool! But I think living off the income, as I wrote, was meant as ‘you have enough income from your assets to live off without touching the principal’ and you don’t have to work if you don’t want to. Different people will grow their portfolio to different sizes before they think they have ‘enough’ – some will never stop growing it. I’ll probably stop when I have 10 million earning 1 million a year. I can’t imagine needing more than that, unless i develop J-Lo spending habits (doubtful!). i think I can achieve that in 20 years, max. (perfect time-frame for me). I think I will definitely be throwing some developments into my mix along the line, but I won’t be selling them at the end – I’ll be holding them. And if they are negatively geared, I’ll just revalue and finance against them to buy some CF+ve high yielding properties to make up the shortfall.
me: ‘can you clarify what DDR does that you would ‘never adhere to’?”
you: “.. You should direct that question to people who have invested in his projects. “aha, the biggest bingo of the lot –
me: “He’s doing really really well!”
you: “.. As I said, he is a very good salesman. “so the detective in me wonders if you are selling shares sort of like DDR does in his property investing company, (or in some other SEC high-powered way) but you think you are giving much better deals/returns to your clients than DDR is, but he’s much more famous (the books and seminars have leveraged him into this ‘trust me, folks’ position,
and that irks you cause you don’t think he’s doing that good a job for his investors.
Am i right???Is your company available for the average person to invest in, or do you have to be a certain level of investor to qualify?
Can you tell us the name of the company, and does it have a web site?I look forward to your reply
cheers-
MiniInteresting,
the debate you’re having, when you’re not having a debate….[]
Mini, are you available for court appearances?
Sue []“Be careful not to step on the flowers when you’re reaching for the stars”
Fight, fight, fight, fight, fight, fight, …………………………..
[
][][][][]Are you sure that you aren’t both trying to describe an elephant???
!!! heeheee
well there’s two kinds of posts I do here, one is ‘hey, i can answer that question or offer something on the subject’ and the other is ‘wow! this person couldn’t disagree with me more!’
*cracking knuckles to get started*debating makes me really figure out my stance. I guess in a way it’s my favourite, a good debate. I am not really like that at all in real life. I tend to let more confident people that have louder voices shout me down. but on the forums, I can be not only more confident, but smarter perhaps, because I can think about it properly rather than the stress and emotions that would fly around if this was a dinner party conversation. on the forum in a way it’s just mind to mind and i kinda like a bit of that now and again.
Also, the *really* interesting thing is that when anyone strongly strongly disagrees, they usually have a reason, which kind of filters everything they say. and you can often figure out what that is. I enjoy trying to do that, too.
I reckon michael R is possibly on a much bigger scale than lil’ old Minimogul, possibly has some clients he has to make $$$ for in a short time, and trading (selling) is a way to do that. this is from reading between the lines – and I might be totally wrong. he hasn’t got back to reply yet.yes it’s all quite fascinating, really.
cheers-
mini
]
][
] I sense a stampede a-coming….
]
You must be logged in to reply to this topic. If you don't have an account, you can register here.
