After having read many books and studied various investments, I have developed a somewhat cynical view of motives. I read the post about Robert Kiyosaki. I originally followed his words with enormous enthusiasm. However, he now makes me wonder. I tend to believe there wasn’t any rich dad. All the books have become like an ongoing saga – almost a soap opera. You can bet your bottom dollar there are many more books in the pipeline. Will he continue to tell us about new revelations from rich dad? I think he is carried away with his own success.
His basic message isn’t a bad one – educate yourself financially. But he just keeps pumping out educational-type material that has a sameness about it. There are no real specifics, just general ideas. Yet he continues to reap enormous wealth himself in the process.
This leads to my next point. Many well-known share traders and property investors all write books and deliver seminars. In itself there’s nothing wrong with that. However it annoys me when they lead us to believe they make most of their money from their investments, and that their educational activities are a sideline. Come on!
It’s obvious there’s big money in running seminars. Look at the prices. Why, if they are so good at their investments, do they feel the need to charge such high prices? Afterall, they don’t need the money – or do they? I suspect the income from books and seminars funds their investments, especially when markets are bad.
I want to see a share trader or property investor who does it fulltime without selling books and seminars. Does such a beast exist or would that be another amazing story?
Hi Wezwaz,
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“I want to see a share trader or property investor who does it fulltime without selling books and seminars. Does such a beast exist or would that be another amazing story?”They do exist, you just don’t know of them because they haven’t written a book or held a seminar [
]
A few people on this forum are full time property investors, some say they are close to it and many do it part time.
Most of the people here are striving to be full time investors. We are here to learn from others and share our knowledge.Spend some time in here reading the posts, asking questions and doing searches, and you will learn plenty.
Good luck,
Sue []“Be careful not to step on the flowers when you’re reaching for the stars”
Hi,
I want to see a share trader or property investor who does it fulltime without selling books and seminars. Does such a beast exist or would that be another amazing story?There are plenty of successful people who fll into this category, but you never hear of them because they don’t run seminars.
The bottom line is that acquiring eductaion costs money. I bet that those who are a success have either been to seminars or else paid indirectly by making mistakes and learning that way.
I share your thoughts about the Rich Dad thing… but after I realised that it was really just a story I said “Oh well, it helped me and that’s all that counts.”
As for going public, part of the reason for me doing it was to share the message, to earn the income to make resources like this website available.
Cheers,
Steve McKnight
**********
Remember that success comes from doing things differently.
**********Steve McKnight | PropertyInvesting.com Pty Ltd | CEO
https://www.propertyinvesting.comSuccess comes from doing things differently
Howdy wezwaz…
Life’s too short to be cynical, get out and have a crack and don’t worry too much about other people’s motives… YOUR motives for doing what YOU do are all that matters. I’m sure Kiyosaki wouldn’t write more books if there wasn’t demand for them, and Steve wouldn’t have done his, and run seminars if there wasn’t a market… so why begrudge them what rewards come their way?
Cheers
r(ps I haven’t been to a seminar… but I’ve read a lot of books)
I want to see a share trader or property investor who does it fulltime without selling books and seminars. Does such a beast exist or would that be another amazing story?Yep they exist and there are plenty of them… you just have to look in the right places…
However it annoys me when they lead us to believe they make most of their money from their investments, and that their educational activities are a sideline. Come on!My philosphy is: “Give people the best info you have for free, those that will do something with it deserve it, and those that don’t, have no excuse!”
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ALL welcome!Regardless of motives, there is certainly good money to be made. It also helps if the message you are selling is a get-rich-quick one, as people are in general, materialistic.
Not everyone is intelligent/educated enough to know when they’re being conned. Not everyone realises there is no simple formula for success as some of these seminar gurus would have them believe. It is about time organisations like ASIC and the ACCC took an interest.
Out of curiosity, does Anthony Robbins actually make money from anything other than motivational speaking? Has he been successful in any other area?
Tony Robbins has made a heck of a lot of money doing other things. He runs about 9 different companies (I think), and took one public in the last few years, making $400 million in one day, as just one example.
Cheers
MelThere’s heaps of ways to make money out of property besides capital gains and rental income. Landscaping contractors, interior decorators, handymen, property spotters, real estate agents, relocation specialists, rental agents to name but a few. If someone can induce another person too risk averse or lazy to invest on their own account to part with anything from $5,000 to $15,000 to go to a seminar (Henry Kaye was pretty expensive), I wish them all the best.
For some people, going to one of these seminars will be the best $1000 or $10,000 investment they ever made in themselves. I went to a John Kehoe seminar called, I think, Mind Powers, over 15 years ago. It was the best education experience I have ever had bar none. The best $600 or so (which was quite a lot at the time) I ever spent. It did heaps for my investing confidence.
I think you find that there is a huge spectrum of motives – sure you will have those with a primary motive of making a wedge and will be unscrupulous, and then you will have the well meaning. However, what they all exploit is ignorance and avarice. But what truly annoys me is that the titles are so glib – “how I made millions and you can do so too with tuppence, an egg-box carton and some stickyback plastic.”
They are designed to appeal to Mr and Mrs average by manipulating their emotions in the full knowledge that in 4 weeks time the book will be gathering dust next to the Ab-rider from Danoz Direct!
Hi all,
Reading all your different opinions about books and seminars, only one thing comes to my mind.
My ex-husband, who never had a job, claiming that he is too busy studying, went to every seminar, boght every book there is. Costing thousands and thousands of dollars (He was into shares). Still managed to loose everything every single time. He’s record was loosing 275,000 in one day.So I think, you can spend everything you have on study tools, but if you dont have what it takes,than it doesnt matter.
Still, everybody does what they think is right for them, for him it was just anoter week away for a “seminar”
take care[:0)]
275 000???? is that dollars???? if so thats not a good record to have…
tim
Money is an elastic resource, it can be created. Time is not.
Im a bit cautious about going to too many seminars, but I read like a maniac.
Reason is I think it is important to find a strategy that suits you and stick to it. Not chop and change whenever the new flavor comes out.
I am building a booklet of prefered strategies to use for a reference when markets change so that I build consitent results into my strategy for long term wealth…
At the moment it looks something like this…
Property investing:
In a booming market I use…
In a level market I use…
In a falling market I use…Share Trading
In a booming market I use…
In a level market I use…
In a falling market I use…Business etc.
(havent tried this yet so not sure!!!) Maybe in the new year!What the mind of man can conceive and believe, it can achieve.
Many of you would have probably noticed Robert Kiyosaki has his next book on the shelf, “Success Stories”. I won’t be buying it to fund his multimillion dollar lifestyle. By his own admission he has sold over 10 million copies of Rich Dad Poor Dad (not to mention his other books). Now if you had that sort of wealth behind you, would it really matter if a few property deals fell over? I don’t begrudge anyone making money from their knowledge. It’s the excessive amount and the denial that it’s where a lot of their income comes from that I have issue with.
Kiyosaki is a great marketer though. You can’t take that away from him. And at least he makes us think about what we are doing with our lives and gives us a wake-up call. For anyone interested, you might like to check out a critical article on him in the latest copy of “The New Investor” magazine at your newsagent. Food for thought.
All your discussion in this post has been interesting. Everyone needs a healthy level of cynicism to survive in this world. If you don’t, you will eventually be taken advantage of. There’s nothing surer. That’s the way the world is – many good people, but also many crooks – and today it is more difficult than ever to tell the difference.
One of the original points I was driving at is there is far too much hype in the investment world. There needs to be a good dose of reality to neutralise it. There are too many spruikers telling us how we can make a killing out of this, that and the other, e.g. the theory says you can make money no matter what the share market is doing. Yeh right. Big money is made in a bull market, not a bear or sideways market. Lots of people wax on about all these fancy strategies. They probably have never even used the strategies they talk about, or have only read about them. Reality and theory are poles apart.
It’s fine to be motivated to become an educated investor. That is my aim, but I also understand it takes a lot of ongoing work, study and trial-and-error, and even then that doesn’t guarantee me a thing. I am becoming more aware of the reality and the risks. No-one ever got rich doing nothing – winning a lottery being the exception. Anyone who thinks differently will come a gutser, that is for sure. And herein lies the danger. Young/naive people come to believe they can get rich with little effort and this is where hype goes to work. It is human nature to want to get rich quickly, but it can’t and won’t happen. You are dreaming if you think otherwise. Better get ready for the long haul.
Hi wezwaz
Let me start by saying I don’t run seminars!
I have to disagree with your statement“e.g. the theory says you can make money no matter what the share market is doing. Yeh right. Big money is made in a bull market, not a bear or sideways market. “
I’ve done a lot of options trading, as well as share trading, and yes, you can make big money in a bear market. I’ve done it plenty of times. You just need to use different strategies. A sideways market is trickier, I’ve found it’s possible to make a steady return, but not the big returns you can get in a bull and bear market.
It’s good to be cynical up to a point, but also don’t let your cynicism lead you to believe that something isn’t possible. Maybe it is, you just haven’t found out how. []Keep smiling
FelicityFelicity,
I agree. Definately possible to make big money in bear market and occasionally in a sideways market. Don’t it make you feel good, too!
As for seminars, my husband and I had one IP, but didn’t really know what we were doing or why we had it. We just figured we should. We attended one seminar (a 4 day one), something neither of us would normally consider doing. Those 4 days put everything in perspective for us, and now, 3 years later, we are doing very well thank you. Not saying it’s the right thing for everyone, but I tell you, it was the best investment I have ever made.[
]Cheers,
Karen“Not everyone is intelligent/educated enough to know when they’re being conned. Not everyone realises there is no simple formula for success”
agree with the first part. That’s why it’s soooo important to question, question – until you understand.
The second part, i don’t agree with. i think there is a simple formula (for wealth).
it’s – eliminate consumer debt (‘doodads’)
spend less than you earn, and invest the surplus in income producing assets which hold their value i.e.stocks and bonds, building businesses, or real estate (RE being the ‘safest’ in my opinion.) Then, leverage the assets to acquire more assets.this is basically what they are all saying – from John Burley, to Kiyosaki, to Anita Bell, etc etc
So simple. And the ones who aren’t doing well aren’t adhering to that simplicity, in one way or another – even if they have high paying jobs.
cheers-
Mini“e.g. the theory says you can make money no matter what the share market is doing. Yeh right. Big money is made in a bull market, not a bear or sideways market. “
Yup, Felicity and Scully are dead right. As a matter of fact the worst thing one can do is learn to trade in a booming bull market. People tend to mistake their initial success for genius….Then the bear comes along and bites them on the bum[
][] ouch!I must admit, the easiest money to make is in a raging bull market…unless you like writing options, then sideways is good.
Cheers
WayneFelicity, Karen and Wayne
Can I assume you all make your living through trading, i.e. purely trading without selling education and other material? If so, what sort of capital do you allocate to the market to achieve this. Of course, there’s no way you are in paid employment. Would you maybe give a few numbers to show the sorts of returns you are making. What about your favoured strategies for bear and sideways markets which enable you to make gains? Look forward to your feedback. Thanks.
Hi wez,
My sole income is from trading, I write a few articles from time to time for my website, mentioned below; which for the moment is completely free.
Sooner or later i will write articles on bear sidways market strategies, but such strategies are available elswhere in cyberspace now….usually for a fee[
]>> If so, what sort of capital do you allocate to the market to achieve this.<<
Providing that your trading system has a positive expectancy, and you have the appropriate risk profile and are psychologically equipped for it, I would say a minimum of 200k, preferably more. Many traders do it with less, many traders require much more capital than this to trade for a living.
The secret is in Money Management[
]N.B. This is my opinion only, please consult your advisors yada yada yada.
On why traders offer trading education:
1/boredom
2/It’s extra money, why the hell not!
3/To augment and crystalize their own trading methods.
That said, there are hundreds of sheisters who couldn’t trade their way out of a paper bag who sell trading courses….you have good reason for your cynicism; but never throw the baby out with the bathwater[
]WAyne
Hi wezwaz
I stopped trading about a year ago, mainly because I found that with ferrying kids about to kinder, school etc I wasn’t around to focus and analyse when I needed to be.
I didn’t draw a huge income from it, I had capital of around $50,000 which was mostly used in margin so I could write naked calls and puts (this is where I write options but don’t own the underlying share – not for the feint hearted, let me tell you!!!).
I averaged (and I mean AVERAGED) around $3000 per month return. Mind you, I had one month where I lost nearly $10,000. ouch!
It taught me a lot about myself and my strengths and weaknesses. I definitely wouldn’t recommend options trading to someone who hasn’t been successfully trading shares for a while first. I had been doing that (albeit on a smaller scale).Keep smiling
Felicity
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