Just attended the Ed Burton seminar in Sydney (Nov/03), and here’s my review (for what it’s worth).
Sitting in a small, cramped seat for 10 hours a day over 2 days is no fun. Should you pay $1480 to be there?
Did I get a lot out of it?
Will you?
The short answer is this: Frankly, it’s value to you will depend entirely on what you already know and where you’re coming from.
It’s immediately apparent that Ed’s an intelligent and switched-on man. He’s created a simple (“simplistic”?) “strategy” for amassing $1,000,000 within 4-12 years. The seminar covers the five facets of the strategy and then ties them all together with the “Master Strategy”. Well, that’s the pitch, anyway.
I felt Ed’s seminar was most in need of an editor. He’d take your eyes off problems with pre-emptive phrases like “I don’t want this to be polished — I’m not a pro — I’m just passionate about this”. Which may all be true. But then why is the CD series so polished-looking? And why does the seminar run pretty much like clockwork? Anyway, I think a very careful re-working of the seminar content is in order (to trim the fat and clarify the meat), and afterwards, it could really sing with a renewed sense of focus.
The question-and-answer sections throw Ed into the best light. There’s no doubt to me that his seminar does indeed contain value (particularly if you don’t know anything about this kind of stuff) and that he knows a lot about the topic he’s covering. My only gripe is that — for me — the seminar content was not the valuable bit. The Q&A bits were. The content itself is mostly a lot of the same tried-and-true seminar stuff you’ve seen before (if you’ve been to them all before, or even read the seminar gurus’ books). And Ed’s biggest problem as a presenter is that he jumps ahead of the crowd. (You can’t say “Everyone understand?” to a crowd of 900+ people and assume silence means “Yes”.)
The “strategies” outlined all seem to work on paper, and are thoroughly explained (in the manual, that is — I didn’t think he was particularly effective at explaining it all to the large group he was addressing). The only problem is that the numbers are always so rosey. Ed will say things like “I know I’m not including stamp duty in the example, but just understand the idea”. Which is reasonable in the course of education. However, when the rest of the strategy relies on those rosey numbers, then the stamp duty suddenly puts you much further from the target than you thought you were.
Part of his online sales pitch is that you don’t need anything MORE than what’s offered at the workshop, in order to run out and start implementing it. That’s where it started to fall apart for me. There was just too much “trust me” and too many post-seminar products and services on offer (hasn’t anyone taught him about the concept of “staggering” the offers??). Ed was already pitching his wares before completing the first section! How can I know if I want the CD series before I even hear what’s in the seminar??! It worked against the message. And I wasn’t the only one who thought so. Someone else even put their complaint in the question box, and it was read out for all to hear. It was nicely deflected by Martin-the-sidekick, and the pro-Ed contingent cheered loudly, but the point is that Ed hasn’t yet mastered the art of the upsell.
Don’t get me wrong. I found Ed to be quite genuine, I just hated having half-hour chunks of the seminar devoted to these post-seminar products and services. He sells a CD series of the info he covers at the seminar for about the same price as the seminar. He also sells overpriced software to play around with real estate numbers. He also sells a monthly CD series, teleconference calls, and mentoring services. He also offers company and trust structures. He can do your financial planning (for $500 an hour). His friend does the offshore broker thing. He’s got a book to sell. And so on.
I don’t have a problem with anyone selling their own knowledge. More power to him. What I DON’T like is being promised that the seminar is “all you need” and then hearing a completely different tune AT the workshop: “You guys have gotta get the software, I can’t believe it’s not all sold out yet!”
In Sydney this past weekend, by my (conservative) estimate, the 945-seat Clancy Auditorium at UNSW was about 95% filled. Allowing for 10% freebies from “members of the Inner Circle” and another say 5% for discounts and giveaways, I’m figuring 80% of the crowd was paying full price. Going on the guest rate (your partner gets in at a discount) of $1280, they grossed $967,000 (again, conservative). Factoring in advertising costs (which he admits are low) and venue costs, and staff and catering costs (eat quick — caterers run out early) of even $100,000, you’re still looking at $850,000 (again, conservative).
And that’s just the seminar. You do your own maths on all the hard-sell extras.
Before you think I’m angry about this, please note: I’m not upset that he’s made a fortune here! Not at all.
I don’t begrudge anyone their success.
But I do weigh up the value of what I receive versus what I paid.
I paid $1480.
Personally, I already knew about 90% of what was on offer. And frankly, if you’ve been in your own business, read a small handful of books on real estate (let alone invested), know ANYTHING about the offshore investment world, and can see past the superannuation debacle in this country, you’ll already know about 90% of it, too.
I found the material over-simplistic, and saw the same number-shifting that all other hype-driven seminars do (“let’s assume a 10% rate of return for the next 5 years — it’s just an example”). Again, conceptually, yes, that’s fine. But when the “Master Strategy” is built around the numbers (and would take 2 to 3 times as long with smaller numbers), I’d say you’re pushing it a bit.
That said, I do know a bit about each of the five “secrets” (why are these guys always referring to common knowledge as a “secret”??), and if you don’t already know this stuff, Ed’s seminar is probably valuable. You’d at least learn a lot of conceptual basics in one weekend. But don’t think you can’t get it all from books, instead.
In conclusion, I’ll just say that yes, I did find value in this seminar. But no, it was not nearly the value of the price they charge. (And, frankly, comparisons to $5,000 or $10,000 seminars by others — or how much money you’ve now saved having done the seminar — is simply not justification for the pricetag.)
If you don’t know anything about what he covers, then I might consider attending.
If you do, I think it’s terribly overpriced.
* * *
NOTE: Please don’t ask for me to share the specifics of the seminar, or his exact techniques. I won’t do it. Ed Burton and his team have spent time and energy putting it together, and they’re entitled to make money from their efforts. I consider them to be genuine and knowledgeable people. And yes, I did find value in their seminar. If you want to find that value, attend it for yourself.
I welcome feedback on this review, and whether or not you found it helpful.
Happy wealth-building.
Oz
hi oz
thanks for going to the trouble of answering my question. i was offered a spot at the last seminar by a client at 200 off, $1,280 by using her name. she had sent me a cd and other info about it. i was probably more interested in property than his other ideas which as you said are not too hard to learn about for yourself. i can't imagine he lets you know where to buy real estate. like steve he gives you why and how and sends you onn youre way. i have found steve's book really helpfull.
thanks again
roboHello. I know this is a really old posting, so i’m not sure if I’ll get a reply. I am one of those people who know absolutely nothing about property investing and was sent an invitation to attend this seminar. My concern is that he states in his invitation that he is a really wealthy guy and doing this to earn points with God, but surely if he were that wealthy and wanting to earn sooo many points he could do that by doing his seminars at cost price or marginal profit. Any way, that said, as I am a newbie, who’s just starting to look into property investing and the tricky tax cuts that ed burton talks about, I was wondering if you could give some suggestions on which authors you would recommend i start with to give me a bit of sensible background on what these people are all on about!
thanks
jacintaHi Jacinta
I can recommend 3 simple and easy to read books for a bit of background knowledge about the game.
1. Anyone can be a millionaire, Sean O’Reilly
2. Building wealth through investment property, Jan Sommers (not so simple but a ‘must read’)
3. 0 – 130 properties in 3.5 years, Steve McKnight
Not sure about the spelling of those names.The first one is by a teacher on a modest salary who became a millionaire within 8 years (before this crazy boom of the last few years).
The second one in particular contains techniques that have stood the test of time.
The third concentrates mostly on cash flow +ve properties, is a much quicker read and more simplistic than the others and more relevant to the last few years.
Reading these three will expose you to a few different ideas and give you a good place to start from.
Regarding expensive seminars, cd’s and the like: just don’t unless there is a money back guarantee. It’s too hard to tell beforehand if it’s a scam and why wouldn’t there be a money back guarantee if the presenter is confidant of providing useful info? There is a seminar I’m thinking of going to where you get your money back if you don’t feel it’s been worth it by half way through. It seems reasonable to me. I’d certainly never charge someone for a service they weren’t happy with, would you?
Regards
JudiI have heard both good and bad things about Ed Burton’s seminars. Oz16Oz2 specifically said that there is nothing in the seminar that you cannot get out of books. So out of the people who have attended the seminar, can you recommend any good Books along the same line?
Rod
Okay.. another old Ed Burton thread I’ve found in my search. I just wanted to add to it as I’m one of those people who happen-ed upon Ed B. much earlier than this website and thus Steve McK.
I attended the Brisbane seminar when Ed was in a wheelchair. I also bought (have paid if off so I own it fully) the CDs spoken about… and was a member of the Gold circle for just over the last year (since I’ve been busy working, I never was able to be part of the teleconferences and/or phone-ins.. so I mainly paid $280 for the information found within the CDs given to me each month).
I have only recently (this month) cancelled my $280 per month gold membership as I would much prefer to use that towards my health due to the physical nature of my work (main business).
Anyway, I didn’t make the decision to leave the Gold wealth mentoring program lightly. Now that I’ve quit it.. I can’t go back to it. Once a member quits the Gold program, the spot is offered to someone from the Silver mentor program… and therefore gone for good.
Kinda grieving the loss as I did learn alot from Ed. He did and does seem genuine.
He also makes a killing as there are alot of people paying $280 per month to be part of the Gold mentor program.
Just another opinion from someone who learnt all about property investing and so forth from Ed Burton. He gave me the start.
I’m hoping that this forum (its members) and thus Steve McK will be able to be my guides and mentors from now on since I’m no longer part of that group.
What I do find interesting is that Ed warns against wraps (vendor financing)… he isn’t “in favour” of it.. and thus doesn’t really promote it… whereas Steve McK does… hmm…
Wishing everyone radiant health!
Vanessa
4 out of 5 Taste Buds Surveyed Preferred > http://url123.com/wa2ev
For Australians Only > http://got.to/liveafunlifeVanessa, you will also find the information you learn here is a much better price… FREE!!!
The Mortgage Adviser
http://www.themortgageadviser.com.au
[email protected]
Essential LinksMortgage Advisor – you are right. I really wish I came across this website sooner. It is one of the main reasons why I decided to stop with the Gold mentor program.
I figured that I know the basics… that when I was prepared to actually go ahead and “go for it” (as I’m still v-much in the learning phase due to not having the $$ behind me yet)… I could come to here for support, advise and so forth.
Wishing everyone radiant health!
Vanessa
4 out of 5 Taste Buds Surveyed Preferred > http://url123.com/wa2ev
For Australians Only > http://got.to/liveafunlifeI have noticed this post pretty late, seeing it was done back in 2003, but just wanted to congratulate Oz on his/her detailed analysis on one of Ed Burton’s seminars. This can really help us in making a decision whether to attend or not.
Ed reckons he doesn’t need the money. Give us a break. When you look at the money he is making from educational materials it’s obvious he is raking it in. $280/month to be a member of his Gold Mentor program? Gee, that must include some pretty high powered stuff.
This is one of the biggest issues with wealth seminar presenters. Why can’t they just come out and say, “I am in the business of selling education (at exorbitant prices) and that’s how I generate a lot of my income to enable me to fund further investments.” Look, I may not agree with them, but at least they will have my respect for being honest. It is one of the most basic human traits we all value – honesty.
Just think…. that Golden circle is how big ??
lets say it’s limited to 1000 people…. so, he’s earning how much now boys n girls ??? 280,000 PER MONTH……
Bloody ell… !!!!
Let’s be really conservative and say there are only 100 members, which means $28,000/month. Not bad money in anyone’s language. Ed is just another philanthropic seminar presenter who doesn’t need the money.
Surely, even if you are a supporter of expensive wealth education, this must make you wonder just a little bit as to some of the motives.
Hi Gold Coast girl and others,
I recently cancelled my Gold membership too, and since this thread has resurfaced, I thought I’d share the reasons why.
After getting promotional material from Ed last year, I decided to go to the seminar because, despite the hype, he said he had 25 yrs experience as an accountant, and some serious qualifications. However, his seminar was very sketchy and very expensive as the reviewer who started this thread noted. There were some ideas which I personally had not come across before, so I got something out of it, but later I have discovered many of the same ideas in Margaret Lomas’s books, only in much better detail and explanation.
A couple of weeks after the seminar, Ed bombarded seminar attendees with hype encouraging them to become members of the “Inner Circle” – pay an unbelievably cheap $280/month and get Ed as your personal coach and mentor, plus all the inside information on the “hottest” positive real estate areas, “detailed research of specific suburbs, including findings and recommendations.” The sales letter promised that Ed’s website included “22 postcodes on our ‘buy’ list. We have looked at 182 postcodes that might fit my strategy and selected only the very best.”
Sounded good. Despite misgivings and a tight budget, I signed up for Gold membership.
Alas, it appeared that, by the time I did, Mr Burton was getting out of real estate, and was spending less and less time on the subject during the teleconferences, and more and more time on his main love, marketing. He admitted he was no longer buying property (“I mean, when do you stop?†= obviously too early, if you’re a real estate mentor). The promised research was nowhere to be found on his website, which contained very scant information, really only for use during the monthly teleconferences, which were the most useful feature of the membership because you got to hear from the other members, who, like the members on this website, had a significant amount of knowledge between them. However, Ed did not seem to like requests by people to get in touch with each other, and would insist that people only revealed their contact details through him by fax.Like others who have commented in this thread, I find his “this is God’s work, I don’t do it for the money, I only want to make you guys millionaires†line offensive and ridiculous. If he was really interested in turning members into millionaires, he would have made his website into something like this website, where people could freely exchange information.
As it was, I grew increasingly disillusioned, as month after month he spent time on matters outside the promised areas, such as marketing, was offensive and contemptuous towards members (“I mean have you ever met a smart lawyer?†“You’re an idiot.â€), and frequently cut short people who were sharing really interesting information, in order to move onto his new baby – marketing asset protection consultancies. This is what Mr Burton is pouring all his energy into currently, having been sued himself early on in his career which seems to have left him with an insatiable bitterness towards anyone seeking to redress grievances, whether justified or not – they all merit the term “scumbagâ€.
And the price tag on these “Asset Protection Consultancies†is just like his price tag on his other products. $22,000 to buy into a business of scaring ordinary people into buying asset protection measures they may or may not need, at very inflated prices due to the fact they are buying them from these middlemen Consultants, fully backed up by the Ed Machine.
During the seven months I was a Gold member, I only remember hearing Ed make one recommendation about where to buy. People would constantly ask, “Where is a good place to buy, Ed?” His continual answer: “Cairns”. “What about Tasmania?†“Can’t help you there.†“What about Moranbah and Mt Isa?†“Yeah, some of “the guys†have bought there, but I wouldn’t touch them.â€
At least he disclosed that he and his family owned dozens of properties in Cairns, but what happened to the 22 postcodes that his sales hype promised fitted his strategy? No-one ever asked him! See, by the time you get on these teleconferences, you’ve largely forgotten what all his hype material promises. Plus, there are dozens of other people on the line, treating him like Mr God (wow, he has so much money, he’s so successful). Genuine? Yes, he’s genuinely interested in making lots of money – but he insists he does it because it’s “God’s work†– and that just doesn’t add up.
The upshot is, Mr Burton’s sales material was misleading and deceptive. He did not deliver what he promised. He was rude and offensive. He also made untrue statements. One woman asked in the February teleconference, “I’m having difficulty renting out my house in Cairns (surprise surprise, after all the investor activity there) – have you heard others having the same problem?†– to which Ed replied, “No, no, I haven’t heard that at all.†Yet he had himself made reference, on two previous occasions, to other people who had also found the same problem. Too busy? Too many things going on? Got confused? Maybe. In that case, he shouldn’t be “mentoringâ€.
Suffice to say I got very little out of those sessions. One other Gold member accurately commented that about 10 percent of what was said during the teleconferences was useful. $280 for 10 percent of 90 minutes, i.e. 9 minutes. Nice work if you can get it. And oh, those one-to-one telephone calls with Mr Burton? Unless you’re unemployed and have time to redial fifty times, forget it. If you’ve got a day job and you can spare only a few minutes, you will likely not get through, because Mr Burton has so many members all trying to get through on the nominated days, that the phone is constantly busy. And even if you do make it through to him, prepare for him to be rushed, he won’t explain concepts properly, he’ll give you broad brush strokes and a lot of verbiage that leaves you feeling confused.
The final straw was the following conversation, where I dared stick out my neck, despite the hordes of Ed devotees on the teleconference in February. Mr Ed told followers that his wife Kath had dispensed with the services of a Cairns real estate agent because he wouldn’t, or couldn’t, rent out one of her houses.
Ed: “If Kath doesn’t think a managing agent is performing, she doesn’t stand for it.â€
Me: “What would she do?†(bearing in mind she’s signed a legal contract with the agent).
Ed: “Piss off!â€
Me: “I beg your pardon?â€
Ed: “Piss off! Can I make it any clearer?â€
Me: “Er, yes. Do you mean she would rescind the contract with the managing agent?â€
Ed: “Well I can’t give legal advice…â€
Me: “I’m not asking for legal advice, I’m asking what Kath would do.â€
Ed: “Well fax me tomorrow and I’ll tell you.â€
In other words, spend more time and money than you’re already outlaying, in order to get the information I promised to give you for $280.
In short, I would never have entered the twelve-month contract with Mr Ed for Gold membership, had I known how far short it would fall of his marketing hype.
Seven months through, I cancelled the contract, and Mr Ed accepted the cancellation. I only wish I could have got a refund, but that was something he did not offer.What remains with me, is the gullibility of so many people out there, who continue to allow people like Ed to get away with not delivering on their promises.
So Gold Coast Girl, if I were you I wouldn’t waste one second on regrets. The only thing I miss is the contact with other members, but as that was seriously limited by Ed anyway, this is a small loss, and I can more than make up for it by making contacts through this site.
As for Ed’s material – it’s worth nothing to me. Anyone out there who wants to pay the postage, can have his manual and 7 months of CDs for free. I reckon Mr Ed has already been paid handsomely for the effort he’s put into it.
Regards,
CruiserThanks Cruiser, for letting us know of your real life experience. So now we are getting a much clearer picture of Ed Burton’s wealth education and motives. Not so rosy I’d say.
More interesting stuff and opinions, thanks to those who posted..
“Money is a currency, like electricity and it requires momentum to make it Effective”
Count The Currency With This Online Positive Cashflow CalculatorHi All
I don’t like to bag anyone but I have heard a few negative reports about Ed.
I have a close friend who did a 12 month mentoring course and was less that impressed. Not with the info shared, but Ed’s bombastic attitude.
Of course it may have been a personality clash but my friend is a really easy going person who normally gets along with everyone.
He said that Ed should brush up on his people skills as he has none, he is as subtle as a brick through a plate glass window: his words not mine.
KerwynDear Cruzier and OZ
Thank you for sharing your PERSONAL experience with these gurus – they are stink and stink… They pick some tricks from each other and then blast each other on forums…
I have sent a number of anti-guru and anti-seminar ($$$) posts at these public forums to warn new investors.
Remember: there is no free food in the world. They are not doing for god. Maybe their god is $$$.
Another guru site – Investor Club is much worse that these gurus. https://www.propertyinvesting.com/forum/topic/16965/4.html?sortfield=&sortorder=
New investors: reading, reading, researching, researching, networking networking… Do not waste your $$$$ to become these guru’s source of income.
Originally posted by kerwyn:Hi All
I don’t like to bag anyone but I have heard a few negative reports about Ed.Kerwyn
Hehe Kerwyn, I DO love to bag some of the guru’s, that’s why it’s such a shame that I have nothing to add, all of you have said it for me.
Just want to add this, for fun:
Marge: “Homer, it’s so easy to criticise…”
Homer: “Yeah and a lot of fun, too!”Celivia
How many people here have actually seen him?????
CATA
Asset Protection Specialist
[email protected]Ed Burton and a fellow called Endre Dobozy promote a book called ChildsPlayInvesting.
My wife paid for that book but never received the passcodes to access the book. Mr Dobozy seems to be a fraud as he does not reply to emails, faxes or phone messages. Also, two of the phone numbers he lists are not connected.
If Mr Dobozy is the fraud he appears to be then I am wondering about the integrity of Ed Burton since he is associated with him.I had a quick search and a look on the net..this guy lives in Vanuata?
He promotes “Off Shore Investing” and how to do it by investing in overseas Mutual Funds such as the Templeton growth fund,Nicholas Applegate US Growth Fund etc.
I think the intent is to use Vanuata as a tax haven, mail redirection service etc etc..dodgy
I’ve seen Ed Burton talk about Offshore Investing, but dont see the link to this guy?Wasp
**************************************************Its not what you earn but what you do with what you earn
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