What do people think about the ACCC’s latest crusade?
Do you know of any such scammers where you live or in your investment hunting grounds?
What are your views? My view is that these people are partly responsible for driving up property prices to much and too quickly, which makes it difficult for first time investors and home buyers to get in. And when the “bubble” bursts, what happens? (sorry – that last question is probably a whole new thread in itself)
Cheers
MHere’s the article:
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The ACCC has announced that it is targeting misleading and deceptive conduct by property “scammers”. ACCC Chairman, Mr Graeme Samuel, said the ACCC investigation is on 4 fronts: (i) 2-tier marketing; (ii) advice given by financial consultants, solicitors and valuers; (iii) unconscionable conduct by financial institutions; and (iv) real estate investment seminars. He said the ACCC is particularly concerned that in a very hot property market, “Mum and Dad” investors and superannuants are being pressured into joining property investment programs that promise massive wealth through property investment, but the “investors” seem often to end up only with large debts and advice which they have little hope of utilising.
Mr Samuel said the ACCC has directed extra resources to this area. Schemes are being currently investigated with a view to possible court action, principally for misleading and deceptive conduct. The ACCC is also investigating whether agents are directing investors to financial consultants, solicitors and valuers without disclosing that they are not independent. As well, the ACCC is examining claims that financial institutions have been involved in, or at least aware of, the 2-tier marketing practices yet failed to disclose market valuations and provided loans substantially in excess of the market value.
Source: ACCC media release MR 185/03, 2 September 2003
Hi there,
For many of us, I don’t think this comes as any surprise. Perhaps the ACCC should stop talking and start doing something. I’ve been targetted and hit by these marketers many times. I’ve posted about it too.
Unfortunately, other than misleading people and giving false information, what they do is not technically illegal.
I guess it’s why the mantra of “Buyer Beware” and “Due Diligence” is always repeated (perhaps ad nauseum for regular forumites)Cheers
Sooshie [
]“small steps make the journey” (SAS)
I understand that property is not defined as a security under the financial services legislation (including the Financial Services Reform Act). Therefore, dealing in property is not heavily regulated. I think this is the whole problem.
I think property advisers should be licensed (in the same manor as financial planners). This might take some air out of their sales pitches.
Cheers
Stu
Property & Finance News
at http://www.prosolution.com.auHey Sooshie – it’s actually illegal for a company to engage in misleading or deceptive conduct. The Trade Practices Act give people who get burnt the right to seek compensation, among other things. What you’d usually do is to try to get the ACCC to take over the matter, so you don’t have to pay a fortune in legal fees trying to bring the scammers to account. The hard bit is actually trying to convince the ACCC to do so, given that they’ve got other dodgy operators in different industries to target as well.
Stu – the key term in the new FSR regime is “Financial Product”. But you’re right. real property is not a financial product. However, it seems that ASIC and the Federal Government are also taking steps to bring the regulation of property investment advisers under ASIC’s power. The question is when will it happen?
Cheers
MHi M,
I mentioned it’s not technically illegal, because many of these people doing the scamming, have titles eg “Financial advisor” etc, and hence it is hard to prove that they are infact misleading or being deceptive, especially if they can turn around and say “at the time it was good advice for Mr X,Y or Z’s situation at the time”. I think Stu is right, the area is largely unregulated. You ask – When will it happen? I’m sure we will see some changes before the next boom begins, but will they be enough to ward off the cons!
Cheers
Sooshie []“small steps make the journey” (SAS)
Yes, every boom brings its con artists.
The share boom brought its share of trading packages and tipsters.
Maybe this is saying something, like, are we nearing the end of the boom and starting to bust?
In America I believe, property is startin go a bit flat.We were just talking about this the other day.
Our newspapers are starting to be filled with ads for share, options and futures trading seminars. Is this the smart scammers moving into the next boom?
Cheers
Simon Macks
Mortgage Hunter
[email protected]
0425 228 985Crashy – where’s that book ?!? [
]
Melgeez Mel I dunno, Ive only shown the people an 8% return in 2 hours, lets not go nuts! lol
2pm:
sold 1000 RIO 3496
bought 1000 NAB 3090
(cross-sector pairs trade)4pm:
NAB @ 3100 (+$100)
RIO @ 3079 (+$170)total = $270. investment = $3300 (5% margin)
return = 270/3300 = 8.2% [8D]those who got on my email list know what Im going on about, those who didnt……. [
]Crashy,
Lets have a look at your last HUNDRED trades to give the readers here a fair idea of the true return.
Losses are a part of share/derivitave trading also.
But in fairness to crashy a successful trader using CFDs can have a return on capital in the 100’s% per annum[
]Cheers
WayneMY last 100 trades are irrelevant, Im not asking people to let me manage their money, Im educating them so they can manage their own. Secondly, its easy to lie about past trades, impossible to lie about a trade in real time, plus people are more interested if they can watch it happen before their eyes.
By the way, its now 16% !
MY last 100 trades are irrelevant, Im not asking people to let me manage their money, Im educating them so they can manage their own. Secondly, its easy to lie about past trades, impossible to lie about a trade in real time, plus people are more interested if they can watch it happen before their eyes.By the way, its now 16% !
A noble pursuit Crashy.
But, in my experience as a trader my last 100 trades are VERY relevant….so are the next 100!!!!
A 500% profit on one trade is irrelevant in the broad scheme of things, if the trader is behind at the end of the year.
Trading cfd’s is great for screen jockeys like you and me. It is less appropriate for people with an investor mindset.
Most good traders start their career losing a significant wad of cash before they figure the game out. This is an phenominum that is important to point out to people who are contemplating having a bash at trading.
I am not trying to bag you m8 but I know so many people who get involved with trading who have unrealistic expectations both of the market and themselves, who end up getting hurt. All because the seminar/book/newsletter sellers sugarcoated it.
One example of things that can happen to a trader:
Lets say that we were long 4000 AMP prior to 05/05/2003 @$8.00- A trader would be very justified in having this position
Our Cfd margin(ie our investment) at 5% is $1600
on the 5th of May opens at $5.53 and we are stopped out
We have just lost $3880 which is -242.5% on our investment!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thats why previous and subsequent 100 trades are so important! Its the bottom line at the end of the year that counts!!
Cheers
WayneOh yeah,
Should mention one other thing about trading. Open profit is not profit. Profit can only be counted once the trades are closed.
Crashy’s strategy outlined above, unless it is now closed, is now $30.00 in the red.
Again, not having a go at you crashy, but just showing the reality of trading.[
]Cheers
Sooshie,
I have to take you to task here, in one of your replies to this post you satated the CON-Artists get away with it because they hide behind being a “financial Advisor”.I am a financial advisor and a real estate agent and director of a small fiancial planning company. I do not consider myself to be a con artist! Yes I sell properties namely off the plan and in most cases, the client doesn’t pay for them until they are built, and generally they have a +ve equity position because of the discount and the market growth by the time that they do pay for them.
In case you are wondering….I do take offence at being labelled a con artist!! In all fairness the same can be said for a lot of “Wrappers”. I’m not saying wrapping is illegal (except SA), but in every industry / group there are bad apples.
PLEASE do not make those sort of remarks so flippently…….there are always genuine operators trying to make a buck in this world not just for themsdelves but also for their clients.[
!]ROFL…my mathematics[
]Correction: In the AMP case above we would have lost $9,880 not $3,880 which is -617.5% not -242.5%
oops[
]cheers
Hi there,
Investigator, perhaps my tendancy for late night “Foot in Mouth Disease” was rife last night, but I believe I mentioned the word ‘many‘ which implies some, but not all.
because many of these people doing the scamming
It’s great to see yourself defending your occupation and I’m sure there are many honest and legit operators like yourself who have been given a bad rap because of the doosies out there. Just as you mentioned about WRAPS. Wouldn’t you like to see more regulations in your area of work so that these sort of mistakes cannot happen?FYI scammers don’t always get away with it, but we were discussing the point about the fact that the industry is largely unregulated thereby allowing some of the ‘bad apples’ to use their title to avoid being litigated. This is a blight on all the good ‘Financial advisors’ or honest ‘wrappers’ even for that matter honest ‘car salesman’ out there, who do it tough because of the one’s who don’t have any integrity.
It was not my intention to imply that the ‘title’ of ‘Financial advisor’ equates with being a scammer.
My opinion might be somewhat biased considering I’ve had a number of dealings with marketers (as this is what I was referring to) and those I’ve come across have been less than honest. However you can see how one bad apple can spoil the rest.So I guess, I wish I’d come across your services earlier, my opinion might have been different. Please understand it is our life experiences which shape our impressions, ideas and thoughts.
Cheers
Sooshie []“small steps make the journey” (SAS)
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