To paraphrase Bruce:
blah, blah, blah… I don’t pay taxes, not me, no siree!…blah, rant, spew, blah…oh, I’m just a country boy, too…snort, scratch, rant, rant…doing the”deed” with his daughter…oink, snort, blah, blah…my wife barks so I don’t have to… blah, waffle, fizzle, fizzle.
End of paraphrase.
Yes, all welcome and creative discussion on property investing. I’m sure we can’t wait for the next gem.
Michael, that’s one of the funniest posts i’ve ever read. [
] Don’t hold back now…..hello again,
Richmond, my new best mate!!(Your footy team hasn’t done anything since the West Aussie boys left the team.Perhaps I can pull on my boots and show them a thing or to. Couldn’t do any worse).
The reason I don’t pay taxes
is that my borrowings are so high. I own the taxi
but I lease the car and all the tracking equipment
plus the computers, radio transmitter,etc.
So It’s not that hard to legally avoid paying taxes. Just keep borrowing. I’m now checking out buying another taxi plate.In Sydney they sell for just under $300k.If you lease the plate to an operator, the return is $410 per week.Which is
7.2%.Not a good return, but there’s no overheads.
If the operator doesn’t pay the monthly installment, you just take back the plate!
SOOOOOO lovely to be in debt!!!!! I sleep like I’m
dead. Not the bank manager, tosses and turns all night.
Bruce G.
Winners make it happen.
Losers let it happen.Hi Bruce,
I think you may have the wrong idea on tax reductions. Paper loses, the type you see from real estate I would consider ‘good’ deductions. Expense deductions, the type you see from leases and borrowings I would consider ‘income reductions’ and thus ‘bad’. Maybe you don’t pay tax because you make no money?
You may also have the wrong idea on the concept of leverage. The reason banks are willing to lend so much on real estate is because there is an asset (the property) in which to secure finance against. I’m not familiar with taxi licences so I’m not sure what a bank is willing to lend, I’m guessing maybe 60% on a business loan at a rate several % higher than residential lending?
This is why residential real estate returns are so attractive – you can put down 10% of the properties value yet get the whole rental return, the capital growth and paper deductions against your taxable income.
But, I assume you already know this because you have several properties.
Leigh
“If you can count your money, you don’t have a billion dollars”
J. Paul Gettyhello again and again,
Leigh, your post was right,we all pay taxes,
in directly or directly, more than likely both.
Taxes are paid in different forms,stamp duty,
mortgage insurances,stamp duty on the mortgage etc
Your property manager taxes you every month, GST.
SSoo I told a lie when I said I don’t pay taxes,
sorrrrrry everyone, I lie.
Leigh, on your other post I had to look up Warranbool to find out where the place is hiding.
And your RIGHT it’s not on my investment list.
If you keep buying properties in Warranbool you
own the whole joint in a month!!!!
Dear Ronulas, Surely people moving into a town of
three thousand population could afford to buy
their own house.Can’t be too affluent if they can’t borrow $80k for a corrigated iron (tin) shed.Possibly a ‘lean too”,perhaps!!!!.
PeterP, If money didn’t hold me back I would follow the New York system.No one of normal means owns their apartments. So buying(or building)your
own block of units in Sydney would be the way to go.Twenty floors of tenants all paying rent. As
a New Yorker said to me (in the taxi) “this place is so much like N.Y”.Eventually Sydney will be the N.Y. of Aust.The only way I can see me involved in a building like this is to create a
property trust. Run by a board of the trust.
Everyone, who wants, can buys shares from the trust.Don’t list it as there’s too much paper work and regulations.
ToeEdge, the only thing wrong with Campbelltown
(besides the name being too long), is that I didn’t buy acres of the place years ago.Would have
sold on hearing that two thirds of the place was
dedicated to housing commission, and pommies.
Sooshie, thank goodness there’s SOMEONE out there looking after the dead beats. THANKYOU Sooshie.
I’ll do my bit next time I’m in the city, I’ll throw twenty cents into the street beggars tin cup.”Property investing is about people”! Again
Sooshie, I’ve learnt something from you, I always
thought property investing was for making a quid
or a dozen.How wrong I am!!!!
Michael v Kaye, bless your little hearts. Instead
of using the dog I could have used the term “bush
pig”. But I’m to nice for that, and beautiful, and sensitive and likable, I think!!Bruce G.
Have the courage,
to take your own advice.
Dear Ronulas, Surely people moving into a town of
three thousand population could afford to buy
their own house.Can’t be too affluent if they can’t borrow $80k for a corrigated iron (tin) shed.Possibly a ‘lean too”,perhaps!!!!.Hi Bruce,
I did not say that the people living and working in country towns were affluent, just hard working. Not everyone has the education, luck, or whatever it takes to make it into a corporate type job in the big smoke.
These people just fall into thier jobs. Can you tell me that anyone going to school sees them selves digging holes or waitressing for a career or being on the dole? I don’t think so. People are taught in school, to work hard not smart.
The people living in these towns no matter how affulent they are still need a place to live. Most don’t even consider that they might be able to buy a house for themselves. So they just keep doing what they have always done, buy their luxouries now and …..Rent.
The thought of borrowing $80k is still pretty scary for most people. Plus you have to save for a deposit and have a good income. There is large percentage of people who fall into one of these categories.
The same argument you use also applies to Sydney dwellers. Why arn’t the people renting your houses buying their own? Not affluent enough?The difference between your plan and mine Bruce is that we are aiming for a different market. I aim for the market I know. Poor hard working people. They need to live somewhere and any one of them could do what we are doing if they educated themselves and came into contact with the right people eg the people on this forum.
I guess the point I’m making Bruce is that you don’t have to knock people so hard. Don’t be-little the single mum or country lad because of their circumstances. They are working hard enough just to get by.
Thanks
You will always miss 100% of the shots you don’t take!
Leigh, on your other post I had to look up Warranbool to find out where the place is hiding.
And your RIGHT it’s not on my investment list.
If you keep buying properties in Warranbool you
own the whole joint in a month!!!!Show me how to buy a town of 28,500 growing by the minute and I’m all ears [^]
“If you can count your money, you don’t have a billion dollars”
J. Paul Getty
Bruce,
Don’t knock rural people.[
!]
They are the backbone of Australia.Without the wonderful people working on the land, you would not be eating your weetbix for breakfast (or whatever). You would have no fresh vegetables, or meat, or woollen clothes etc.. etc.. Without farmers and rural workers, Australia would not have the great export market that we do. Farmers and people working in rural towns are as intelligent as you and I, well I can speak for myself anyway.
Many rural people live in the country because they want to, NOT have to. We choose to keep away from the narrow minded, city slickers who wouldn’t last a day doing REAL work.
Please stop your uneducated ravings, as we are all too busy to listen to this stuff any more.[
!]Thank you.
WILANDEL
bbruham,
That last post was fantastic.I’ve worked it out.
You have nothing what so ever with property investing have you? You are one of the writers for the Miccalef program on the telly.
I bet you and your fellow comedians are rolling around the floor with in howls of laughter at the thought of all these well meaning people on this forum taking you seriously,right! You had me for a while I must say. Any way keep up the good work, we all need a laugh.
JoffHi Bruce,
Just thought I would drop you a line from one of those Pommies you so thoughtfully brought into this debate. I actually feel very sad for you[
] You have obviously had a very hard childhood and adolescence and feel that you have achieved all you have on your own. Now you feel the need to show people just how far you have made it. You do not seem too bothered as to who is listening as long as someone is.The biggest problem is that although you can dress a man in a suit (although probably not your style) and give them all the money in the world they are still the small minded person they were when but a wee little boy.
Maybe take a long hard look in the mirror one morning and decide if who you are is the best you can be. From the posts you have put out so far it would seem not [
]. But I guess you sleep well, and as long as you are OK then you don’t care about anyone else. It showed when you mentioned non payment on the taxi license, you would just take it back rather than try to work out a win-win deal. Anyway, sleep well, and I again offer you my pity. []Adam
[^][
]
Hey Bruce G
You must have a brother called Paul right?
If not, he maybe your cousin, right?It’s usually Cheers big Ears!!!
But in your case it’s
Cheers big Mouth!!!
Every day we here (hear) stories of record lending for investment properties all over the country.
NSW now lends nearly 50% to investor(‘)s for property. Qld lends 38% again to property investors.If ever there’s a time NOT to buy property, it must be now.I see first home buyers
sinking themselves up to their eye balls in debt.
If you know Sydney and some of these first home
buyers suburbs, Kellyville,Quakers Hill etc try driving around them. Some house lawns are looking a little unkept.Some houses are not keeping up to the rest of the street.This is where I will be looking for some good deals, as the strain becomes too much on paying the mortgage etc.
People buying in Tasmania, the joint is going backwards!! Wait for the first cold winds of credit restrictions to hit the place, and Tassie renters will jump ship. heading for the main land where there’s a better chance of employment.
The same goes for these country towns, most of your tenants are unmarried mothers.Grovelling so you won’t increase the the rent.(They might offer
to cut the increase out).Some of the posts I’ve read tonight are on this theme.Country towns are only where dead beats rent. Unmarried mothers, drugies, unemployed who just won’t work.If they really wanted a job they would be in the cities.
Want a headache? Invest in reginal towns.
Me! I’ll stick to the city, THE ONLY CITY,Sydney.
Bruce G.
With the risk of getting shot down[], ‘Bull Durham’ may have some points here. But, I would say it only applies to buy and hold properties, not Wraps (which don’t rely on capital growth).There will be casualties amongst first (and second, third) home buyers that have over committed. The Quakers Hill, Kellyville areas are hugely overpriced, the land of the Pomms (Campbelltown) is a geographical and infrastructual mirror of the Kellyville area, but, because there has been no (not as much) buyer hysteria, the increases have not been as ridiculous. The Hills area (Kellyville etc) will offer good deals if/when rates rise and sellers flood the market. As Kiyosaki says, buy when everyone else is selling and vice versa.
As for Tassie, can’t comment. Never been there.
Bruce, you got it wrong with the country town tenants. They are not tenants if it’s a wrap, the “druggies, single mums and unemployed” PEOPLE are owners. That makes a big difference.
As for buy and hold in country towns, if it’s positive and you can put up with any dramas, what more could you want.Serious question Bruce. How do you see it panning out after this bubble bursts. How long do you reckon it will be before we can see good capital growth in property again?
Hello my new friends.
Actually ToeEdge was the only one to reply to the post.My answer to your last question is I don’t know!! I thought the “bubble” would have burst by this. I waited three years before buying my last property.Kept waiting and waiting for that blasted bubble to burst,but nothing.I even
put money into shares.Straight after Sept 11th.
bought AGL,United Energy.After Bali, Bought more shares very cheap(love that word).CHEAP.
Hey Ronulas, I’ve done everything you descibe in your post. I’m a tradesman.And very proud of my
skills.After completing my trade I laboured in the
north of West Aussie.Mount Tom Price,on sledge hammers with steel pipe as handles, wooden handles
didn’t last. Working long side Thursday Islanders who wore white overalls buttoned to the throat in temperatures well over one hundred degrees, in the shade.Laying railway track.From there went to Exmouth for about twelve months,rigging,labouring
anything that I could do.
THEN I won the lottery, Twelve months overseas holiday. Included all meals and a new wardrobe as well.The lottery was called CONSCRIPTION and the overseas desination was VIETNAM.I’m sooooo lucky.
This makes me an “old fart” I’m 58 years old.
My wife calls me an angry old man.Barks all the time.Should buy her a mussel
Leigh,twenty-eight thousand persons, I’m impressed! The only trouble with small towns is that if the number one industry closes down the whole town is stuffed. Could you imagine doing a “Ronulas” and investing in so called towns of three thousand!!Never in my dreams would I think about that type of investing. You only need the local bank to pack up and you really are cactus.
Brave boy(I think!!!).
I did look at the Sunshine Coast in February of this year.Renting houses, no problem,but they are trying for Sydney prices.
One fellow I know now lives there at Maroochydore
and can only get casual work.Looking in the real estate windows there’s a whole window of “Buy yourselves a job”.Mowing lawns, window cleaning etc.
Susie_ Langmaid, Gee you know how to hurt a very sensitive guy!!The SHEILA I did the DEED with was a Susie!!!!
Sooshie your tenant, the unmarried mother of soon to be nine snotty noses. Do all of Australia a big favour, buy her a television set. Best contraception that I know of!!!
I’ve had two days off and this was fun.Tomorrow,
back to work.Seven days a week, Who said city boys don’t know how to work.Working seven days is the only way to keep the “old girl” from divorcing me.It’s not the divorce that upsets me, it’s the property settlement!!!Bruce G.
Have the courage to take,
your own advice.
Winners make it happen.
Loses let it happen.Ok…
Enough of the sensational name calling generalisations (from all parties).
At one point it was interesting to see where this thread was going to go… but now we are not adding to the education of others, just point scoring.
Please only reply to this thread if you have constructive and meaningful contributions. Some of the points made here are insulting, so please be respectful of others.
Bye,
Steve McKnight
~Wearing his moderator hat~**********
Remember that success comes from doing things differently.
**********Steve McKnight | PropertyInvesting.com Pty Ltd | CEO
https://www.propertyinvesting.comSuccess comes from doing things differently
Hi
I 100% agree with Bruce on one thing… About the herd mentality that is going around at present.
My ‘perception’ is that many are currently in a buying frenzy (buying willy nilly), ie a ‘smash, grab and think later’ mentality. On a mission to acquire the ‘elusive’ regional town cash flow positive property.
There really has to be some thought of an exit strategy and a contingency plan for the worst case scenario.
I do believe in buying where-ever the numbers make sense but this must also be counter-balanced by sensible economic data.
For example,does it make sense to buy in regional towns that one has little or no knowledge about, that has downwards trending population growth, high unemployment and not a major industry or employer in sight?
Having a growth strategy (which Bruce is alluding to) working in conjunction with a cashflow strategy seems to me to be the best of both worlds.
P.S. You should all know the fate of lemmings…. Think about it
Just my 2 cents
Cheers
David U
Hi david U
i agree that sensible investing must have an “exit strategy and a contingency plan for the worst case scenario”. i really don’t like buying in this market, in fact i’m selling half my properties (selling 10)and will reinvest in another market as we have discussed in another thread. My stategy is buy and hold for ever, but when prices double in 15 months and i can get better returns elsewhere best to sell, rather than refinance and reduce a little bit of risk i think.
westanhello all,
>My wife calls me an angry old man.Barks all the time.Should >buy her a mussel
just one? you need a dozen each, and make ’em smoked mussels….yum….or oysters….yummmmmmm> The only trouble with small towns is that if the number one >industry closes down the whole town is stuffed.
that is, if it has a number one industry. a lot of them used to have, but now they’ve settled into small to medium businesses and are quite stable. In fact some of them have really good rental demand and you can always find tenants at the bottom of the market – i.e. welfare even? Good tenants are found in all socio-economic levels, and at least welfare people have a guaranteed income.>Could you imagine doing a “Ronulas” and investing in so >called towns of three thousand!!
i fully could and have done, it is a great house rented within three weeks to long term tenants (sharemilkers) and has a stupendous return in the 20’s after costs.
>Never in my dreams would I >think about that type of >investing.I am extremely glad actually (and the fact that most of the world would agree with you. which includes a lot of my family.) Cause that means there were still baby deals available that i could afford, where most people *weren’t* looking. of course as there are not as many properties for sale in the small towns as there are in the cities of 5 million, if everyone was into buying in the little places there wouldn’t have been the cheap deals waiting for me that i found -.
As far as the risk goes say 250K buys you one city IP, the same amount buys you several regionals, and even taking the extra maintenance, insurance, vacancy rates, bla blah into consideration, your risk is spread more.>On a mission to acquire the ‘elusive’ regional town cash flow >positive property.
*guilty*!!!>There really has to be some thought of an exit strategy and a >contingency plan for the worst case scenario.
exit? as in, sell? But why? If it’s vacant? Just drop the rent….
the returns have more slack in them in regional towns.>I do believe in buying where-ever the numbers make sense >but this must also be counter-balanced by sensible economic >data.
>For example,does it make sense to buy in regional towns that >one has little or no knowledge about,*tut tut, didn’t do your due diligence* no not a good idea! Find out what you need to know and then some!
> that has downwards trending population growth,
Hmmm….Tasmania had that for 12 years. Dolf de roos has been warning people away from it (ditto Invercargill) for ever. However.,,,,it’s growing like mad these days (what was it, 1 percent in three months???) , prices are going nuts, and suddenly it’s turned. what changed? perhaps people suddenly thought ‘hell, i don’t care if people are leaving there, look at this fabulous property we can buy there for so little, let’s do it’ and enough people thought that and made it change.>high unemployment and not a major industry or employer in >sight?
Hmmm….most towns exist for some reason, either to service a farming region, or whatever. The towns that were built JUST for one reason i.e. Ohakea Air Force Base in NZ are not what i would call towns, however.>Having a growth strategy (which Bruce is alluding to) >working in conjunction with a cashflow strategy seems to me >to be the best of both worlds.
yes indeed, and this has been my insight of the month.
The words ‘balanced portfolio’ spring to mind.>You should all know the fate of lemmings…. Think about it
I did think about it…and i think that a lot of the lemmings would rather be in the same boat with their friends than do the opposite…’well if I’m wrong at least we’ll all be wrong’ –
as I’ve said before, it takes a lot more courage, knowledge, guts, self-belief etc etc etc etc etc to go out on a limb, even if that only means have a different opinion to the masses.I live with a 12 year old, and he loves to disagree with me, and i am trying to train him up so that it’s perfectly fine to disagree, if you are sure about why….’convince me’, I say to him….
cheers-
MiniBack again,
Yes Minimogal I did notice my spelling error after it was posted. zzzzzzzzzz there’s a few extra for you.
Mini your post, I read with interest,you say that you’ve invested in towns of three thousand populations yourself.Amazing! When I was smashing the keys in my crap post last night, listening to Sydney radio station(2GB)they interviewed a taxi driver from Broken Hill. He mentioned that houses
are selling for $10k each. They’re renting for $80 per week.41.6% return! Here’s your chance to
really be a Minimogal.Buy,buy, buy.
Mini, if you play with property on the net,most country towns property prices are going through the roof.Rent yields are coming down fast. So your little secret is out and about.Now every body knows buy, buy buy, anywhere just buy.
But not for me,You and Ronulas are braver than me.
David U, first time I read any posts on this website your post really impressed me. Like
S.Mc K. postings on another website years ago.
In response to this posting,top marks again, the smash and grab virus has everyone in it’s grip.
When I’m on my way home, you see shop fronts
signs displaying “your wealth partner” and shop fronts “investor finance avaliable-no money required.We will cross all the “T”s and dot the Is” There’s five of these type places from Dee Why to Collaroy.All in a three mile radius.On top of all these places, are the banks.No banks closed
on the Northern Beaches, actually increased.
On T.V. in the current affair shows we see, every night how to do something with property investments.How to sellect,renovate etc.
I waited three years until I bought my last house. Waiting for the bubble to burst. Still hasn’t.
G’day S.Mc K. I did spend some of my tightly held money on your tape,Fasttrack, I play it in the taxi when I’m bored.I’ve listened to it three times,You and your mate come over very well. In the beginning I thought you and your mate were really “mates”. Not so as the tape later proved.
There is no way in hell I’ll be buying a property in thirty days though. I’ll be waiting for those interest to start climbing.Can’t stay down for ever.
Bruce G.hi bb,
>zzzzzzzzzz there’s a few extra for you.
thanks. I need a sleep in.>Mini your post, I read with interest,you say that you’ve >invested in towns of three thousand populations >yourself.
thanks….actually one of them is only 1500 but i didn’t want to shock you. However it is in NZ and the difference there is that
the next town is not so remote as they can be here. i.e. broken hill.>Amazing!
thanks!!>When I was smashing the keys in my crap post last night,
it wasn’t that bad, I mean, we are having quite a good back and forth really, aren’t we?
Anyway, if you ever write something you want to change after (like the spelling of ‘muzzle’ for instance, hehe, just use the ‘edit’ button to the left of your post, which only the writer of that post gets.
>listening to Sydney radio station(2GB)
god love ’em
>they interviewed a taxi driver from Broken Hill. He mentioned >that houses
>are selling for $10k each.
just a sec be right back *books fare*
>They’re renting for $80 per week.41.6% return!
No way, i thought I was smart with getting in the high twenties and one in the thirties, man, now I feel like a real loser
and to think that it was under my nose the whole time. sheesh.
>Here’s your chance to
>really be a Minimogal.
oath.
>Buy,buy, buy.
I’ll do my best bb>Mini, if you play with property on the net,most country towns >property prices are going through the roof.Rent yields are >coming down fast.
Hmmm…..how much yield would you actually need for 10K to be cashflow positive? I reckon about 10 percent….makes about 20 bucks a week…..you reckon it’s rented for 80, this ten k place, well even if that’s only a hypothetical place, there’s a lot of discounting between 80 bucks and 20, and you are still not losing. meanwhile, you are making with the capital gain, you say….>So your little secret is out and about.Now every body knows
It’s never been a secret, from me anyway, – gee, I know so many people that although they couldn’t afford to buy where they live, they could probably scape the means together to buy a 10 k property. Then at least they would feel all proud they got started in the market. I mean even ‘rich dad’ Rk talks about in rich dad poor dad started out as a ‘slum lord’ (not that I’m saying BH is a slum. ) It’s just an entry level investment that isn’t too scary if it all goes wrong (how wrong can a 10k house go? only ten k wrong…and even then the land still has value….) I’m only just starting out at the bottom of the market and i feel a bit like if I can get into property (as in, a freelance musician) then anyone can.>from thebuy, buy buy, anywhere just buy.
I have always been like that anyway, hey, I’m a chick. it used to go on going out, or clothes, shoes, whatever. at least if I’m buy buy I am putting it into something that exists and has a use, helping someone out that needs to sell, and it will hopefully even go up in value over the long term. anyway, as the earner of my own money i reserve the right to do with it as i please without having to answer to anyone, other than voluntarily…like i am now….>But not for me,You and Ronulas are braver than me.
I’ve been trying to get a loved one into this….so far he’s sticking with a term deposit, which gets him 5 percent.
that’s fine, but I am not ‘brave’ enough to convert my hard earned cash into a ledger entry somewhere. what say more than 1.5 percent of people want to get their money out of the bank at once, like if some thing happens that causes a panic?
The banks operate on such a low fractional reserve that they literally wouldn’t have the money. So to me, a ledger entry in a bank operating on 1.5 percent fractional reserve that pays me 5 percent and then I get taxed on the profit is more of a risk than investing in bricks and sticks and people (AKA houses and tenants) in a country where there is no CGT….and that’s an option that I am not trying to keep a secret by any stretch of the imagination – and neither are Steve and Dave, without whose excellent tuition i would not be here!!!!
>I’ll be waiting for those interest to start climbing.Can’t stay >down for ever.
re that point, some guru of property investing told me at a seminar – or on a tape I have, I forget who – that if interest rates are anything below 6.5 percent, fix them as long as you can, preferably 10 or 15 years if you can get it. apparently that’s the 20 year average, so if they do go up, you’re OK.
And if they do go down maybe you can refinance elsewhere. (is that how it works???)
The trick to this is that it’s just a game, really, with different strategies you can use to ‘win’ or hopefully, ‘win-win’.
byee for now
MiniPS i like debates
I can’t believe that all this excitement has been going on while I’ve been away(in a hick town of 68,000) buying houses.
While it is true that there is a stampede of investors driving up prices in rural towns, just because its the current investing fad, thus lowering % returns. There are still worthwhile purchases out there I found 4 over the 3 days I’ve been away, 1, at 10.4%. 1, with the potential for approx 14.5% and two side by side at about 8% but with exelent potential to develope later on. all in a city that is showing over 5% population growth and stupid levels of CGs.
I can’t afford a start in Sydney so why would I even worry myself with thoughs of investing there.
If I want to neg gear I could also buy near new properties in the same city that will see excelent growth and attract good tennants!
The way I see it I’ve got it made, good returns, good old country service, good growth, and tennants who have higher than city, levels of etihcs in general.
Maybe I’m delusional who knows?[:0)]Seeya,
Scott S“Aim for the stars and you’ll shoot the top of the telegraph pole. Aim for the top of the telegraph pole and you’ll shoot yourself in the foot!”
-anon
] Don’t hold back now…..
!]
]
], ‘Bull Durham’ may have some points here. But, I would say it only applies to buy and hold properties, not Wraps (which don’t rely on capital growth).
The topic ‘Run, It’s A Herd stampede !!’ is closed to new replies.
