Hi All,
Apologies for the long post, but read on if you are interested in an overview of Trusts according to Perpetual Trustees. It all would have been gobbledigook [?] (never seen that word written before!!) if I had not read Wealthmagic beforehand by the way!!!
I attended a free Seminar Held by Perpetual Trustees…(flagged by Terryw… thanks Terry). Here is a summary (from notes that I took).Remember, these seminars are held to promote the services of the organisation, however,there was little pressure to “sign up”, so that was good. How trusts work
They are a place to hold assets
Income is distributed from them
Investments stay in the trust until they are gifted or trust is closed
Typical Structure
Appointer and Trustee (individual or corporate) {Limited liability benefit mentioned}
Mum, dad and child 1 and child 2
They draw a definite line between personal assets and business assets
Protects you and your business from things like
Bankruptcy
Legal Action
Ex spouse of a child
Caution – protection is not “grandfathered” (have no idea what that means, even after asking for clarification – so if anyone wants to help out on this, that would be good) Other Wealth protection vehicles
Superannuation
Place in spouse’s name
Testimentary Trust (only comes into being after death…for the control freaks amongst us[:0)])
Tax Advantages
Income splitting amongst beneficiaries
Maximising concessionally taxed income (streaming)
o Franked dividends
o Depreciation
(If someone could explain how this one is different to income splitting, I’d appreciate it)
Minimising CGT
o Distribute capital gain to low income earners
Changing circumstances
o Allocation of income not fixed
o Maximise tax efficiencies
(This advantage of changing circumstances I take to mean the benefit of easily being able to change the way beneficiaries are gifted based on changing tax positions…or just if you don’t like them anymore!!!) Cautions
Transferring own home to trust – stamp duty, land tax, crystallising CGT on transfer
Distributing to Minors amounts above allowable gift amount (approx $600) attracts tax of something like 66cents in the dollar up to $14K and then it drops to 47c (called punitive tax)
Testimentary Trust
Incorporated in will
Spreads assets amongst beneficiaries
At Trustees discretion
Children not subject to punitive tax
Example: a very wealthy couple have a child with a drug problem and if they bequeathed a percentage of their estate equally to their children, the drug addicted child would more than likely squander all of their portion…at once. This way they are able to manage distribution of income to that child in a steady way. Financial Planning
Diversify across all asset classes (property, shares, what are the other 2, I did not right them down!!) This will give you a more consistently reliable return
Shares were also discussed briefly and I won’t include unless asked, although I can’t resist the following stat. Optimum number of shares to own is between 11-15. Family Trust User Criteria
Need for asset protection
Family members with little or no other income
High level of non-super investment income
Little or no CGT on entry (not sure I understand this one)
Immediate and future estate planning considerations
That’s all. Hope its of interest/assistance to others.
Ish
Very interesting Ishita, thank you for the summary.
I can fill in a couple of the gaps you mentioned:
Protection is not grandfathered means if someone is suing you, you cannot simply set up a trust and ‘protect’ your assets. I think. []
Streaming (to maximise concessionally taxed income) is the same as income splitting, but relates more to the tax status of different kinds of income. eg. if some of the income generated within the trust is interest from a bank account within the trust, there is no tax advantage. But if some other income is generated within the trust from share investments, it could have franking credits. Not only can you split the income between the benefeciaries, you can choose who will receive the specific income with the franking credits in this case (or depreciation in the form of property income).
Financial planning – 4 asset classes are Cash (like bank accounts, term deposits), Fixed Interest (bonds, corporate or government type investments), Shares, Property.
Last but not least, in order to move your assets into a new family trust it will trigger a capital gains tax event (as the trust is the new owner, you effectively sell your property to the trust). This can cost you in terms of stamp duty, and if you have owned the asset you want to add in to the trust for a while and there is a large capital gain – it could mean a lot of tax! This is often the case with property, the only opportunity at the moment for some people is if they are sitting on shares with a loss – these could be transferred into a trust with no CGT.
Caution – protection is not “grandfathered” (have no idea what that means, even after asking for clarification – so if anyone wants to help out on this, that would be good)
I am going to have a stab at this one; I think (but do not know for fact, that this means while the trust is protected from ex spouses of children, the childrens own assets are not protected from the ex spouse.
Having typed that now I don’t know how close I am, maybe someone else wants to have a go.
What was in it for Purpetual trustees? Do they set up trusts and what do they charge?
And did htey mention Hybrid Trusts?
I think Grandfathering means it won’t be retrospective. ie won’t apply for assets already owned. eg if you currently own a house and then sell it to a trust just before you go bankrupt, the courts can undo that transaction.
They mentioned the name Hybrid Trusts, but there were no slides on them at all, so can’t say anything further on that. One thing I noticed was that they did not allow questions. When a guy asked a question, he was basically asked to ask it of the consultant at the end, as the question pertained specifically to his situation. When the guy said that he believed the question to be quite general and that others would probably like to know the answer, they basically still avoided answering it.
The question was a good one, so I’ll ask it here.
If a loss is incurred by an asset in a trust, can you distribute the loss to highest taxed beneficiary so that they can claim the loss?
They certainly did not discuss their fee structure, but one of consultants said that if you were interested in their help, the guideline was that you needed to have approx $500K of assets to place in the trust and about $5000 available for admin fee per year.
At the end there was a questionnaire asking for feedback and asking permssion to contact you and some glossy brochures to take home of course!!!
I think I can answer that question. Discretionary Trusts cannot distribute losses. Losses must be quarrantined in the trust until the Trust makes a profit. I am not sure about unit trusts?
A hybrid Trust can partially get around this as the unit holder borrows money to buy the units, and so is able to claim the interest on this loan against of non trust income. (I think).
I also attended the Family Trusts seminar by Perpetual Trustees. To me, it was fairly basic knowledge as I have done further reading on the subject. They do not set up trusts (you probably have to see a lawyer for that) – they only act as trustee for the trust once it is set up, hence collect the fee for administering the trust for compliance with various regulatory bodies and providing advice on asset allocation etc
“Last but not least, in order to move your assets into a new family trust it will trigger a capital gains tax event (as the trust is the new owner, you effectively sell your property to the trust). This can cost you in terms of stamp duty, and if you have owned the asset you want to add in to the trust for a while and there is a large capital gain – it could mean a lot of tax!”
Can you sell your property to your trust at under market value ? or even so you make a capital loss ? what capital gains tax implications could that have ?
I ‘m told stamp duty is based on fair market price.
Thank you Ish.ita
that was a great summary. It does point out that I need to do a lot more research about trusts. But have a better understanding now.
Lynne