Hello again [
],I read Steve’s latest newsletter and I couldn’t agree more with his warnings regarding ‘free’ seminars.
A Little Story with a BIG bite PART 1
BACKGROUND INFO:
Having been told by my x-accountant that “..We should be happy paying that much tax…”, when like a lot of people, we were just living day by day, with an ever growing credit card debt just to survive, I saw RED [!]! I did a little Rumplestiltskin dance outside the accountant’s door and said to my hubby “That’s it, were not going back to him again, he’s a tax collector [}]” Don’t get me wrong my hubby and I have no problem paying taxes and the accountant was truly a lovely guy (we still call him a friend []) but almost half of hubby’s paycheck was eaten by tax! Not happy Jaan!
This emotive reaction left both myself and my husband open to all kinds of SHARKS in the Sea of Investments. Ignorant and uneducated, naive, green etc, we (hubby and I) attended a ‘free’ seminar, glorifying negative gearing for those with high taxable income. After sitting through an hour long lecture ( I was kicked out of it mid way, because our baby was crying) We were ushered into a board room with tea and sandwiches and pounced upon by a ‘financial advisor’. I asked what his qualifications were, “Have some more tea and sandwiches, you must be tired with that little one” []
Soon enough, hubby had signed for a $200 consultation
If they could show us how to cut our mortage down and pay it off in less time using negative gearing.
To cut a long story short, I was able to get our money back, using their own guarentee to stuff down their throats when they couldn’t deliver the goods they promised (they had added 2 years to our mortage term!!!). I had to wait 3 months and work very hard at with many emails and phone calls. LESSON 1 was learnt! Don’t sign your money away in the heat of any emotion.Part 2 next time when I have another spare minute.
Got to go and watch Star Trek
Cheers [
]Sooshie ( “live long and prosper” Star Trek – Spock )
p.s. If anyone can contribute their stories, it would be great to learn from you aswell.
It’s all our imperfections that make us perfect!
Edited by – [email protected] on 17/09/2002 10:27:13 PM
Hi there!
I’d like to find out about other people’s experiences. Did anyone watch ACA on Monday 23rd Sep, regarding the woman who bought off the plan up at the Gold Coast? Check it out at http://www.ninemsn.com.au and click on the ACA link. Caveat emptor!
Cheers
Sooshie
It’s all our imperfections that make us perfect!
Edited by – [email protected] on 24/09/2002 11:10:33 AM
Hi Sooshie
I had trouble finding the story. Would you mind posting the precise link ?
Bruce
Hi Bruce,
Here is one link to another piece done on property scams
http://aca.ninemsn.com.au/stories/982.asp
Here’s some other direct links for avoiding property misfortunes:
http://aca.ninemsn.com.au/factsheets/983.asp
http://aca.ninemsn.com.au/stories/1003.asp
All links courtesy of ninemsn.com.au
Bruce, I’m really sorry but they haven’t posted the story and I’m not sure why. [
]I’ll see what I can do to fix this, no promises though!
Regards
Soosh
It’s all our imperfections that make us perfect!
Hi again,
Bruce, I rang Brisbane office for you with regards to the story, they said that they don’t have chat transcripts for every story at their home site. If you want to call them to get all the info here’s their phone number
Brisbane:
G.P.O. Box 72
Brisbane QLD 4001
Ph: (07) 3214 9890I can’t tell you the name of the builder here, but if you want to know more let me know. Basically she put down a 85K deposit on a off the plan unit on the Gold Coast and the builders didn’t tell her that her view would be obstructed by a fire wall they were building.
Cheers
Soosh [
]It’s all our imperfections that make us perfect!
Sooshie
Ta for info and time you spent to follow up.
What a scam !!! (makes me angry when I hear stuff like this [
!])Bruce
Well, she and her son were told that there would be something there but very unobtrusive and misleading sales spiel, certainly not the huge and ugly structure that did go up and obstructed their view, which they had paid lots of money for.
As I understand and under lots of pressure on air, their deposit was to be returned. Just one more example how we get placed under considerable sales pressure and how dishonest sales people can be, if only to secure their commission.
reginaAnd that’s why a fool and her money are soon parted.
Perhaps its sad… perhaps it’s the way of the investing jungle.
Hopefully she won’t make the same mistake twice.
Steam_Train
Hi again [
]I finally got one into bed and the other out with de hubby. I promised a second installation of our costly education.. So here goes. I wish I would have learned about Steve earlier but better late then never [
] !<font color=blue> PART 2: Sharks </font id=blue> (This is a long one)
Firstly, I am fascinated by sharks (the aquatic variety) and have scuba dived with them peacefully (they were well fed [
]), but the human shark variety gets me angry and I wish I never had to swim with them. They are a more deadly variety and often take much more than the shirt off your back! Or they try very hard too!After <font color=orange>PART 1 </font id=orange>fiasco, Hubby decided to go to another seminar. This time there were no freebies, except that someone would come to our home, free of charge to assess our situation for investing. Hubby told me what time he was coming and I had tea, coffee and biscuits prepared.
The ‘Salesman’ did his ‘shpeill’ and said that we had a huge investing capacity and that he had the properties for us to negative gear and one was positive cash flow but negatively geared. To get on his company books would cost $100. <font color=teal> Alarm bells !!!</font id=teal> Hubby said okay and signed up $100 non-refundable (Now I will just say, hubby is no fool, just very gullable).
We spent the day, first in the office with a ‘financial advisor’ who came up with a borrowing figure. Then we went to see some townhouse in Dandenong, Cranbourne and Clayton. At the Dandenong property we had 3 to choose from. One of them had a agents board layed out in the front garden (keep this in mind).
Cranbourne had a huge power line above it and the grounds were so muddy my shoes were ruined [], we couldn’t get in, because the keys wouldn’t open the door. I was not interested. Finally at Clayton, there was a hole in the ground where the prospective property would be. This 1 bedroom flat, came with a rental guarentee for 1 year. It was an off-the-plan project.After this inspection, the salesman noted how observent we were and said that not many people would look so close as to the sloping of floors, wasted spaces etc. He took us to the developers office and showed us the colour scheme of the unit.
Then he got his ‘financial’ advisor (not the first one, who had QUIT in not so pleasant terms from her employer) who was an obsequious, condecending piece of baggage, who annoyed the living daylights out of me. We chose the property we liked and he was to go to the banks and find a loan for us. One of the other property was a QLD property, a serviced apartment, which pooled the rent if you wanted a guarenteed income.
In the beginning the salesman had told us that the financial advisor, the salesman (himself) the insurance person and conveyancing solicitor were all <font color=purple>SEPARATE</font id=purple> entities but under the same umbrella company.
The salesman mentioned that there was a fight between the Syd and Melb office with regards to selling the 1 QLD unit and that if we wanted it we had to rush to sign the contract (without the advice of our lawyer- we wanted our own lawyer to peruse the contract). Thank the stars I put in clauses to protect our interests, because we did sign the contract and got the ‘financial advisor’ to look for a loan -funnily (?)he used the bank that this company does all its finance with…surprise surprise! When we signed the documentation we noticed a clause stating that not only would he receive 0.6% commission with a trailing commission of 0.1% for the term of the loan, but also a bonus 1% commission on settlement. We refused to sign that and crossed it out. I looked at the salesman and said, “we don’t have to sign that I hope” and he said that he didn’t bother telling us about it, because none of his clients have to pay it, they just waver that fee (I BET THEY DID!!!)
During the week, I had second thoughts. My misgivings nagged at me until I drove hubby, who was happy to just leave the status quo, crazy. I told hubby that something was wrong. I rang up the real estate agent who had the sign in the property that was supposed to be listed exclusively with the salesman’s company and found that they had sold one unit 50K less than what the salesman quoted us (fixed price). I confronted the salesman who was spitting nails (not with us though, he thanked me for ferreting out that the real estate agent had broken the contract with the company).
When I was told that the QLD unit was in a beautiful area, but would have little capital growth and that most banks wouldn’t touch a serviced apartment with a tenfoot pole! We gave our lawyer the power to pull us out if he wasn’t happy with the terms and conditions of the contract (a condition I included on the contract – remember this!!!)Phew!
Now the unit in Clayton, I decided also to pull out, when people in the real estate industry told us that the price was okay, but we had also prepaid the rental agreement. Most said that if you had to have a rental agreement – stay away from it. This made sense to us. We told our lawyer to pull us out as the contract hadn’t been signed by the other party.
I rang up the ‘financial advisor’ and told them not to worry about the loan documentation because we wanted to speak to an accountant before purchasing properties. He was NOT happy and said “I’ve already done all the work, you can’t pull out now. I’ll talk to __ (the salesman) and get him to come and discuss the situation with you”. I had made up my mind, but I said okay. The financial advisor said ” He’ll come over and you make nice tea and coffee and eat the lovely biscuits…” Uccchhhhhh! I hate being treated like a 2 year old.[
!]The salesman came over and said <font color=blue>”My boss told me I shouldn’t tell you this, but you know your lawyer in QLD, well he has a conflict of interest and you should get another lawyer” </font id=blue>
I said <font color=green>”Why”</font id=green>
He said <font color=blue>”Well I’m not supposed to tell you, but his partner’s wife used to work for our boss and they had a falling out and she left and brought a lawsuit against my boss, but she lost the case”</font id=blue>
I said <font color=green>”Really, oh dear! Perhaps we’ve been hasty and made a mistake choosing him” </font id=green> Would you believe, that I think he actually bought that response!!! Of course I was being sarcastic!
He then said <font color=blue> “It wouldn’t surprise me if he wanted that unit, it’s so popular!”</font id=blue>
I almost choked on the rediculousness of it. <font color=teal>Our lawyer, on the Gold Coast, doing conveincing for us in Brisbane, wanting a property he didn’t even know of, and of all the Lawyers in QLD, it’s HIS partner’s wife who worked for this salesman’s boss…!!!!</font id=teal>I don’t think so! Now I hate liars! But this, well this was a Whopper with all the extras. He was begging for a [], luckily I’m not and neither is my hubby violent.Then he said to us <font color=blue>”I’m the only one who can get you out of the contract, so I will do so for the one in QLD – because we have another buyer, but the one in Clayton, I will not let you out of. I’m the only one who can, and I won’t let you do it”.</font id=blue>
My hubby looked at me, then looked at the salesman and said <font color=purple>”–, we got confirmation yesterday that both contracts had been recinded successfully </font id=purple>. The salesman, looked like an idiot and he left our house never to be heard from again.
I rang up the lawyer and asked him about his partner’s wife and he said that she was a tennis instructor and had been for 30 years! He also laughed when I asked him if he wanted the QLD unit. He said, in all his 25 years in conveincing he’d never heard a whopper like that before.
Hubby and I had a good laugh, but to this day (4 months later) we still can’t believe the nerve, the gall and the lack of integrity this salesman had. As I said to hubby, never trust a man who doesn’t own an animal, plant, furniture or car. He’s too shifty by far!
It cost us about 1k to get out of all the legal entanglements but we put it down to a costly education. After this, we did proper research, got ourselves an accountant in the know and did our due diligence.
Sorry it was so long winded but I hope it can teach you a lesson. I really hope it can help someone avoid the mistakes we’ve made. Apart from financial cost, the emotional and mental stress involved was enourmous. Investing is not for the weak hearted. Steve’s newsletter is so true, read it again and again! Be carefull always! And please ignore the spelling mistakes [
]Cheers
Sooshie [
]p.s. I keep finding spelling mistakes, so I will try to edit them out
p.p.s. I can’t disclose the name of the salesman or company etc for legal reasons etc… but you can always email me for any extra info.
<font color=purple><i>It’s all our imperfections that make us perfect! </i></font id=purple>
wow, this is a pretty amazing story, the sharks are in a feeding frenzy.
I tend to avoid seminars like the plaque these days, having been to some doosies(right spelling?).
The exeption is of course, Steve’s recent seminar.
I have attended Peter Spann, which has given me some learning, but every seminar has something to sell. They want to hold on to you as a customer, in order to continue to run their business, which I suppose is fine, if the product is ok.
I have decided my hard earned money will now be used very selectively, as you can easily be out of pocket by thousands.
I would suggest, avoid the likes of the great HK, the greater the hype, the more suspicious the motive.
My biggest blunder would have been Allan Edwards over 2 days
(about 2 years ago), which was so incredibly false and misleading, you wonder how he was even allowed to run this thing. Unfortunately it ended up costing many people more than the seminar fee, in that they were actually taken in by a trickster and their money ended up going o/seas,never to be seen again. Unfortunately, you do not need a license or sense of ethics to run an “investment” seminar, its like the old fashioned spruiker of miracle cures.
One girlfriend, went to QLD one weekend and brought five properties in the time. I asked her who she went through and she told me one very helpful investment adviser, who took them around for free and was able to kindly organise everything. She didn’t have to worry about anything.
Well, what can you say? I don’t think she has ever heard of 2 tier marketing. I decided it was not up to me to say anything else.
I would also suggest, avoid serviced “anything”, like the plaque, unless you have passed it by an INDEPENDENT COMMERCIAL SOLICITOR, costs a bit but worth it one thousand times. Also, check the financials very very closely, it is not commercial or worth while if you end up at the bottom of the payment pile and still have to pay body corp, rates, mortgage etc.and your assett is steadily DEPRECIATING. The banks know what is happening and why they are not lending readily against this sort of product.
I and 100 other owners have basically lost 100,000 each with the above, also remember the vagaries of the tourism industry.
It is also very difficult to obtain finance against and resale, if at all possible, tends to be at a heavy loss.
Especially in QLD, the odds against this sort of investment are staked 100% against you. I am sure there are thousands of investors caught up and loosing heavily.
Remember that body corp fees and insurance premiums are escalating and will probably wipe any sort of profit.
Avoid like the plaque anything to do with tourism, overheads and low returns make this a guarantee for constant losses, and you cannot even sell, as you would with a bad share, you are stuck with it.
we are now trying to reinvent our resort into a ret. village, with a remote chance of rescuing some capital.
My learning curve with any sort of investing have been very steep and lots of losses along the way, in the last 7 years, it’s only now, we both feel, we have turned the financial corner, we have learnt and losses are part of the learning curve of investing. The main thing is to learn and not give up. There is no way around doing your own research, learning and talking to like minded people and find your own good legal advisers, accountants or property managers etc.
No one will ultimately hand you anything for free, you have to do your own homework. Try and stick to something that you have direct control over, this would usually exclude “managed” things, since the “managed” bit usually first up goes into the managers pocket.
There you are, some of my experiences.
best wishes
ReginaHi Regina,
Thank you for your reply and I’m really sorry to read that you lost so much money doing something we nearly did. I’m also happy we posted these stories to help others, especially newbies to this site who are just starting on their road to investing.
I remember Steve’s rule about finding out where abouts on the ‘food chain’ you are. Your right, after doing our homework, we saw that we wouldn’t be that cash positive once the management fees and a cleaning fee ($35 per day!!! usually only for 1/2 hour) etc was taken out of the equation. I wish my hubby let me get a cleaner every day I’d probably end up inventing new things to ask her/him to do. []
The banks also need to tighten up I guess, because the market glut is drawing to a close and the money is going to be needed elsewhere, so they can’t afford to be so ‘giving’ {sic}
I hope your future endevours are more fruitfulCheers
Sooshie [
]It’s all our imperfections that make us perfect!
Thanks for sharing your “education” with us. (BTW, this is my 1st post) [:-]
I just wanta pass on my experience, but I went a sightly different way compared to yours. I had read the book by Sean O’Reilly (Anyone can be a Millionaire) and then read Jan Somers books. Sean O”Reilly indicated in his book (among other things) to go and see a “financial planner” (FP). OK, so off I went, two visits later the FP tells me that he was concerned that I was reading Jan Somer’s “OLD” books. The FP did not steer me (and wife) to the area of investing in IP which was what I was looking for (advice re IP etc). As it turned out, $400 later, I rec’d a financial plan from him and no details about any IP other then to sign up with some sort of on-going management trust and the fact that he will get commissions from the investment etc. Someone later quoted to me that I was helping him with his retirement plans and not mine. True. So $400 spend to find out that FP have no interest in IP as they do not earn an income from them.
Danny D.[
]Hi Danny,
Yes, I have done that to.
I believe there is no such thing as a “finacial planner”.
It’s a complete misnmer. They do not look at the big picture but only further their own interests: “managed fund”, commission, property, unless its in a managed fund, obviously offers them no commission.
The only time I will probably see a planner, is at retirement, to sort out super/pensions.
Educate yourself in every possible way and have complete control over your money.
ReginaHi there,
Congrats on your first posting! [
]Okay you asked for it… [
] !Part 3: Financial planners strike again!
When I started getting negative vibes about the
property in QLD (serviced apartment), I spoke
to hubby and said that if we were spending soooo
much money on this IP, I want to run it passed a
financial planner.
I rang up the financial service
Victoria and they gave me 5 names of financial planners
in the area. As I was in a rush (the contract was
going to be finalised and signed next day by vendor),
I rang all and the first one who could see me (and come
to my home) would get our business. The first consult
was free. He went on about other things, managed funds,
managed funds…and did I forget to mention…….
managed funds…SURPRISE SURPRISE…he gets commission
from managed funds! He said he’d go and write up what we
talked about. The next thing we received is a written list
of what we discussed with him and a bill for services.
What!!! It was supposed to be a free consult.
If we wanted a detailed report it would be an extra $185 per
hour and $650 for report and plan. [] Yeah right!The one thing he did in our favour – and mind you was probably
worth $185 was to tell us to get out of the contract for the
QLD serviced apartment IP. [^] I guess I’d known this but just
wanted the extra reassurance as my hubby thought I was mad and
just causing trouble (“upsetting the bandwagon…”), that’s why I
got the planner out (oh what lengths us wives will do
to get our way!!! []) Hubby knows it’s going to cost us money
when I get nervous about something.Then my next door neighbours husbands sister-in-law is a
financial ‘advisor’ so we went to see her (mind you this is all
before I did my research on Steve). She suggested an accountant
(as did another salesman btw…hmmm) and some IP’s through
developers she can introduce us to (which we went to see). At settlement she recieves $1500 commission on any property, but her
fee for financial service is under $50 per/hr. She is btw a
very nice lady. Excentric like me [] !We went to see some properties, the salesman told me his life story and in the end he said “how can you buy a property of me? You know my life story, you even gave me advice!”, I said, “Don’t be embarassed, as a nurse and midwife confidentiallity is assured, and I wasn’t going to buy a property from you anyway because it’s not what I want, but you did a good job anyway, by showing the human face of realty”.
Another financial planner wanted to charge us $4300. Gasp, splutter…
are they for real?So to all of you out there who are reading Jan Somers, John Burley,
Margaret Lomas etc etc… It’s fine to do your research. Self
education is a good thing! Financial advisors, planners, assesors etc
are good for lining their own pockets, there are exceptions to the rule, however. So you see I had quite a few run ins with Financial
planners and I have benefitted from some of their advice, so your not
alone…Cheers
A very sleepy Sooshie [|)]
It’s all our imperfections that make us perfect!
Sooshie & Regina
WOW, you folks have some amazing stories. Thankyou both so much for sharing them with all of us !
I am really at a loss as to what to say about the experiences you both had. What about the scammers that Soosh has dealt with?! Mmmmm, after reading Regina’s post about how she was stiched up by the sly salespeople I just sat staring at the screen at a loss for words…..
It is awesome that you have “come back” from that situation and are now on the road to independance. You are obviously a do-er and a stayer. [
]For what my words are worth, I have to say that you have both really, really impressed me with your keeping focused even after you have being dragged down.
Good on you both, you WILL be succesfull.
Bruce
Hi Bruce, Hi all!
Actually, now that it’s all said and done, I’ve just
viewed the situation as a costly comedy of errors. []I’m sitting here watching ‘Pingu’ on video with my sons,
whilst trying to keep Simon’s hands of the computer cables
and I realise that YES I am a stayer but the motivation does
not come from a want of being rich alone. Money can’t
always make you happy. As my son has just been diagnosed with
Autism (the 3.5 year old) I realise that we are going to need
to put in place securities for him and ourselves.
Investing just for the sake of making a quick dollar will not
be enough to look after our family long term. These salesman
don’t often know the human side to the investors.
Vulnerability is a sure way to get them to take advantage.
I guess the rule of the world is ‘Survival of the fittest’
and when talking to agents etc, maybe its not good to show your hand
a ‘Poker Face’ might be a better approach. I have learnt the hard way, but you also learn quicker that way too.I just hope that by reading these stories, mistakes aren’t made by
others and that some schemes are exposed for what they are.Have a great weekend, Simon won the battle with the cables.. [
]Cheers
Sooshie [
]It’s all our imperfections that make us perfect!
Sooshie, very sorry indeed to hear about your son.
You are right, all that money will do is provide comfort,security and ability to do the best possible by your family.
We are in a very fortunate situation to have health, the best family and support. I see the other side of things all to often and count my blessings.
I was trying to use my story and as are you, for others to learn by.
When I turned 40, I started to realise that retirement will come up at some stage, or work till you drop.At first, I didn’t even understand a managed fund.
This started a very round about way to learn how to invest, advisers, seminars, books, magazines, FIN, dreadful decisions (serviced motel unit), poorly executed share trading, missed opportunities.
I was too much in a rush to create wealth quickly.
My conclusion, if you take a wrong turn, move on and learn by it.
Investment by nature can cause losses, inform yourself as much as possible. A lot of sharks out there want a share of your money and call themselves expert, by what right? Learn to be more patient.
Unfortunately, consumers continue to have very little rights, I have made such experiences with dodgy cars, real estate agents and my own home (that’s also another story), Archicentre, who didn’t pick up a rotten floor in a property we purchased (extra 2500 cost).
That’s another story! When crunch time comes and things go bad, you can complain as much as you like, remember, you have no rights, you are responsible for your self.
Consumer laws do very little or nothing to protect you.
Use this forum also to learn by others.
ReginaHi Regina,
Wow, you have been dragged through the mud [
] ! It’s true, there is
little protection for consumers. People should never call themselves
what they are not and if they do, they should be punished for being fraudulant. I guess we don’t live in a fair world all the time.By the way, thanks for your support [
]. My son is mildly autistic, possibly Aspergers (to early to tell, we found out Tue night) and he’s a delight most of the time, especially when he’s sleeping [] Our love for him and our younger son, keep us going when times are tough, but you can imagine that when dodgy salespeople come knocking
we get pretty upset. Not another scam! Laughable sometimes, tiring at other times.Nothing ventured nothing gained… And we will succeed! [
] We have
the right people on the team now…a little bit of fine tuning and we
should be okay.I’ve been bombarded by my boys..got to go
Have a great weekend
Cheers
Soosh
<font color=purple><i>It’s all our imperfections that make us perfect! </i></font id=purple>
Hi Sooshie
Hang in there, it sounds like you’ve learnt heaps and are ready to move on in a big way.
Sorry to hear about your son, fingers crossed that it’s only Asperger’s. My nephew has that, and with some medication and careful handling, most of the time he’s been able to cope with day to day life. But it can still be tough. Now he’s quite a bit older (high school next year) you’d basically never know that he’d had it, he controls it so well.Keep smiling
FelicityHi there,
Thanks for your well wishes [
] All’s okay at present, just coming to terms with everything and trying not to let it distract me from changing our lives for the better. It’s a must now, not an option.
Trying to stay out of mischief and not being swept up in any scams..yes they still do ring to ask us how were going and if we want another ‘financial planner’ to come out free of charge…now its really comical!!! “Sorry I’m bankrupt” – Nah, just kidding! [], but I’m sure that might get them of our backs… []Have a great week…
Cheers [
]Sooshie
<font color=purple><i>It’s all our imperfections that make us perfect! </i></font id=purple>
],
!]! I did a little Rumplestiltskin dance outside the accountant’s door and said to my hubby “That’s it, were not going back to him again, he’s a tax collector [}
]
] !
]), but the human shark variety gets me angry and I wish I never had to swim with them. They are a more deadly variety and often take much more than the shirt off your back! Or they try very hard too!
], luckily I’m not and neither is my hubby violent.
]
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