To simplify Japans recovery strategy into "going into more debt" without addressing the specifics or where that money goes is kindergarten rhetoric, freckle. Gimme a break. You don't like the news, don't think much of the strategy, suit yourself, but you can't ignore its existence. You're the one smacking your head into the wall here, not Abe.
Krugman, Abe, IMF, BOJ, FED, RBA – idiots, the lot of them, without a cent of wisdom and/or experience between them. Praise the lord for Kyle Bass and the Freckle – there may be hope for the world yet. Get off your high horse, it's getting tired. The data and severity of the global economy situation these past few years, Japan not being exempt, is known and well documented. You want to keep screeching that the sky's falling, I get it, Chicken Little, really. It's just that the rest of us would love to do their best to improve things in the meantime, whether the methods are to your liking or not, and also diversify and hedge and place our bets across the board with a long-term view when things are low here and there. You'll survive, I promise you, even if not everybody thinks you're a genius and the preacher of the one true gospel. So will Japan. And the people investing in it. Not everyone lost their pants when the economic manure hit the fan in the US too – speak to some of the people around here, they've actually been doing quite well, in most parts, and hope to continue and do so LONG TERM, past any temporary malaise. Enjoy your strategy and try to accept that not everybody in the world agrees with you and/or wants to dive into the pool of despair with you, Freck. Bummer, I know, but that's how it goes. And PLEASE try to come up with something new instead of jumping up and down with the same battered old signs every time new information presents itself. It's a bit embarrassing. At least the "superficial, unconvincing, weak" tripe that I post here presents some occasional new data every now and then…
I'd be interested in some detail, analysis and reasoning to support your position rather than superficial MSM reporting and retrospective descriptions of my position…
But you keep receiving it, it's just that you don't like it much, because it doesn't sit well with your doom and gloom theories. It's a bit funny that you accuse me of being retrospective in describing your retrospective views – you've made it quite clear, you believe that Japan is bound to crash. I've also made it quite clear that I believe you're speculating – as am I, and anybody else who may have anything to say about these potential futures. What you perceive as "shallow" media items and "a superficial paintjob" is, in my view, the best attempt Japan's made in decades at calculated and responsible growth attempts that, as many assume, will yield better results this time if not withheld prematurely. The reasoning and analysis is all around you, but you whack your hand over your eyes and keep repeating "not true, not true" in the hope that it'll go away, and only your favourite analysis remains, until it becomes reality. Maybe it will, maybe it won't – but I'll keep representing the sane approach, which Abe is actually pulling off rather well, in spite of your attempts to label anything even remotely positive as "shallow", "unconvincing" or any other superlative you may choose to attach to it. Here goes again, just in case anyone's missed it – Step 1 – QE (discussed to death, but here are the immediate results) – http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/11/business/global/pro-inflation-policies-show-signs-of-helping-japan-economy.html
Quote:
The most immediate effect of the weaker yen has been the increase in profits of major exporters. This past week, Toyota Motor reported that net income in the last 12 months had jumped threefold, and Sony produced an annual profit for the first time in five years. Both forecast further profit increases largely because of the weaker yen. Perhaps more important, particularly for the citizens of Japan, who have suffered from a long period of falling wages and prices, the yen’s move is expected to kindle inflation in the once moribund economy…the more immediate catalyst for the rate’s crossing of the threshold was signs of strength in the U.S. economy…"
Re-vitalized US economy + strengthening USD + weakening JPY = more exports (will it be long-term? your GUESS is as good as mine – on an immediate level, at least, seems to be happening)
Quote:
The key, economists say, lies in how much exporters will pass on their bigger profits to consumers, by raising wages or hiring new workers. Higher incomes would drive a much-needed recovery in consumption, bringing about a virtuous cycle of rising prices, profits, investment and even higher incomes. Mr. Abe himself has been publicly pressuring corporate executives to increase pay, declaring on television last month that companies needed to “return favorable corporate earnings to their workers,” prompting a string of companies to declare wage increases or extra bonuses in recent months…
The two most important policies in Abenomics’ “third arrow” — structural reform — are increasing labor mobility and keeping more women in the labor force so that they can help raise Japan’s GDP. These two issues are linked at the hip, and the economic potential that could be unlocked is vast…Japan’s female population still remains largely untapped as a source of economic growth. According to a Goldman Sachs study, if Japan could increase its employment rate to match its male employment rate of 80 percent, its workforce could potentially expand by 8.2 million people, boosting GDP by as much as 14 percent…
Goldman Sachs Group Inc. (GS) plans to invest as much as 50 billion yen ($487 million) in renewable energy projects in Japan in the next five years, tapping demand for electricity produced from solar and wind-power generators. The Wall Street firm also plans to take as much as 250 billion yen of bank loans and project-financing over the same period to move ahead with projects that would cost a total of 300 billion yen, Hiroko Matsumoto, a Tokyo-based spokeswoman for Goldman, said by telephone… Renewable energy has attracted interest from investors ranging from billionaire Masayoshi Son’s Softbank Corp. and financial-services company Orix Corp. to the country’s biggest banks led by Mizuho Financial Group Inc. Japan will probably become the largest solar market in the world after China this year, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. Commercial and utility-scale projects will boost solar installations to a range of 6.1 gigawatts to 9.4 gigawatts in 2013, exceeding an earlier forecast of 3.2 gigawatts to 4 gigawatts, Bloomberg New Energy Finance said in April…
And last but not least, the further untapped long-term potential of immigration, which we've discussed to death already, and is much further down the road. You don't like these attempts? Too speculative for you? Too dependant on what may or may not happen elsewhere in the world? Tough. That's how plans work. They assume, then re-adapt. As far as I can see, if anything has a chance to pull off this recovery and regrowth, this strategy's a pretty good bet. The mantra of "printing money doesn't create growth" is only half-true. The real way it goes is "printing money and throwing it aimlessly into the economy doesn't create growth". Well structured, flexible and motivating plans do, and Abe's got a pretty good shot at implementing his, as far as I can see. Sure, Japan might crash, the US recovery might turn into another big fall, and Europe may yet burn to the hilt. But maybe they won't. Maybe the people heading them will actually prove to be smarter than you and the rest of us couch-commentators are, and maybe it'll just be dumb luck that'll help matters through – in any case, Abe's plan for growth may eventuate, much in the same way that your predictions of doom may. You haven't got a clue, as annoying as it may sound to you – and neither have I. Spirits (and some very positive signs) are promising, and all I can do is continue to hedge, and support the markets I subscribe to – which is exactly what Japan's doing as well. Sorry if my hopeful analysis isn't to your liking, as I'm sure it won't be – but I think it's at least as good as your speculative attempts to predict the end of the world.
Yes, we've heard it before, you'll quote the economists who don't agree with the ones I quote and vice versa – the reasons both opinions exist is because no one knows what'll happen (including you, as shocking as this may sound).
Love the top one…at least now you admit to speculation and crystal balling – up until now you kept calling it "mathematical certainty". I quit, have fun playing with your graphs.
he's not doing the wrong things, I'll give him that much. And it's way too soon to evaluate, so not seeing all the positive movements in the market doesn't really worry me that much – I'm seeing enough of them considering these are early days.
time will tell, freckle. and a downturn doesn't really concern a long term real-estate investor to the extent it worries a short term player. I know you think differently, but I'd examine all of this two or three years down the track to have a real grasp of how things are going, seriously. Give it a rest.
they've been doing it for 20 years. How's that working out.
Depends on your point of view. Some of us (and PLEASE spare me the linking battle again, I'm sure you can find these opinions with ease, same as I can) actually think that, considering the magnitude of the fall they had, they've done spectacularly well – when similar things happened in other countries, all hell broke loose – yet Japan not only retained its global positioning as the worlds 2nd largest economy (surpassed only in 2010, when china took over), but also did it without the total social mayhem and suicidal depression that other nations experienced (ok, just one link, can't help myself – http://www.mindfulmoney.co.uk/economy/economic-impact/japan-s-real-economic-miracle/)
Quote:
20 years of failure. 20 years of doing the same thing with the same result
and, once more, this is your simplistic view of things. Others believe they've actually had excellent results – they've remained competitive, avoided a meltdown, and in the interim managed to also keep unemployment down – not to mention the fact that there are those who believe the only reason they haven't re-ascended to their full potential is because they pulled back all monetary interventions before they had a chance to take their full effect. Not an opinion I subscribe too, but neither do I subscribe to yours. I believe reality falls somewhere in between – they could have done better, but boy-oh-boy, they sure as hell could have done worse too.
Quote:
The difference between you and me is that you have blind faith. I don't.
You're right about that one – I do have faith in Japan, its people and its mentality – a large part of which is thanks to the fact that, in this case as well as in previous years, they don't really give much of a stuff to what freckle, the IMF or Germany thinks, to name but a few. They have their own way of doing things and, although according to your criteria they may have failed, according to their own criteria (which consists of far more than S&P credit ratings and gross national debt, and also includes sociological factors, measures of equality and general approval ratings by their own citizens, etc) they've done just fine, thanks very much.
To implement other people's ideas of "the correct economic measures" regardless of what the Japanese people actually consider to be important to them as a nation is pure idiocy from the Japanese perspective – and I for one completely agree.
Whether that faith is blind or not remains to be seen – but sure as hell won't be measured in the course of a month, or even a single year. Real estate investments, in similar fashion to economic reforms, take a bit longer than that to prove themselves (at least, the less speculative ones among them do). So you keep on screaming and twitching with every jerk and spasm of your graphs – and lets have this discussion again in three or four years time, shall we?
Not really, freckle, its just that you don't like the answer you've received.
Abe's current fiscal policy CAN kick start reasonable inflation and create growth, the Japanese CAN increase workforce participation and immigration, other countries CAN improve their own economic conditions and resume imports from Japan, and local holders of government debt CAN continue backing up their government until the situation improves, because its in their nature to do so, until improvement overtakes debt.
its just that you don't like the odds, as well as the general optimism and faith in this approach, so you prefer to paint the starker option as a certainty. the reason for this lies, whether you like to admit it or not, in your world view, which states that almost everybody is stupid and will do the wrong thing, and that the path they've chosen will not lead to any positive results. We disagree on all of these points, because we have different views of the world and the Japanese people in particular. Not really that complicated.
Yes, that existence is under threat (as its been for the last twenty years), yes, there are rocky times ahead, yes, it'll take a lot to pull them out of the fire, and yes, it also depends on how the rest of the world fares (as it does for every country in the globe). All of the above is correct. But to try and portray this as a certainty, or even as the most likely outcome, is speculation, pure and simple – and the reason you're trying to "sell" it as such has far more to do with your view of the world (including your view on the USA, Europe, or any other geographical area you'll have on your sights next year) and with your personal agenda than with anything else. I think that's pretty obvious from reading not only the debate on the subject, but also your own posts on the matter. There are many ways in which this situation may play out – your doom and gloom prophecies are only one of those ways, and the level to which you're alluding, as well as the finality you try to paint it with, are your own wishful thinking – nothing more. In spite of what you'd like us all to think, neither you nor I nor Abe hold all the answers to the Japanese equation – there are far more variables involved, as annoying as this may be to someone who likes to paint the world in black and white as you do.
This is getting tiresome, Freckle, particularly since we've had the exact same discussion in length several months ago.
with your permission, I'll leave you with the following excerpt from "The Independent" which sums up both sides of the argument – because really, we're just rehashing the same old tunes, and i think we both agree there won't be a resolution here –
Quote:
Stephen King, the chief economist of HSBC, has argued that Japan is in a structural economic decline that Mr Abe's monetary activism could well fail to reverse. "Offshoring, ageing, the unproductive use of women in the workforce and an acutely cautious attitude towards immigration have all played their part in constraining Japanese growth during its two lost decades," he wrote in the Financial Times. " A wave of the monetary magic wand cannot fix those problems." Yet the economists who know most about deflation and Japan say otherwise. They argue that Abenomics can work provided the programme is followed through and that policymakers do not withdraw the stimulus prematurely, as they have in the past. Richard Koo, the Japanese economist who coined the phrase "balance sheet recession" to describe his country's deflationary malaise, thinks the combined three pillars of Abenomics – fiscal stimulus, monetary stimulus, and supply side reform – "make sense". Adam Posen, a Japan expert who until last summer was a member of the Bank of England's Monetary Policy Committee, also believes the Bank of Japan is finally doing the right thing (although he is sceptical of the wisdom of Mr Abe's fiscal policies).
Note how even the staunchest resistance to Abe's policies agree that women in the workforce and immigration reform are key? (I know, you believe a significant rehaul of Japan's attitude towards foreigners is impossible – I don't, however. I've seen the Japanese embrace far more radical trends in the past). And we haven't even touched upon renewable energy in this discussion, a field which Japan is poised to lead the world in these next few decades, nor on service and household robotics, a field which is currently in its infancy, being led by Japan, and predicted to grow by 300% in the next five years, not least due to Japan's very own ageing population problem. As for gold – don't be ridiculous, please. I wasn't referring to anyone hedging their portfolios with gold, as many of us do – but to those, like yourself, to your own testimony, who firmly believe its a "safe haven" against all currency woes and make it a major pillar of their investment strategy. These kind of people profit directly from panic, and you know this as well as I do – you just don't want people to notice, because it drives a spoke in your logic and the reasons for which you apply it. I'll leave you with it, seriously, unless you have something (really) new to say for a change. I'm getting a very annoying feeling of déjà vu here…(https://www.propertyinvesting.com/forums/overseas-deals/4346966)
The yen borrow rate is has always been cheap as chips. For 20 years its been a textbook FX play. Borrow yen invest somewhere else bank the difference.
. I'm well aware of how carry trade works, thanks. The lady specifically mentioned "other places, where the currency will go up" – not "other investment vehicles in other countries". She has zero possibility of predicting this, except in the very short term perhaps.
Freckle wrote:
Yep Gold's a bad bad investment because it has no yield.
Never said that – all I said was that you, like most precious metal traders, have everything to gain when the world panics about anything under the sun – a claim that you're trying to (not so effectively) dodge and drives all of your posts on this forum – not just the Japan related ones. Who's misdirecting and using straw man arguments again?
Freckle wrote:
but he sure as hell isn't going to induce a wave of migrants who will receive a rapturous welcome to the few miserable jobs on offer
"The few miserable jobs on offer", in the worlds third largest economy with 4.1% unemployment? Are we talking about the same country, or are you completely lost in your own rambling, apocalyptic mind???
Freckle wrote:
… In reality the xenophobia discussion is a diversion to the real issues facing Japan
I beg to differ, I actually think immigration and equality in the workplace are two of the most significant discussions Japan should be (and is) having in the coming months and years – and that process has already started. Yes, the aversion to foreign intervention in "the old ways" of Japan runs deep – but so has the aversion to increased sales tax, to dropping nuclear reactors, and even to Abe himself. Things change, even in Japan.
Freckle wrote:
IT IS NOT AN OPINION OR PREDICTION. ………………IT IS A MATHEMATICAL CERTAINTY
No, it's not, and no amount of shouting will make it so, regardless of who it is shouting it and from which rooftop (particularly when it's shouted by hedge fund opportunists and gold dealers – the people that benefit the most from mongering panic after positioning themselves to benefit from its effects). Furthermore, the term "collapse" is vague, misleading, emotional, and has no measurable effect or result. Every economy has ups and downs, every economy is affected by others around and further from it, and every economy promises opportunities for those who are appropriately hedged and positioned. You're like the kid in the front cart of the roller coaster train, shrieking "we're all gonna die!" at every drop. All of us are aware of what's happening in our respective economies, as well as the ones we're invested in, whether they're the same, or not, or both cases. The only difference is, you're trying to convince everyone that each of these ascents or descents spells fire and brimstone and doom to everyone involved. It doesn't – only to the ones who invest in the hope of a quick buck and in a single investment vehicle. Again, the vast majority of the people on this forum aren't, so your screams are a tad wasted.
Freckle wrote:
The sub theme to that presentation was that the current Abe initiative is simply bringing forward the inevitable at an accelerated rate.
Yes, that's what she'd like everyone watching to believe, I realise that. On the other hand, she could be wrong, and he could be doing exactly what's needed to put Japan back on the fast track to growth. The reality, as usual, is somewhere in between – no matter what extremists like you want the public to buy.
If someone from Abe’s family line and political affiliation has gone as far as allowing Japanese women to leave their households and sub-servient positions in favour of incorporating them into the marketplace – do you really think he’ll stop at immigrants?
Very interesting barrel of speculation there, with echos of Bass' presentation from a few months back (and another a month or so ago, I believe, which I was already too tired to watch rehashed again).
Aside from the obvious semi-vendetta in “how dare they outmaneuver the mighty US of A in its currency wars, look what they’re doing to our bond market” gripes, some things immediately spring to mind –
1. “people borrow in yen, then invest elsewhere, where the currency will go up”. Really? I wonder where that might be and how these magical clairvoyants that the world seems to be full of predict that. Utter bollocks, as the last five years have shown time and time again.
2. “I’m a big believer in gold”. No, really? You mean like the rest of the panic mongers that fill her ranks? What a surprise. It’s amazing, isn’t it, how the vast majority of doomsday predictors are somehow invested in precious metals and their derivatives (yourself included, on a smaller scale).
3. “Japan doesn’t like immigrants, therefore they’ll never break out of the ageing population trap”. We already discussed this one to death – Japan’s already performing a major overhaul of its immigration laws, and this is one of the best bullets in their arsenal – make that a few truckloads of magazines’ worth – that they haven’t even slightly began to tap – and believe you me, tap it they will.
4. “We will see money fleeing to the safer countries, like the US…” That’s when I pulled the plug – didn’t wait for the end of it.
Give me a break. And pardon me for not continuing to comment on the other thread, too – your last post in that one was so full of speculation and so completely blind to the slight possibility that what happens in the rest of the world may have some effect on your crystalballing, that I didn’t even know how to start addrsesing it.
That's cool, oh-mighty-Freck-of-graphs and upcoming disasters, I think I finally get where our constant disagreement (or really, your basic dis-satisfaction with real-estate investing in any way shape or form) really comes from.You're looking at things from your preferred investment philosophy viewpoint, which says the world is a disaster, one could be losing money every month, and the ideal investment vehicle runs tidy 3-5 month profits, then allowing the investor to escape unscathed by market conditions, hopefully having increased his capital 100-200% in the interim. I'm sure you had your ups and downs with this strategy, that you've laid out for us in the past, just like any of us have had with their RE portfolios over the years too. From that perspective, you're absolutely right. People have "lost" (10-15% reduced by 30% still equals 7-10% net pre-tax, and should it drop further, it'll still be higher than their eternally safe long term cash deposits in today's environments, so no real harm done) – and even that loss is only real and substantial when they eventuate it (eg, bring their incomes back home because they depend on their REI yields to pay for their daily lives – not exactly the attitude most globally hedged REI are all about). Every month that passes without an immediate resolution of all issues in the local economy could be paving the way for further losses. A 5-20 year slump such as the US, Europe or Japan have seen and probably will see again is horrible for someone who was planning to go first-class around the world this summer on his Japanese, US or European income, or feed the kids off it and it alone. But the fact is, most of us are in it for the long-haul. Foreign investors in the USA who may have purchased pre-GFC may have lost some in the short-term (although, from what we're reading here, the ones that did were the ones that hooked up with shoddy operators. Those that invested more wisely, even if their overall value has dropped, and perhaps even their monthly returns, to an extent, are probably still sitting on their money and meanwhile living on other incomes from other countries and sources, as most of us here on this forum do) – Japanese investors like the ones I'm buying from today may have lost a great deal (and indeed, there are occasional foreclosures, although nothing like what we see in other countries) if these properties were their only sources of income. But for most of us, these are all the realities of investing overseas. It's a managed risk, easily countered with hedging and diversity. Your screams of "fire, fire!", to the long-term global real-estate investor who utilizes global economy, are windows of opportunity and expansion. All is well with our world. And besides all that, there's the fact that we actually enjoy what we're doing, too – makes things easier. Governments and central banks are not wizards. They're mostly stupid and corrupt. But you and me don't have all the answers either. For me, personally, it's all about supporting the business environments, countries and morals/practices I subscribe to. The more people like you and me become financially proficient and able to inject funds into where they're needed most, the better, even if it's not the ideal financial vehicle in someone else's eyes. Take a chill pill
“Our pricing policy is demand-based and not cost-based, so it’s not because of increasing material price,” he said.
Yeah right.
So you’re basically saying the increase IS due to increasing material price…considering McDonald’s Japan pride themselves on using local produce, it almost sounds as if the two decade long trend of deflation is being arrested/reversed…nah, couldn’t be.
Freckle wrote:
Property demand in Japan heats up
Written by CRE investment firm!!! An article based on wishful thinking and hopium.
Right…how about the wallstreet journal, CNBC & business week then (to name only a few)? Wishful thinkers, the lot of them, I take it –
I can go on and on and on, (as could you, I’m sure) but you get the point – this is no more “wishful thinking” than your own “wishful thinking” of pending doom and gloom – reality is neither euphoric nor suicidal – it’s just reality, and it can point in oh so many directions, which is what I was saying in the original post – that these MAY be signs of capital growth returning over the next few years, and certainly are better news than we’ve been seeing come out of Japan for the last two decades or so. While this may not be the case (only time will tell, certainly not you, me or Paul Krugman or Kyle Bass), it certainly also isn’t the case of sure-fired destruction you’re trying to portray here. So no, you’re not over the top in your Japan bashing – you’re just over the top in bashing anything which doesn’t subscribe to your own investment preferences. Basically, your attitude has been, is and most likely will remain “it’s my way or the highway”, without really giving too much regard to what it actually is you’re bashing in this particular case. And before you accuse me of blaming the messenger, I’ll remind you that the messenger doesn’t really exercise any real discrimination between the subjects of his various messages either (US yesterday, Europe tomorrow, and the flavour of the moment happens to be Japan for you).
Freckle wrote:
…foreign investors must think the yen depreciation has bottomed. When in fact there are predictions that the yen will continue on to US1.45 at least and if things get away from the BOJ we could see US1.90…
Not sure which foreign investors you’re referring to – maybe you’ve run across a great many acquaintances who hold this view. Personally, my view (and, as far as I can tell, that of the vast majority of our clients), is nothing of the sort. As mentioned countless times before, we invest in various countries in currencies, and not with funds we would need in a hurry either (as I suspect most savvy RE investors do). We did this when the yen was at 85, we’re still doing it when it’s at 100, and will most likely continue doing so if it hits 145 (to which “there are predictions” as you mysteriously allude…not even “most predictions” ) – if and when it drops (something that we certainly don’t claim to hold the crystal-balling exclusivity to, and nor do you, we normally leave the funds in Japan, to utilize further purchases, improvements, etc (because the further it drops, the better the deals become normally). If and when it rises, we may choose to bring our incomes back home. In any case, this is – I repeat as I’ve done dozens of times in these discussions with you – A LONG TERM PLAY. Your panic mongering may strike a chord with investors who were planning to withdraw their income every month or six – certainly not a strategy I’ve ever advised anyone to pursue in international REI, in Japan or anywhere else in the world, and certainly not a strategy I hold to be very wise, regardless of where in the world one invests, as it shows immense lack of planning and risk analysis.
Freckle wrote:
Canada Pension Plan teams up with GE Capital on Japan real estate
Same as above. More muppets playing with OPM but collecting huge fees regardless of how this works out.
Freckle wrote:
Nippon Prologis Jumps in Debut After $1 Billion IPO: Tokyo Mover
A REIT play based on an assumption BOJ QE will stimulate the economy.
Ok, now I’m starting to get the picture. It doesn’t really matter how many players are active anywhere or how big/small they are, nor what their previous record is – when they align with your views, such as flocks of panicky investors shorting a currency after every unsavoury CB announcement , they’re “in the know” and are “fairly switched on cookies”. When they act based on an idea you’re not in agreement with, they immediately become “muppets, speculators, gamblers and sheep”. It all makes sense now. Pardon me if I don’t bombard you with the vast cadre of funds, trust and institutional investors that have been going stir-crazy in Japan since late 2011 – you can run some web searches if you want, or drill down through our news items from that Prologis link – you’ll find the well runs pretty deep, and has been for a while – it’s only that the message took some time to filter down to the masses. Goldman Sachs and TPG, I think, were the first major fund to kick off this trend, but were certanily not the last.
Much similar to your favourite graphs play, actually. When you can’t avoid showing that they’re in the green, it’s because they’re “barely just keeping their heads above water” and through no credit to their actions or policies (couldn’t be just dealing with tough global economic climates to the best of their ability, in similar fashion to any other market, because that doesn’t sit well with your gospel). When they’re in the red, however, regardless of how long it’s been after various measures have been announced, let alone trialled or implemented, it’s imeediate proof that afore-mentioned measures are failing.
When (not if) the USD looses its reserve status then Japan will have to rejig its foreign currency holdings. That's likely to affect its ability to control its own currency to a certain extent. Given the parlous state of the Japanese economy the degree of control they could exert in a crises may or may not be a good thing.
I quite agree, but that's a hell of a long haul from the "abandon all hope ye who enter here" approach that you've been preaching above and in similar discussions. All it is really is one hint of one possible scenario that may or may not be bad news for Japan to some degree or another (and for many other countries in a similar situation). Similar things can be said regarding assets in a plethora of other environments down the track. I'm glad you've come down to earth a bit. If you wanted to say that holding assets in only one country and/or only in one currency is a risky business, I couldn't agree with you more.
JT7 wrote:
Those BRIC nations are stocking up on physical gold bullion at a absolute bargain at the moment….. China economy will overtake the US in a matter of a few short years…… Conspiracy…? I'm not so sure…..
Sorry, I wasn't clear enough – the conspiracy theory reference was to the fact that freckle advocates that the sorry state of the USD and the intentions of russia to devalue it will indisputably and definitely lead to the fall of Japan's economic system – ridiculous, for the reason mentioned above. To claim that any group of nations' opinions and efforts to combat currency supremacy by another's are the main and sure reason for the future demise of another nation is not just impossible to predict, but also ridiculous in the sense that it puts the fate of one or more nations in the hands of another or several others. The world is a bit more complex than that.
Freckle wrote:
What you're saying is that property is virtually worthless apart from its utility value…
No, what he's saying (confirming what I was saying) is that Japanese people have lost faith in their own property market in most part, of twenty years of declining values. The reason for this, except for the obvious, is also deeply rooted in the Japanese psyche and mentality, in much the same way that the vast majority of people who hear that Japan is currently a lot easier to live in, cost of living wise, than Australia for instance, think I'm pulling their leg – because they've still got the mantras of twenty years ago firmly stuck in their minds ("Tokyo is the most expensive city in the world" etc – this hasn't been the case for over a decade, but most of the world hasn't noticed). I'll bet you a hundred bucks right now that Terry's relatives haven't checked on the price or renovations to their units for the last ten years or so, or if they have, they may have checked with the wrong contractors – if they would have, they'd have been pleasantly surprised (incidentally, terry, we'd be more than happy to show them how the money they've lost over the last 7-10 years would have most likely already paid for their renovations – if not more). Foreign big money, however, isn't subject to these lingering mantras of the past – and while Goldman Sachs, much like the Lehman brothers, cannot predict the future, they sure as hell can calculate returns, costs and purchase expenses in the present – which is why they, like many other, bigger players, have been purchasing in Japan like crazy since late 2011. Freckle, I've yet to see you address even one of the news items mentioned above – would you care to, or is MSM, as you like to abbreviate the worlds media channels, and just about everybody they're reporting is active in this space, just so full of gunk and inferior to your superior analysis capabilities that you just can't be bothered?
Not sure what you wanted to say with those abandoned houses there – here's the summary of the article your zerohedge friend, who's intent, like you, on spreading his agenda of "short Japan, all hell is breaking loose!!!" conveniently forgot to incorporate into his so-called article/post – as he copied and pasted only the relevant parts, then added his own "spin" on them (a spin that exists only in his mind. the facts, however, are copied and pasted from the Japan Times – but the newspaper also continues to offer an explanation, which your friend didn't like that much -) Why have the figures increased even in urban areas?Hidetaka Yoneyama, a senior fellow of Fujitsu Research Institute and an expert on issues related to unoccupied houses, said many of the houses in question are about 50 years old and were built during the period of rapid economic growth from the mid-1950s to the early 1970s. With the rising trend toward homes shared by only nuclear family members, the owners' children ceased living together and the house became vacant after the parents died. Even if children inherit the houses and land, the homes are usually eventually abandoned for such reasons as: — The legality of rights among family members is complicated and multiple heirs are involved. — The heirs live far away and do not have a good understanding of how to maintain vacant houses. — The heirs cannot afford to maintain the house. In some cases, if vacant houses are demolished, new homes cannot be built on the same land.The Building Standards Law stipulates that a plot of land with a building on it must in principle open onto a road at least four meters wide. A strip of land at least two meters wide must also connect to the road to allow for emergency vehicle access. But some plots with unoccupied houses do not meet these conditions. Also, if owners demolish abandoned houses and leave the land vacant, they will no longer be eligible for a reduction or exemption from the fixed asset tax for residential land. If a plot of land measures less than 200 square meters, the taxable value of the land alone would jump sixfold from the tax base before demolition of a vacant house on the land. As for the JGB market – we've chewed this issue to death, but here we go again – No, Freckle, rising government bond yields are NOT always an imminent sign of an economy spiralling towards oblivion – sometimes they reflect expectations for growth and inflation, for instance (here's a lengthier explanation – http://monetaryaffairs.blogspot.com.au/2013/04/jgbs-imitate-usts-post-quantitative.html), much in the same way that a grandiose public debt on paper isn't always what it seems in reality, particularly in countries where the households save close to 10% of GDP per year. In short, to go back to your favourite bushfire metaphor which pictures me as the blind optimist – you're screaming "fire, fire" and jumping up and down a lot at the first sign of smoke, regardless of its source (why? beats me…either you like a good panic for personal reasons, or it some other purpose) while the person (Abe, in this case) who's making the stew looks at you with a raised eyebrow thinking ("well, how the hell did he expect me to cook without it?"). Yes, it's a fire – a purposeful, controlled one. Sure, fires can go out of control if left unchecked, and cause some significant damage – but most of them don't, and can make for a great utility since about caveman day. As for the last link, please, can we not go into that here? )) I mean, conspiracy theories are great and all, I love a good yarn myself, but to bring it up in this discussion (eg "Japan will fall because Russia, Brazil, India and China are on a global dollar-deletion mission") is a bit too much even for a sci-fi buff like myself… Any chance to get some reference to the original news items, or are you just here to blow the fire some more with your back to the board again? If you are, I'll have to ask you to leave the classroom, we're here to discuss things – rationally – not have a muddy-screaming-panic-day-feast, as much as you love those. Focus, please.
My mistake, your BRIC conspiracy saga came directly after the JGB graph – I naturally assumed it was a continuation of the same line of thought. I stand corrected – please, enlighten me, how is Russia's document relevant to this discussion and the news items originally posted?
— The legality of rights among family members is complicated and multiple heirs are involved.
— The heirs live far away and do not have a good understanding of how to maintain vacant houses.
— The heirs cannot afford to maintain the house.
not believing the above shows very little understanding of the Japanese people who traditionally own these "houses", or the state of the properties in question themselves. Yes, I believe the above whole-heartedly. The property obsession most of the western and asian world is in the midst of is quite lost on most Japanese folk, particularly the older generations who lived through the last bust of the early nineties. Read some about the Japanese financial mentality, particularly as far as property investment is concerned, then let's have this conversation again.
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…That makes so much sense now you've clarified that for me…
no, you're right, it's all the evil Russians and braillizans' fault. How could I have been so blind. Come on, man, you used to do better than that.