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  • Profile photo of YossarianYossarian
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    perpetrator wrote:

    The broker told my brother that the val on his property had in fact come in short and he would need to pay the shortfall.
    Also as the finance was not approved by the due date an extension was asked for, however, the request was never dated when signed by my brother. Is this document nul and void?

    *snip*

    The conditional fax from the bank also states "variance between purchase land & construct value and actual valuation held is >10%. The consent from applicants required to proceed with application" he has signed no such document.

     
    First things first, check the finance term in contract for sale. No point guessing.

    Secondly, don't let your brother near a RE salesperson unescorted.

    Profile photo of YossarianYossarian
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    M3 wrote:
    Quote:

    M

    Go back and reread all the posts. Especially yours – you were asking to borrow $250,000 based on a security of $150,000. It is a business purpose, but you don't want to tell the bank that because they won't lend. What else can you do?

    Who is borrowing the money? you or your partner's parents?

    That was the original plan but it was not possible.. What else can I do? Thats why I'm asking.

    My partner's parents are borrowing the money on behalf of me. 

    Yossarian If the business fails, I'll sell it at a lost and I still have my job and my partner will get a job to pay back the rest of the loan. I think you heard alot of these deals not seen… It's only 100k, the banks not going to take the house unless they miss repayments.  They know the risk involved.

    This is getting side track. I don't think I can get a proper answer.  Line of credit as Qld007 suggested would be the best option I guess. 

    I work in the lending game. I haven't  "heard", I've seen and done ;)

    They invariably follow the following pattern:

    *child/child's partner want's money to great business opportunity (has existing business in trouble, expansion planned or   buying new one) but has no cash.
    *parents (generally loving,naive, optimistic and/or NESB) are keen to help.
    *parents mortgage property  on promise by child/child's partner that they will pay the bills no matter what happens
    *business goes pear-shaped
    *debts go unpaid as do parents/parents-in-law
    *parents/parents-in-law fall behind on mortgage
    *bank takes property
    *legal bunfights ensue

    If you can't buy it, don't.
     

    Profile photo of YossarianYossarian
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    M3 wrote:

    My partner and I will be fully accountable for the debt, we will never do that to her parents. 

    If the loan is in her parents names, against their property, they are responsible for the loan. If your business fails and you can't pay them, they can't pay the bank, and the bank will take their house.

    I have seen * a lot* of these sorts of deals turn to custard and, regrettably, they all start out with best intentions.

    If you value your relationship with your partner and respect their parents, you should not take their money unless they get independent legal adice.

    Profile photo of YossarianYossarian
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    M3 wrote:

    I've spoken to Westpac, they need to know the purpose of the loan…
    I am affraid to state that the loan is for a business as I will then need to apply for a business type loan, which I assume is harder to obtain because the business I am buying is "trading at a loss".

    I orginally wanted $250k but would be happy with $100k..

    Is there any other options?

    [/quote

    So the plan is to purchase a business that is defrauding the taxpayer by defrauding a lender and/or lumbering your parents in law with ultimate accountability for the debt.

    Sweet.

    Profile photo of YossarianYossarian
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    Cattleya wrote:
    ew….

    Hi Tim,

    Thanx for calling me crap. I know I was 'creative' but I challenge your claim that it was illegal. There is no law saying that you have to disclose everything to the bank. There is only a statement in mortgage application form saying you have disclosed everything. And because you sign this, it becomes legally binding.

    Now, before you jump on me… this application forms are drafted by the banks. THEY established all the rules and we are forced to abide by it. Anyway… good citizenship says you should play by the rules. But I'm not willing to give up $23000 for nothing… and for the greedy banks too.

    I can understand why it is in your best interest to scare the public into succumbing to the Bank's rules because that's how you earn your living.

     
    Allow me to make this simple for you:

    You lied on an application for credit
    As a result, you have (a) "obtained a financial advantage by deception" thereby committing an offence and (b) breached your loan contract , providing your lender the right to call in your loan without notice.

    Your lack of integrity should not lead others into taking an approach that is both dumb and dishonest.

    Oh, and your confidence is matched only by your ignorance.

      

    Profile photo of YossarianYossarian
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    Rellie wrote:
    Hi

    Does anyone know where I can locate the current wholesale rate for the day?

    I spoke to my bank about paying out a fixed loan and they can tell me the current wholesale rate for theday I took out the loan but not for today. I want to verify the break/exit fees they are charging me are correct.

    Thanks,
    Narelle

    The basis for the calculation will be in your loan contract. I'd suggest you start there.

    As a guide, one common way to do it is:
    *when you took out your fixed rate you wanted interest rate x% locked in for y years.
    *essentially, your bank would have done the same. matching your funding requirements to their own.
    *if you break your bit, they say, "hang on, we've locked away money at x% for y years and because interests rates are now down, there's no bloody way we can re-lend 'your' money for the remaining term to anyone else"
    *so, they say "well, you've got so many years left on your loan…if we hadn't locked money away based on your requirements, we could lend your money to someone else for the remaining term, fixed at the current prevailing rate of z%"
    *in other words, if there is one year left on your term, they will work out the difference between the rate you promised to pay and todays 1 year fixed rate, and that's the bill.

    Profile photo of YossarianYossarian
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    Terryw wrote:
    where is kochi?

    Is it the little thing that dangles at the back of your throat?

    Profile photo of YossarianYossarian
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    Terryw wrote:
    Thats it Mick. You will pay more stamp duty and if there is a lender involved which mortgages the property it may be considered fraud if not disclosed. If there is no lender, then?????? check with your lawyer.

    If :

    *the value the lender is basing their approval on is conditional on certain contractual improvements to the property occuring prior to settlement; and
    *those conditions are not met prior to settlment

    why would a lender proceed to settle?

    Profile photo of YossarianYossarian
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    The tax office get's very interested in any arrangement, the structure of which, cannot be "explained" other than as a mechanism to avoid or minimise tax. As with all these things (a) don't establish a tax efficient structure based on the advice of someone not licensed or qualified to do so and (b) if there is any doubt, get a private ruling.

    Profile photo of YossarianYossarian
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    yopoli wrote:
    Thanks Richard,  your explaination is clear for me and no doubt that they don't show me details of calculation method. I understand that it's complex pretty much. However I'm wondering if something is unreasonable, I narrow down my case as below few lines:

    1) 15 Oct. variable rate: 7.88%, break cost: $10000  (got reply within 3 hrs)
    2) 10 Dec. variable rate: 7.13%, break cost: $17000 (got reply in a week)
    3) 15 Dec. variable rate: 6.13%, break cost: $18000 (got reply within 3 hrs)
    4) 22 Dec. variable rate: 6.13%, break cost: $19000 (go reply in within1 hrs)

    I raised my request on 8 Dec to query the break cost but got reply on 15 Dec, when they issued new rate 6.13%. I argued them why delayed my request a week? They said sorry to me and also told me no big difference between two weeks.  I dont understand why 1% reduction of variable rates had no big impact on the break cost.

    I was going to query break cost on 8 Dec and get reply on same day and then made a decision if I would break my fixed rates because I have predicted the bank must decrease the rates in one or two weeks. Almost everytime, it cuts the rates 2 or 3 weeks later after CBA published new rates. However I got reply late for a week especially I called them and physically got in their office to follow up totally more than 4 times. It's unbelievable and unacceptable. It's another story but it's why I suspected if such break costs are reasonable.

    Thanks once again for your explaination and hope you all have a merry Christmas and a happy new year.

    Tom

    I think you'll find the relevant rate the bank uses to calculate the break costs is their current fixed rate or swap rate, not the current variable rate.

    Profile photo of YossarianYossarian
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    C2 wrote:
    Yossarian,

    Only tax fraud if intent can be proven.  By being up front with the bank and borrowing 30K to do IP renovations is legal.  If Paul 6 months later decides to only use 5K towards the renovation instead of 30K and the rest to pay off ppor where does fraud come into it.  It is a very grey area and why I indicated to tread very carefully if going down this path.

    Uummmm…no, nothing grey about it.

    Monies borrowed to produce an income are tax deductible. If you borrow $30K it's not tax deductible unless and when it is applied to an income producing purpose. The tax fraud issue is a no brainer.

    Insofar as representations made to the lender, they can detect bullshit as well as the next guy.

    Caveat emptor

    Profile photo of YossarianYossarian
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    Terry,

    OneDirect is ANZ's on-line play.

    Profile photo of YossarianYossarian
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    keiko wrote:

    well will this work you buy house at $300k you pay stamp duty on $300k the vendor pays tax on $300k (if any) the banks loan you 90-95% on the $300k its also valued at $300k
    Now the vendor gives you a gift of $15k Or $30k surely thats just like receiving a plasma tv for your christmas present 

    If it is a contractual obligation to provide the "gift" as a condition of initially paying $300K then it needs to be disclosed to the lender.

    You can dress it up any way you like but If it quacks like a duck..and walks like a duck…it's a duck

    Profile photo of YossarianYossarian
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    C2 wrote:
    Lets look at Pauls05 situation in another light.

    If for example Paul owes 30K on a PPOR he could ask the bank for the extra 30K for possible future renovations on the IP he is borrowing for.  If later Paul decides to not do the renovations and use the 30K towards paying off the PPOR then the interest could still be classified as a tax deduction as the main purpose for the 30K was to originally do renovations.  The ATO may see it differently which is why one needs to becareful when doing this.  If the rate that one borrows the money at is lower than the current 30K owed on PPOP then even if the ATO knocks it back you still have lower repayments.

    Paul05,

    You might find that your best option as previously mentioned is to be just up front with the bank about the extra money. 

    First suggestion is tax fraud.

    Last suggestion is on the money.

    Profile photo of YossarianYossarian
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    alani wrote:
    are australian banks short of capital at the moment, umm, I dont think so 

    Sure…they're out there doing/planning capital raising purely for fun 

    Profile photo of YossarianYossarian
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    pauls05 wrote:
    Hi all

    Im new and just joined

    Im currently in the process of purchasing my second property and taking advantage of the FHOG of 14K
    I have found a propert way undervalued with the seller in a situation of near mortgagee sale, and going towards bankruptcy withing 2 weeks.
    Basicly is it possible to get a contact price of say $260,000 and find a way to only pay the seller say $230000  and pocket the excess at settlement without the bank knowing.
    How could a solicitior write upa  clause that i get to only pay the seller $230000
    the property is worth at lease the 260K but i want to only offer/pay the $230K and use the funds for immediate renovations.
    Has something similar been done before?any ways around
    at the end of the day the bank doesnt need to know,they will send their valuer in and have it valued for the contract price of 260K which isnt a problem.
    any ideas??
    vendor finance or something?

    email if you have naything please.
    appreciate your time
    -Paul smart

    0406660891
    [email protected]

    What Foundation said.

    Profile photo of YossarianYossarian
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    Qlds007 wrote:
    You need to understand that the Gemworth policy varies from lender to lender so you may still be able to refinance and move forward.

    Also bear in mind that not all lodoc loans are mortgage insured so that will also help you carry on.

    Richard, I think you'll find the recently announced Genworth changes (i.e. Lo Doc) are across the board.

    Want to take a bet on QBE's response ?

    Profile photo of YossarianYossarian
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    ummester wrote:
    Yossarian wrote:
    Yeah, all those atmospheric scientists driving Ferraris, theoretical physicists sunning themselves on yachts and molecular biologists skiiing in St Moritz.

    They're *clearly* in it for the money

    How about in it for the industry? Proof of future employment? Convince the public that there is a reason to need the scientific community and not opose the grants.

    Also, like Harb noted, there is a political side to this. Governements need a crisis to keep the public in control. The right has opted for terrorism and war, the left likes the environment. Either way, it isn't so much about making individuals rich as it is about convincing the public that there is a reason for those individuals to be employed.

    You appeared to be implying (correct me if I'm wrong ) that there's a bunch of scientists knowlingly telling porkies in order to make a quid and that scientific endeavour is akin to any other profit making exercise. The fact that the vast majority of scientists are academics and public servants earning well less than the average RE agent is sufficient to put the latter to rest and if you were familiar with the nature of peer-reviewed research across the scientific community you would know that the former just aint possible.

    Nw just because you're paranoid doesn't mean people aren't out to get you, but it isn't a bunch of atmospheric scientists in lab coats.

    *sound of black helicopters hovering menaciingly outside*

    Profile photo of YossarianYossarian
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    Yeah, all those atmospheric scientists driving Ferraris, theoretical physicists sunning themselves on yachts and molecular biologists skiiing in St Moritz.

    They're *clearly* in it for the money

    Profile photo of YossarianYossarian
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    harb wrote:
    foundation wrote:
    I think I've been very measured in response to the provocation, aggression and outright lies from yourself and your buddy harb?

    provocation, aggression and outright lies ? That's not a very nice thing to say about your buddies.
    I was looking forward to finding out the reason they kicked you out ,

    Quote:
    . was there any particular reason you've had to change your username there ?

    was it because you were too bullish for them ?

    Quote:
    How is the silver going by the way , has it made it back past the USD10 yet ?

    Wow, holding silver for 4 years with no returns, no tax advantage and very little if any CG. I guess it could have been much worst, you could have taken a loan to buy the silver.
    Shame about not putting your money to better use back in 2004-2005, like getting a loan to buy some some properties in SA or WA before the boom there. If only you asked someone in here at the time ….
    On a 5% deposit, you could have made a killing and received a regular return on your investment along the way. Now you'd be sitting on 2-300% capital gains and positively geared properties that your tenants would be paying off for you. Much better then having sleepless nights or nightmares about Jack Sparrow digging up your backyard in search of your treasure chest.

    cheers,

    Harb,

    You're not covering yourself with glory here

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