Forum Replies Created
Marc1
Blow it out your a..e! LOL [strum]
You make a number of assumptions that aren’t true. Yes, you caught me on the “filthy stinkin'” terminology. I shouldn’t have used it since it wasn’t meant literally. We all have the right to be rich if we can make it happen. I know that a lot of rich people do a lot in the community that never really sees the light of day. If people create their wealth by fair means, more power to them. I want to learn from those people.
Don’t assume things about me, such as being on a path to mediocrity. You don’t know how wealthy I am. I’m far from being on the bones of my a..e, like the average person off the street. I always work on my mindset, but it is not as poor as you might believe. In fact, I am open to many ideas in the world of investment. I can’t stand hype and so-called “positive” talk that turns out to be fluff. Ed Burton (a seminar presenter) once stated something like, “doesn’t matter how positive you are, if you don’t know what to do you will fail.” Truer words were never spoken. So there is far more to investing than just a positive attitude (which is a given).
Just because Robert Kiyosaki is a “guru” doesn’t mean we can’t question his advice, writings and motives. He is not precious. I give him due credit for creating a fabulous empire though. He is very good at his business.
Wez.
Interesting feedback. Good to see different points of view.
I am in no way against education and we all use various means to pursue our goal of educating ourselves. But to say that we educate ourselves no matter the cost is foolish. What if I were to say I am running a seminar that will cost you $30000 to attend, what would you say?
I am also not saying all high priced seminars are a waste of money. No. No doubt as some have mentioned they learnt much which they applied.
There are two critical points to me:
1. This idea that education must be expensive to be valuable. Rubbish. Seminar presenters use this to their advantage. They claim to have secrets. They don’t. They may have experience and knowledge to pass on – fair enough, but not secrets. I would like someone to give me a clearcut reason why a few days at a seminar should cost $5000, say, rather than $500 which would appear to be more than reasonable.
2. When we are naive it is amazing how we will readily part with our money. Lavish ads promising to show us the way to wealth quickly catch many of us. We don’t question it, but believe if we don’t take the opportunity now it will never appear again. It is a get-rich-quick mentality that we have to overcome because it is simply human nature to be like that.
Seminars can still play an important role, but at a more reasonable price and without the hype.
Wez.
DD
You would buy a property if history suggested there was little or no chance of capital growth, as long as it was cash flow positive? I still think you must have a reasonable expectation of growth before buying. You appear to have achieved the best of both worlds. Well done!
I would hate to be the person who paid $270k for a property that was valued at $90k only three years earlier. He/she would be in for a long wait for sustainable gains. Properties just cannot continue rising at such a rate, which means there would be a long period of stagnation at some point to balance out the huge speculation.
1hoobadriver
Why is it that people always assume buying shares is based on hope, yet property is a dead certainty? If you analyse a company and believe it to be sound with good prospects into the future based on what it has done and is doing, why is that so different to buying a property based on similar analysis? A business has cash flow just like a property also.
Property is bricks and mortar – you can touch it goes the argument. Colorado (the company), for example, is real and I can walk into a shop and touch it. Same thing. People point out that there is no control in owning shares. Maybe true, but if we don’t like what a company is doing we can sell it off in the blink of an eye (almost!). This versatility is something that property simply can’t match.
At the end of the day both property and shares have their advantages and disadvantages. And I really doubt that one can claim to be so much better than the other.
Wez.
ANUBIS
No, I’m not angry with the world, no more so than the next person. I certainly hate injustice and deceit, but particularly hate hype in the world of investment. And there’s a @#$%@#$ lot of it! I am trying to steer clear of eggheads like this who are full of crap. I just want stuff that is real and I can work with.
I have always been more interested in the share market, so it is not as if I am disillusioned with property and now looking to shares. I believe both to be good at the appropriate time. I like the markets because of the flexibility. Buy a share in two minutes online – in two weeks determine I made a mistake – sell it in another two minutes – end of story. How long does that take in the property market? You have the power to correct mistakes in the share market quite quickly. What happens if it dawns on you you shouldn’t have bought a particular property for whatever reason?
The property transaction process (that I have written of in another thread) is a shocker compared to the share market, e.g. I can buy a parcel of shares worth $500,000 for a grand total in brokerage of $600. Tell me the cost of buying an equivalent property. I predict there will be some sort of evolution in the property transaction process because the current system is a dud and needs shaking up.
Kay alluded to a good point. Whether it be the share or property markets, people want a rigid rule to guarantee them amazing profits. That will never work. What it comes down to is we have to gain much knowledge about our chosen field of investment if we hope to succeed. If that prospect seems too difficult, then people should stop wasting time thinking they will become rich almost by accident.
Investing is difficult and knowledge about what you are doing can’t be underestimated.
Wez.
It’s my goal to retire (from paid work) ASAP. For the past three years I have been pursuing this goal in that I haven’t worked for anyone other than myself as a private investor. My challenge is to make it sustainable year-in, year-out. I don’t know the answer to that yet.
The freedom from office politics and a boss has been absolutely brilliant. I am more motivated in what I’m doing. I certainly don’t need paid work for enrichment. Being able to make your own choices is so liberating, so much so that it’s worth pursuing everyday until I reach my goal.
As an example, since I don’t have to answer to anyone, I’m off to Brisbane next week to welcome home the Olympians – should be great! Anyone who wants to work until they’re 70 are quite welcome to it. There are too many other interesting things to do.
Wez.
Feedback from a friend of mine:
Apparently Robert Kiyosaki has just run, or is in the process of running, a seminar on the Gold Coast/Brisbane. He said that RK had 400 people booked in at $6000 a head. Not bad for a few days work. You really have to wonder why one tenth that value isn’t an acceptable return. I guess he has done a number of seminars in the other capitals. That’s a hell of a lot of money!
He’s milking it for all it’s worth. [grrr]
JackFr
You’ve absolutely nailed it! Gurus charge high prices because they can, not because it’s value. They create an aura and very cleverly tap into a basic human want – to get rich quickly without expending much energy. This is a very strong temptation and we have all felt it at some stage of our lives. It makes us do silly things, like spend thousands on seminars without even questioning what we are doing. We fear missing out on some big secret.
It is the people who get over all this hype, see the reality and apply themselves who have a chance of succeeding. [grad]
Wez.
Pisces
Yes, you’d be right, but people seem to want to sabotage their success by doing things like that. If you spoke to all the people who pay for seminars, I wonder how many would tell you they had to get a loan or put it on a credit card?
Wez.
Kay
You make many good points.
Sometimes people don’t realise the damage they are doing to themselves. They keep forking out thousands and thousands of dollars on seminars trying to convince themselves and others it is all for the best. They are not looking at it objectively. In a sense, they become brainwashed and nothing you say will make them analyse what they are doing.
Take an extreme case. Someone has $50,000 set aside for investment. Now, they have heard that you must educate yourself before you do anything with your money. Good advice. So they come under the influence of seminar providers and convince themselves that the money spent will be well worth it. Over the course of a year or two they “blow” $40,000 on a variety of educational material.
This is just ridiculous since that money has to be earned again to break even, and with only $10,000 left that’s hard yakka. So what I’m getting at is the cost must be in proportion to your overall asset base. In this case, setting a limit of $5,000 for education, say, would be much more appropriate.
Wez.
Onya, Luke. [thumbsupanim]
Wish I’d had your foresight when I was your age. I would have developed a definite plan to do exactly what you are setting out to do. I’m not exactly over the hill yet – early 40s, so I’m doing it a little later in life.
I put it to you that if you were financially secure, you wouldn’t want to go to work! You just told me all the better things you would be doing.
You know, people can be strange. We all love holidays, yet for some reason many can’t contemplate a lifestyle similar to that if they were financially secure. Seems weird to me.
A common question I’ve heard when talking early retirement is, “but what would you do with all that time?” Easy. Enjoy myself by doing anything I want, not because someone told me to (a boss). I generally think people who pose this question must have few hobbies or can’t think of the possibilities.
I say to young people, think ahead to a time when you might hate your job. If that happens, you might want some assets to fall back on so you can walk away from it, rather than feel pressured to stay with something you hate.
Wez.
Lucifer
No, it is yield. The figures are all set out clearly. In fact, the COCR is the final calculation which in many of the examples comes out much higher than the yield, as expected.
Wez.
Kay
When you love cricket as much as I do there’s nothing boring about watching it all season! I haven’t worked in paid employment for a few years and I have rarely been bored. I spend my days researching investments, more so to do with the share market than property. I study books, magazines and any other material I can get. The flexibility to arrange your time any way you want is just brilliant – if anyone else wants to know.
What else do I do to keep active? Play competitive sport, go shopping, catch up with friends, listen to music, watch sport on TV, travel a bit and so on. It may not sound exciting, but it keeps me interested. So no, I don’t sit on the couch all day doing nothing. I definitely stay active.
There is nothing bad about not being in paid employment. I certainly don’t need it for enrichment. In fact, it is so liberating not having to drag myself out of bed every Mon morning to get to work. My greatest fear is if I have to do it again. So I am motivated to doing what I can as an investor to eliminate that possibility. That’s just me – the freedom to make my own choices is the ultimate. If people want to work all their lives, fair enough, they are welcome to it.
Sizzling_duck
Thanks for the tip re umpiring. This idea had actually crossed my mind and I may look into it. You must be a mindreader! I was thinking of heading to Cairns to catch some warmth and some good cricket in July. Will have to check what airfares are available. [strum][shades]
Wez.
Kay
You are one of the lucky ones. I can’t relate to that because my work became drudgery, such that I had to walk away from it. I gave up my profession because I grew to hate it.
The conventional view of life is not mine, e.g. get a good education, work your guts out for 45 years (now longer according to the govt) and then maybe enjoy yourself. Nuh, that blueprint won’t work for me.
It is my goal to ensure that I don’t work all my life because there are many far more interesting things to be doing. Why would I want to be dealing with office politics and bureaucracy everyday if I could be sitting at the cricket instead? The choice is easy. My challenge is to ensure I can make it a reality.
It is often said do what you love. Great, I won’t work, since I hated it. I’d rather watch cricket! However, don’t get me wrong. I have to make money to support myself. I have been self-sufficient for a while investing my money, but at this stage I don’t know whether it is sustainable or not. The past three years has been a far more enriching experience than the workplace I left, which was racked with politics and bureaucracy. [puke]
So even though I’ve bagged Robert Kiyosaki on his motives in other posts, I embrace his philosophy wholeheartedly. I want out of the ratrace.
Wez.
Very interesting and informative to read all the different viewpoints.
“Sydney is flattening and picking up speed.”
However, that is a view that seems at odds with current information, but I’m prepared to be proven wrong.
Wez.
From what I can gather, he already has his next bestseller in the bookshops: Who Stole My Money?
He seems to be pumping out a book per year.He certainly knows how to sell himself. Just think about his board games. He markets them as a package since you can’t play the second one without the board from the first one. Clever. Not only that, but they sell for a price at least 2 – 3 times any other board game. Why? I know, what you’ll learn is so valuable it’s worth it. [wink]
It’s all getting a little tiring and becoming a saga. What is Robert Kiyosaki’s main motive – to help people or make more money for himself? I think the distinction is somewhat blurred.
“1. You can only charge what the market will pay.
2. Value = percieved benefit / priceIn this case the market is obviously paying the price, and they have plenty of people signing up. So, from a business point of view, the price is spot on… maybe even a little low. If people stopped paying, the price would have to come down.”
blowie
I think your view is being a little naive. Many people are falling over themselves to attend these seminars, because they think they are going to be given the key that will unlock all the secrets to wealth. That won’t happen. As a result, they will pay almost anything. Don’t worry, we all go through that stage in our development when we are still “green” but then we move on.
It is fine to be motivated – nothing wrong with that at all. You need it if you expect to have any chance of becoming a successful investor, but it is only a starting point. You need to be able to look back on many years of success (however you define it) before you can say your motivation paid off, i.e. I was motivated to take action and now I can look back and see how successful I’ve become.
I think there are many people who get motivated at various times. Years later they still think they are motivated but nothing has really changed. Are they successful? Motivation is absolutely useless unless backed up with results.
An analogy: many people can’t stick to a gym routine. Why? Because it is too difficult to commit to something that must become a lifestyle. It requires discipline and dedication. Investing is no different. There are no quick fixes, not even from a guru.
Captain Picard
It’s great in a forum like this to be able to get feedback on courses/seminars, so that we can make a judgement on whether to purchase or not. Otherwise we have to take a leap of faith.
The issue of seminar costs has been discussed at length in this forum. To give a bit more perspective re the cost in relation to personal assets: if you are a millionaire, blowing a few thousand on a seminar that turns out to be useless wouldn’t worry you too much. However, if you need this week’s pay to put food on the table, forking out a few thousand for a seminar is a very big deal for you! Based on this, it’s not difficult to understand people reluctant to part with their money when they don’t know what the real value of the course/seminar will be.
So, thanks to all the people who provide useful feedback on course and seminars they have paid for.
Wez.
There have been many good points made in this post. It’s good to see that people have a healthy dose of scepticism, rather than just take everything at face value because someone is supposed to be a guru. This will stand you in good stead so you don’t get ripped off.
Wez.
Absolutely Yack. You evaluate the worth of information on the basis of respect for the person giving it, or what you can do with it. Whether you paid for it or not has nothing to do with its value, e.g. you can get valuable information by reading books from the library. Did you pay for it? Nuh. We need to challenge all these useless cliches that are supposed to be truths.
Don’t take everything as gospel. People shouldn’t be too trusting. I can tell you from personal experience you will be ripped off if you are. Challenge everything in the world of investment before you commit.
Pisces
I don’t buy Robert Kiyosaki’s books anymore. I can get them from the library if I want, so I don’t have to fund his lifestyle. I have said in this and other posts my feelings about him. I have stated I believe he has done a lot of good in motivating us.
Yack made a good point. We often get the tired old line: if we didn’t charge a high price, you wouldn’t value the information. What tripe, but it generally has the desired effect and sucks people in. You see a lot of these lines are designed to play on the insecurities of people and make them sign up or buy a product.
“Tonight only we’ll give you a $1,000 off the price…”
“Rich people are decision-makers, so make a commitment to…”
It’s all subtle (or sometimes in your face) pressure tactics to help you part with your money before you’ve had time to think about it.
It is my goal to bring a sense of reality to all the hype. I’m more into shares than property at this point so have been exposed to a lot of the hype associated with share trading – “we’ll show you how to trade the share market in half an hour each day so you can leave your job forever.” Yeh right, and Father Christmas is a real person!
Steve McKnight’s book has been one of the best I’ve read, mainly because he wrote it without hype. We could do with more of that.
