Forum Replies Created
Why are retirements going to drain the share market? Even in retirement you want your money invested in something other than cash. People don’t just go and cash their Super and park it at the bank.
Explain why there will be a wave of selling.
Wes.
FireCaesar
I’m intrigued by your question. If you have any experience of investments, you’d be aware of returns for different types of fixed interest accounts, and even if you aren’t you can easily find out. Care to elaborate on your thoughts?
Wes.
“Sorry, but the only attention Jenman seeks is for himself, and, more importantly, his systems….. so that he can make more money…..”
Pelican
I’m not judging who’s right and wrong, but considering your statement, what are the seminar providers doing?
Wes.
Invent something. Yes, sounds simple when you say it, but how many people do you reckon make it with their inventions? Many of us have grand notions of becoming a best-selling author, inventing something that captures a huge market or becoming a celebrity with our untapped talent.
No-one should be discouraged from trying to achieve great things beyond the ordinary. However, I am suggesting you need something to fall back on, or you could be in for much hardship and disappointment. Some people really do make it big, but that’s not reality for most of us. I’m sure J K Rowling didn’t set out to create a monster with Harry Potter, but the right time, right place, luck and many other elements came together to catapult her into the big time. If you think you can achieve on a similar scale, go for it, but you might wish to think about the chance it won’t happen.
Having said that, I do believe if you are in a dead-end job, it is in your interests to ultimately get out of it and find something better. That’s what I did.
Wes.
Boris and Elizabeth
Do a search on this sight and I am sure you will find a lot of feedback on Margaret Lomas. Be careful though not to believe everything you read.
I have read Margaret’s books and seen her on TV. Pretty much all this has been positive. I believe she is a woman with a lot of commonsense and very down to earth. Most importantly, she won’t bamboozle you with BS like many other guru seminars will. I would say she sounds very ethical.
Wes.
Yes, very much agree with the last two posts. You must learn the art of investing by putting in the hard yards. There ain’t no shortcuts. Never underestimate the capital required to make either property or share investing a success. The idea you can quit your job and start with nothing is crap and misleading to novice investors. With share investing, don’t think you can come to the game with $20,000 even and make a living. It won’t happen.
loanwolf
Let’s use some logic. You hate your job. Doesn’t that say, either find something you like doing or escape the ratrace, i.e. become financially independent? That is exactly the choice I had to make. I decided to become financially independent as quickly as I could, so I don’t have the burden of going to a workplace I can’t stand just to survive in this world. That is what motivates me everyday.
aussierogue
Yes, you do have to sort the wheat from the chaff. The thing is they are always so convincing and rarely concede there are other possibilities. I feel many people like to be proven right. It is important to them and gives them a warm, fuzzy feeling. In the markets it is unwise to try to prove you are right. It’s akin to trying to control the markets. Can’t be done. Much better to take what the markets give and not look too far into the crystal ball.
By the way, can you let me know some good economists then? Maybe they are in print and I can read their commentaries regularly.
Wes.
Going back a bit in the post…
Credible economist? LOL…don’t, you’re killing me with laughter. That’s the best joke I’ve heard in a while! They are the sort of people who say, “we expect the All Ordinaries Index to be 4356 by the end of the year.” Recently I read an article where a “credible economist” was mapping out the next few years. Wow, I don’t need to do anything other than follow his advice, right? I think not, somehow.
Scaremongering about the future is a great pastime for many, but we can’t take it as Gospel because nobody knows the future. All we can say is that unexpected things will happen at some point, for sure. There will always be changes too.
I am essentially self-sufficient. I hated my job, so I thought I needed to do everything I could to become financially free. I’m not quite there, but investing money is my career and the only career that motivates me. At the moment I do a few months contract work year-to-year to supplement my investments. My view is you only work if you have to, or really want to. There are many other activities to occupy your time. Maybe you love your work – great! I didn’t and am doing what I can to escape the ratrace for good. I hadn’t worked in paid employment for over four years, until the short contract I am doing now. The freedom to make my own choices is brilliant.
To me, your greatest asset is if you can think of a way to escape your job for good. It’s too restrictive.
Wes.
Barbara
Don’t know your experience with shares, but you must do a lot of homework if you are picking them yourself. They must be actively managed. Don’t listen to rubbish like “buy and hold for the long term”. If a share turns sour, you need to jettison it from your portfolio. Don’t argue with the market, irrespective of what some “eggspurt” is telling you about a share’s prospects.
So-called blue chips are overrated in my opinion. People think of the likes of Newscorp, the banks, Telstra, etc. Don’t hold your breath waiting for them to perform. Check what they’ve done in the past 4 – 5 years – next to nothing. How long does a man wait? So you need to research better prospects, typically smaller companies that are in a growth phase.
Don’t pick shares by reading the newspaper either.
I prefer shares to property for their versatility, and you don’t need to part with an arm and a leg to buy a reasonable portfolio. Having said that, I’m not against property at all, just that I’m more suited to shares.
Wes.
Greg
I had just drafted a long reply and there was some stuff-up and it was all lost! Brilliant! [angry2]
I can’t type it again at this stage.
The guts of it was to say I could give you some advice re the share market and managed funds – cut through a lot of the BS and hype which invariably crops up in ads and other print.
If so you might want to get in touch over the phone initially. If you are anywhere near the Brisbane area we could even meet up. I don’t mind in the least – always willing to talk investments.
Wes.
Greg
Just to add a bit re shares and managed funds…
I have spent the past three years studying the share market. I have read many books and done much of my own trial and error. A few things stand out from my experience:
The best teacher is your own trial and error. You can do that in the share market without taking huge risks.
There is absolutely no magic in trading/investing in shares. There are strategies and techniques, but no secrets in making money. Do not get lured by expensive options seminars. They have nothing to tell you that you can’t get from a book. Options are dangerous for the inexperienced.
Anyone who tells you share trading or investing is easy is a BS artist – no question of it. Tell them to show you their tax returns.
There is so much crap information promoted by so-called experts, it’s unbelievable. And I’m talking well known financial institutions and people. A lot of it is a bit of a con or telling you to rely on blind faith. Nope, that won’t work.
Wealth accumulation will not happen by accident, which in essence is what we are led to believe – invest in blue chips and hold for the long term – that’s not necessarily a recipe for success.
I believe in the share market and continue to pursue it because I believe it offers a way to accumulate wealth over the long term. But there’s nothing easy about doing that.
I think if you could somehow find an experienced mentor it can help you along the way, but nothing can replace your own experience. Mentors can be people in print – doesn’t have to be face to face.
Wes.
This is not a plug for Jamie, but I will add to what Pelican said…
Don’t think regulatory authorities such as ASIC, Fair Trading, etc. are Gods. They fail the general public in the most basic ways. If you have a small claim they are not interested. The big end of town is all they are after. What this means to an individual is you might have been scammed of thousands of dollars – very important to you, but ASIC will tend to think it is chickenfeed and not worth wasting time on.
They have a few lines they fall back on:
“Sorry it’s not our problem,” as they handball it to someone else.
“We are under-resourced.”
Really, how much value is being added by the many “regulatory authorities”? An investigation into their activities wouldn’t go astray.
We did get off topic there for a while.
Brenda, you make some good points re expenses, prep and so on. However, I reiterate we need to drop this idea that information has to be expensive to be worth anything.
Following are some quotes from Alexander Elder directed to share traders, but they could apply equally to property investors. He is highly respected in the field of share trading.
“My second rule is to avoid very expensive services, be they books, advisory letters, or seminars. A $200 newsletter is likely to be a better value than a $2,000 one, and a $500 seminar a better value than a $5,000 one. Merchants of super-expensive products sell an implicit promise of “the keys to the kingdom.”
“An obscene price is a marketing gimmick that conveys a subliminal message that the service is magic. There is no magic – no-one can deliver on that promise. A relatively inexpensive service is a bargain when it’s good, and a cheap loss when it isn’t.”
“People want to believe in magic, and if that magic can also save them from working and thinking, they gladly pay good money for it.”This is well put. Having spent time in share trading circles I know this to be the case. I have seen it in action.
Wez.
Marc
Thanks for blowing everything out of proportion.[confused2]
Anyone with any objectivity can see what you infer is nowhere near what I said. You have really put your own spin on it.
But if you want to believe it is realistic to run 100 metres in 8.9 secs, you’ll be in for a long wait to see that come to fruition. I suppose that makes me a killjoy for believing it will never happen?
Wez.
Lucifer
Seems you want to be a billionaire since you are talking on the Bill Gates level. Take a dose of reality. It’s not going to happen. And before you get all uptight, don’t take it the wrong way. You have the power to create wealth – no question of it. Yes, we all have big dreams, but a certain amount of realism helps us to be sensible about what we can achieve.
Being a billionaire is akin to being one of the best sportsmen, actors or singers in the world. How many achieve that? They are a select few. You don’t have to be one of them to achieve good things. You can continue to aspire to be very, very rich, but I suggest you are setting yourself up for disappointment. Of course, there is a slight chance you may turn out to be another Bill Gates – that’s possible.
You are right though. I don’t need more and more to satisfy an insatiable need to be as rich as I can. A sustainable level of wealth to live a lifestyle to suit me is all I need.
Greed is good? You may want to check out the movie “Wall Street” from 1987 if you haven’t already seen it.
Wez.
Never did I say people earning over $100,000 per year were bad. Some are reading too much into what I have said. The guts of what I’m saying is about sustainability, taking care of your own needs and helping others, i.e. living a plentiful life where you can do what you want, when you want and maximising the enjoyment in your life.
Let’s bump it up a bit then. Could you sustainably live on $300,000 per year and achieve all you want? Or do you really need $100 million in your life to do everything you want? I think $100 million to the average person is a little bit excessive and not really required to achieve everything they want in life. I guess I could be still way off the mark.
Wez.
Marc
Yes, $350 for 15 minutes appears way overpaid. However, if your wife is in the business of saving lives then what price can you put on that? As Kay said there are many overpaid people in the world – sportsmen, actors and so on. I believe workers who are dealing with saving people’s lives should be some of the highest paid, but unfortunately that rarely appears to be the case – firefighters, surgeons, nurses, etc.
Why would a presenter not be satisfied with grossing $300,000 per year, say? 99% of the population would kill for a return like that. Once you take care of living expenses and can afford to buy luxuries, travel and so on, why is there a need to keep making more and more?
To me there is some sort of threshhold where beyond that you don’t really need the money. For example if I had $1 million net, I know that I could make that grow for the rest of my life in a sustainable manner, without needing to create an empire of hundreds of millions of dollars. An income of $50,000 to $100,000 per year would do me just fine because I know that could achieve everything I want with some to spare.
I want to be financially independent through investment, but it doesn’t have to be to the point where I want more and more – just sustainable so I can take care of my needs and help others.
Wez.
Lucifer
Thanks for your comments and benefit of your experience.
Brenda
RK does talk about switching to hedge funds at a point in the cycle. But the idea of switching to catch different cycles is more difficult than it sounds. Wouldn’t we all like to be moving our money at just the right time to catch each wave!
I have had investments in hedge funds for seven years now. My experience has generally been good. They performed very well through the 2001/02 bear market period, but the last year hasn’t been a good one for them. So the point I make is switching to a hedge fund won’t necessarily provide strong returns. Most importantly you have to find a good hedge fund. Like other managed funds, some managers are good and others are poor.
Wez.
Pelican
Good point about giving a breakdown of costs and profit when running a seminar – maybe presenters could pick up on this.
Kay
I agree that books can say just as much and probably more than a seminar, at much less damage to our bank balance. As I said there are no secrets. That’s just marketing tripe from presenters to suck us in.
Anyone
I’m still not getting a sound reason why the scenario is:
100 x $5,000 = $500,000 less a few expenses = helluva lot of money for a few days work. $500,000 x 6 (per year) = $3,000,000 = very healthy return for the year for what amounts to a grand total of maybe 12 days in presentations. Why would you bother investing? Of course, you always need somewhere to channel the profits.
Why not 100 x $500 = $50,000 leading to $300,000 gross per year? Is that not a huge year by charging a more reasonable price for seminars?
If you still think expensive seminars are a must, I suggest you need to rethink. Maybe you are new to the world of investment or a bit “green” in general. This is not meant as an insult. I have been there (when I thought like that), but if we continue falling over ourselves in throwing money at all these presenters, they continue laughing all the way to the bank.
Think about different ways to get your education. If you do your research and you really think a seminar will be valuable, fine. But don’t continually run from one to the next thinking you will find some brilliant new secret. I will continue alerting people about expensive seminars because I don’t believe the motives are always pure.
Wez.
