Forum Replies Created
Well Dr.X, get ready for lots of hugging, high fives, back/neck massaging and chicken dancing! Don’t forget Fact or Crap, the game.
Yes, it was the “Breakthrough to Success” weekend and I had a free ticket. I thought it couldn’t hurt to go along and see what it was all about. What I was getting at with NLP is what is the objective? How is it supposed to work? Maybe I should do some further research since this was my initial exposure.
Interesting that someone mentioned fans getting excited at the football. Sport is one thing I can get hyped up about. I really get involved in sports I watch or participate in if it is exciting or I am playing a crucial match. Trying to create a sense of excitement from nothing at one of these seminars really doesn’t work for me.
The presenter stated at one point “this stuff works – no question” or words to that effect. Hmmmm. Maybe. Who can tell? If you start a gym program and do it properly, that works for sure. You will see the evidence. Of course, if you say to believers NLP doesn’t work, they can always say you didn’t apply it effectively.
Did I get anything from the course? I think you always get something – maybe a few new ideas, a bit of motivation to make changes for the better, meet some people and so on. Well, also when he says to collect 10 hugs it is a good opportunity to select a few cuddly ladies to hug! That’s a bonus.
Good point Redwing. These are my thoughts also. I figured why bother chasing big money in management positions with all the stress, when I can make very good money doing routine work. I then had to educate myself to invest wisely to make the best of it. Anyone who wants the “glory” of climbing the corporate ladder, go for it, but there are better ways to live a more relaxed life and build wealth at the same time.
Melbdude
Believe me, there is big money working in the mining industry compared to many jobs elsewhere. I am not greedy and still consider that $60k+ is pretty good. You can get this being unskilled in mining. Having said that, trawling the usual sources of advertised jobs is probably not the way to find them.
It’s the old story – not what you know, but who you know, i.e. having a contact in the industry. If you don’t have that, registration with an employment agency that specialises in mining would be a good way to go. I was working with a guy recently who owns a winery, but he still likes to supplement earnings with paid employment. He said he just goes to one of the agencies and they always find him something. So, to get into the loop initially may require a bit of persistence, but has it ever been any different.
As someone once said to me, “no good having the most interesting job in the world if it doesn’t pay the bills.”
I’m pragmatic and with the ones who go for the money. Look, why work a whole year for $30k in the city? What a waste of effort.
WealthyJay said he dumbed down his job as an industrial chemist and went for the money. So did I. I was/am a chemist also. I’ll be a “dog’s body” doing dead-boring routine work for high pay – no problem. Why, you might ask? Because I have a plan. Make my money and invest wisely so I can tell all employers where to go. There are many more exciting things to do in life than have my nose to the grindstone for the rest of my life.
It’s funny really. I spent many years developing my career, looking for the chance to rise to higher levels. Of course, stress came along for the ride. Then I walked away – without any job to go to. For four years I never worked while I studied the share market to get a grip on how to make money from it. I went through many emotions as I felt I still needed to be working. Anyhow last year a mate got me a contract job at his mine site. This is what I had been searching for! Routine work on high pay – absolutely STRESS FREE. I only work when they need me, so it’s not fulltime. It’s a beautiful arrangement – work a few months and take six months off, whatever.
The contract work supplements my investments nicely, since that is my main focus. Worked four months last financial year and grossed $46k which includes investment earnings, not to mention growth on those investments.
Contract work on a FIFO is not for everyone, but it is part of my ticket to financial freedom in the not-too-distant future.
My advice to you if you live in the city and you feel like you are in a rut financially…
Go to the employment agencies who specialise in the miners. See if you can get work as an unskilled labourer. You will make good money. Mining is booming and there is no shortage of work. Fly-in, fly-out is a different way of life, but the good thing is you get to live where you want on your time off. Take a chance.
Wes.
Well put, Don and Liz.
In my book, hype has no place in anything, let alone investing. The ability to motivate people without hype is the way to go. It is only natural novice investors get hyped and all excited about the big things they are going to achieve. The fact remains that a lot won’t and a few will. The key is to do everything possible to make yourself one of the few. We have all been hyped and at a later stage seen reality. You learn more when reality hits and you get rid of the fluff.
I have a friend who is in “love” with a particular share. He has made money from it, but I try to impress on him that it is not the only share he will ever own if he wants to create long term wealth. So far he has traded in and out of it a few times and done OK. The thing is, there will come a time when his strategy won’t work. The share market will give him a jolt and he will see the reality.
When you haven’t seen failure and have had some success, you can start to believe you are a genius. That is fatal in the share market.
Dazzling
Agree with you. Financial advisers are qualified to develop financial plans and so on. But my beef with them is: What do they REALLY know about the art of investment? In my opinion, not a lot because they are like lemmings and just fall into line with all the rest, instead of doing something different.
Having said that, you must have controls in the system. Otherwise you end up with a lawless rabble where scammers run rampant. That’s the problem. But to me the best advice is what you can get from older, wiser people who have seen all market cycles and have “runs” on the board.
Many financial advisers seem to think all you have to do is invest at anytime, diversify, put your feet up and let time do its work. Crap. That seems to be the limit of their investment knowledge. If it was that easy we would all be rolling in money. Nope, it takes a little more brainpower than that.
It is funny (strange) how most bits of financial info are always qualified with: you should always seek advice from your financial adviser before making a decision. What adviser? I don’t have one. I pull the strings! Why can’t they say: if you haven’t a clue about what you’re doing, THEN you MAY want to seek advice from a financial adviser (if you want to take your chances picking the right one)?
Wes.
It’s interesting that the contract work I am doing now to get me through to financial independence is autopilot stuff, i.e. could do it with my eyes closed almost and is very repetitive. But that’s OK, because that is just the way I like it. No stress and get paid what I consider to be a very adequate hourly rate.
See, I decided some years ago that this idea of climbing the ladder into management to get paid a higher salary had knobs on it. I thought, why bother stressing myself out and getting caught up in all the crap that goes with it. That’s when I knew my career was behind me and could focus on important stuff – like becoming financially free and never having to rely on an employer again.
I am very happy with my decision knowing that contract work is only a means to an end. I never lose my focus. My career is now that of private investor which has been far more interesting and rewarding than my previous career.
My perspective on financial independence:
Paid work in some respects does have advantages – every week you know what you get to take home and the risk is taken by your employer. Can you say that about your own business? No. These are the trade-offs when we make our choices. Having said that, the disadvantages in paid work can make a life of financial freedom worth fighting for – office politics, working for a boss you don’t like, doing work you don’t want to do, being in a regimented job where you must turn up every day of the week. All that stuff makes it very restrictive. That’s why my focus is firmly on attaining financial independence.
In looking to achieve my goal, I considered a number of different options – franchises, investing and working harder to make money quicker. I formulated a few ideas:
Critical mass and
Path of Least ResistanceWhat this simply means is how can I generate an ongoing income to live on with the least amount of pain. The critical mass is the asset that supplies the income. To achieve it I want the simplest way/idea.
I decided to forget franchises as the time and effort was too much of a burden. I went the path of investing combined with some contract work to feed my investment program. I only have to work around 4 months of the year to keep this snowballing. This gives me plenty of flexibility to research and make my investments, not to mention enjoy myself doing other more interesting things than working.
I am now in a position where I see myself completely financially independent within the next five years. Yahooooooo!
My investments of choice are essentially share market related, but may include property at a later time. I have set myself the challenge to show this can be done via the share market route and that property is not the only way.
Wes.
Good replies. I hope inexperienced people thinking of parting with thousands for a “miracle cure” seminar are reading and taking it in.
We should not encourage people to think they have to spend thousands on “wealth” seminars to gain their knowledge. The overhyped ads play on people’s emotions and are highly influential, indicating wealth will follow almost automatically.
We should not encourage seminar presenters in charging thousands and say, “good on you if you can get away with it.” This sends a bad message to greedy presenters, who then know the system supports their activities and they can milk it for all it’s worth. It plays right into their hands.
Marc
You might be referring to some of my comments in your reply. If so, you are taking me out of context. Let’s put a few things straight.
There are guarantees that aren’t worth the paper they’re written on because they don’t get honoured. I have experienced this personally. Therefore, I would say some guarantees are marketing ploys (as you show with the definition).
At no stage have I ever indicated creating wealth is bad and I don’t think others visiting this site see it that way either. Afterall, it is one of my main goals in life.
Who said seminar presenters should have a philanthropic aim? I didn’t. That is often the presenter’s own claim. Tell me they don’t do a hard sell, e.g. “I’ll show you how to create money out of thin air and leave your job in the next 90 days.”
Give me good reasons why a two-day seminar/educational course is appropriately priced at $5,000, say, as opposed to $500. Don’t you think it is a little greedy to milk that much per person? I forgot. It is all the “secrets” we get to learn. That line is getting very tiring. Is it fair and reasonable for a presenter to gross $500,000 for two days of instruction that is readily available for nothing in a library?
I don’t see all seminars as scams. Some presenters are more honest than others. I have no doubt there is some sound education to be gained. However, there are no secrets and it shouldn’t cost a fortune to attain this information. Strategies presented have probably worked for someone at some time. But to present risky strategies that work occasionally under the right conditions as being the norm is a bit deceptive. Should the fact that someone implemented a risky strategy and it paid off be a reason to promote it as a valid means to create wealth? I doubt it.
Just to round out the current discussion, here is an example I can relate to:
Since I understand the mechanics of trading options, I could put together a seminar including all the glossy hype to suck people in. I charge participants $5,000 a head and get conservatively 100 to turn up. I walk away with $500,000 gross less some expenses – still a very tidy sum for a few days standing in front of a white board.
I have never traded an option in my life, but I know how they work. Knowing how options work and making money trading them are worlds apart. Still, I could make a heap of money training people to trade them. Now, let’s be honest, do you think this would be an honest way for me to make an exorbitant amount of money quickly?
There is one vital ingredient I forgot to mention. I lack the bravado and my ethics would not allow me to pull it off. Many presenters have bravado in spades and don’t mind compromising their ethics. Again, all presenters are not like this, before you get the wrong idea.
Marc, you should read the other post in this forum reviewing Ed Burton. Another sourpuss, or could there be an element of truth?
Wes.
Thanks Cruiser, for letting us know of your real life experience. So now we are getting a much clearer picture of Ed Burton’s wealth education and motives. Not so rosy I’d say.
Kerwyn
So, a day and a half would be plenty of time to implement and test the strategies? How many people do you think would be too intimidated to ask for their money back? Some of the wording in these guarantees would make it difficult to get your money back. Do you think that when someone asks for their money back it is granted no questions asked?
OK, so five people…ten people maybe ask for their money back and it is granted. That’s five or ten out of a few hundred probably. Net profit from the seminar still stacks up very nicely.
Things are not always as they seem. Promising a money back guarantee is a marketing ploy to get people in, because it makes people think they have absolutely nothing to lose. If the seminar presenter rejects your claim, go to ASIC or OFT and see if they will help you. Not likely. Anyone who has had anything to do with these toothless tigers knows they are useless.
Let’s be really conservative and say there are only 100 members, which means $28,000/month. Not bad money in anyone’s language. Ed is just another philanthropic seminar presenter who doesn’t need the money.
Surely, even if you are a supporter of expensive wealth education, this must make you wonder just a little bit as to some of the motives.
Marc
Please check your mailbox. I have sent a personal email.
Wes.
I have noticed this post pretty late, seeing it was done back in 2003, but just wanted to congratulate Oz on his/her detailed analysis on one of Ed Burton’s seminars. This can really help us in making a decision whether to attend or not.
Ed reckons he doesn’t need the money. Give us a break. When you look at the money he is making from educational materials it’s obvious he is raking it in. $280/month to be a member of his Gold Mentor program? Gee, that must include some pretty high powered stuff.
This is one of the biggest issues with wealth seminar presenters. Why can’t they just come out and say, “I am in the business of selling education (at exorbitant prices) and that’s how I generate a lot of my income to enable me to fund further investments.” Look, I may not agree with them, but at least they will have my respect for being honest. It is one of the most basic human traits we all value – honesty.
No, it ain’t that simple. Like a lot of things it sounds simple. For example, many ads claim that share trading can easily be learnt. Absolute rubbish. Share trading requires tremendous skill and years of learning to even have any hope of success. Success in the share market doesn’t automatically follow from years of hard work, sorry to say. People can dream though.
Re wealth seminars, please sit for a moment and think of young people just starting out in life, and imagine how they can easily be seduced by wild claims about becoming rich. Remember how “green” you were at that age. Have you always immediately recognised scams or overstated claims? Many others also are not worldly enough to instantly recognise these things. They may be innocently trying to better themselves without knowing exactly what they are getting into.
Yes, we have to educate ourselves and be vigilant. But let’s not endorse all seminar presenters as being squeaky clean and noble in their goals to educate us. Anyone raking in thousands per head for a few days is definitely making a lot of money, irrespective of whether they are successful investors or not.
Many wealth seminar presenters manipulate their audience for their own gain. I have been there to see it (at introductory presentations) and you hear the old lines trotted out all the time. I can see how it is very persuasive to people not in the know. Before you know it they’ve parted with thousands they can’t afford. I don’t see this as acceptable practice. I am not saying all presenters have the same motives; some may be genuine and others aren’t.
“philanthropist seminar presenter” I like it! Maybe this could be adopted as general terminology in future discussions.
Philanthropist seminar presenter = “I don’t need the money. I just want to help people become wealthy, but I’ll still charge you thousands to discover my “secrets”. I am obligated to charge thousands because you won’t value the information otherwise.” What a load of tripe.
Many people have been sucked in in the past, but I think with forums like this everyone is becoming more educated and aware of the promotional hype that goes on. And even though seminar presentations have been debated at length, hopefully they will be discussed further to give people better perspective.
Nigel
Show people that you are a successful property investor in your own right by giving evidence of your portfolio. Show people how much you stand to make from the education, and that you don’t need the money to fund your investment program. Tell people exactly why you are doing this. If you feel this is too much of an ask, then I suggest your motives may not be all in the name of education.
I am not suggesting any seminars are scams, but I throw out the challenge to all presenters to prove their worth as indicated above. What is your motivation? Tell us the truth. Maybe it is to make money from seminars; maybe not. Tell us the truth and we will respect you more.
Wes.
Hello Marvin
No, it doesn’t cost anything to join and as far as I know you just turn up at a meeting. You don’t need a sponsor. That was my first contact, via a newspaper ad. I am from the Toowoomba area myself. I have only been to one meeting at this stage, but intend to go to more.
Wes.
FireCaesar
I suspected you have no experience based on your question, but had the feeling you were brewing something. The other poster is indicating a pyramid scheme. Be very careful if you are into anything like that. You will come a gutser. Maybe you are young and think you have found the Holy Grail. I can assure you, you haven’t, so think again.
Wes.
