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  • Profile photo of wayneLwayneL
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    Originally posted by Nat R:

    I also have a porblem with what he pushes…if some poor sod thinks they can beat the options market after doing a weekend course then they are a chicken walking into KFC.

    Having already plucked itself and brought along an axe, chopping block and ingredients for the stuffing. HAHA

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    Originally posted by Techno:

    No, I do not see a recession yet, for the rest of this year (but I could be wrong).

    I agree with you Techno, It won’t begin this year. Sentiment is still very strong for the reasons you rightly point out.

    I’m looking further down the track. Maybe not even 2006, I don’t know. But the UK is already starting to fray around the edges. The US has problems that are being solved purely by injections of liqidity.

    When it comes, I think it could be a doosie.

    In one sense I sincerely hope I’m wrong, because a lot of good people will suffer. But in another sense, I think it is necessary to correct the inbalances of a lot of peoples thinking.

    Either way, only time will tell. I just hope people recognise the possibility and arrange for that contingency.

    Cheers

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    Good posts all.

    Can anybody smell a recession coming on?

    Cheers

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    It’s a view that’s gaining momentum around the world.

    I have always thought it a strong possibility and have organised my affairs for that contingency.

    Cheers

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    Getting to the bottom of this is actually quite difficult as the Fed is a private corporation as are the various district reserves, and not subject to the reporting of major shareholders like a public company. They are ideed registered as private corporations though.

    On the one hand there are the sneering and satirical mainstreamers who selectively believe what is either comforting/expedient to believe. Faux mirth is one particularly despicable tactic used by these folk.

    On the other, there are the histerical and sometimes delusional conspiricy theorists whos fanciful constructs are sometimes worthy of derision.

    Neither seem to be in posession of, nor interested in the actual truth.

    But one credible reference I managed to find is this:

    In the 1982 case, Lewis v. United States, the Ninth Circuit Federal Court of Appeals stated that the “Federal reserve banks are not federal instrumentalities for purposes of a Federal Torts Claims Act, but are independent, privately owned and locally controlled corporations.”

    Even the Feds own site is rather ambiguous, :

    Are the Federal Reserve Banks private companies?

    The Federal Reserve Banks, created by an act of Congress in 1913, are operated in the public interest rather than for profit or to benefit any private group.

    Commercial banks that are members of the Federal Reserve System hold stock in the Reserve Bank in their region, but they do not exercise control over the Reserve Bank or the Federal Reserve System. Holding stock in a regional Reserve Bank does not carry with it the kind of control and financial interest that holding publicly traded stock affords, and the stock may not be sold or traded. Member banks do, however, receive a fixed 6 percent dividend annually on their stock and elect six of the nine members of the Reserve Bank’s board of directors.

    Although they are set up like private corporations and member banks hold their stock, the Federal Reserve Banks owe their existence to an act of Congress and have a mandate to serve the public. Therefore, they are not really “private” companies, but rather are “owned” by the citizens of the United States.

    That last sentence is a bit of a stretch for mine.

    Although it is clear they are a private corporation, it is equally clear they don’t operate in the same sense as say, Ebay.

    Somewhere in between the two ludicrous extremes above, lies the truth.

    Cheers

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    Originally posted by Nat R:

    Wayne L…the group of banks that control (but don’t own) the Fed are essenatilly the reserve banks of the various US districts which in turn are owned by the Goverment. Anything else you hear is pure rubbish being pedalled by morons (see below) :)

    Redtim: your comments aren’t even worth answering.

    This is something I’d like to clear up. Do you have any links to support what you say?

    Meanwhile, I’ll do some more research as well and see what I can find.

    Cheers

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    Originally posted by Nat R:

    Here is the home page from the first link you have posted…seriously, how much dope does one person have to smoke before they start to believe this crap??

    http://www.relfe.com/index.html

    As for the 2nd link…the person who wrote that bullsh1t should refrain from drinking the bong water…it is absolute fiction and a waste of internet bandwith.

    Word of advice…..anybody who believes one word of this drivel should serioulsy see a doctor or mental health expert…you need help….I’m not kidding.

    I don’t know about the scope of the information in those links…I didn’t read very far into them .

    But the US Federal Reserve is a privately owned company registered in the state of Delaware.

    Effectivly, the shareholders of the Fed (a conglomerate of banks essentially) exert substantial control over the US economy (and by default, a substantial proportion of the world economy)

    As to the plethora of conspiracy theories associated with this fact, they remain to be seen…but weird things are coming out of the US at the moment; e.g. downing street memo, patriot act, etc

    No moonshine, no myths, just the facts ma’am

    Cheers

    PS I don’t smoke dope.

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    Originally posted by westan:

    Hi steve

    My comments are slightly off the topic but here they are.
    i “retired” in 2003 when i was 39 years old, thanks to the rise in the property markets in OZ and NZ. My retirement plan was to move to NZ for a year to enjoy the beautiful country and dabble in the property market, at the same time i wanted to use this time to work out what God wanted me to do with the next phase of my life.

    When you don’t work you need to fill your time in somehow. For me i’m helping with things at my local church and I ended up stating up a business that at some times is like a full time job and at others gives me the flexability to do as i please (i just returned from a 8 week family holiday to the USA). The great thing is i don’t have to do it. I could never imagine working for someone else again, in fact i’ve had dreams where i’ve had to (yuk).

    I don’t like the idea of “retirement”, the concept of sitting around doing nothing is a complete waste of existence, surely we are on this planet for something more than to live a life of self luxury.

    regards westan

    We find cash positive deals showing 15-25% Returns in the USA email me at [email protected] to join our database

    Lovely post Westan, especially your last paragraph.

    1/ 43

    2/ I “retired” at 38 and just play the markets now. Is taht retirement? Dunno as i still am at the computer every day, but have freedom to do what I want when i went, similar to Weston.

    3/ Financially free? Not sure if I’m that yet, as I still need to actively trade soas not to whittle down my capital/ or be forced to live a little “too” frugally; hence my question as to whether I’m really retired.

    But also, like Weston, looking to what God has planned for us next. I get the feeling it ain’t where we are, but destination as yet unknown.

    Any suggestions? NZ? Europe?

    Cheers

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    Agree with dazzling.

    I don’t shirk away from telling people what I do. Only a few people view traders as inveterate gamblers, but most are genuinely interested and great conversation develops.

    Go ahead and tell ’em.

    Cheers

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    Originally posted by westan:

    Hi Wayne and Bardon

    i have just come home from 8 weeks in the USA, this was my 3rd trip in 6 months. One thing that really stands out to me is the diversity of prices in the USA. There are cities on the west coast like LA which are really high as are New York City and many of the East coast cities. Yet there are other areas where affordability is still very much apparent. At the top end I was looking at some RealEstate in Huntington Beach LA Califonia that was more like Sydney Prices, new condo’s (luxury) for about $500,000. House prices are about $1 million. Yet at the other end i saw many properties under $50,000, (not in California).

    Regards westan

    We find cash positive deals showing 15-25% Returns in the USA email me at [email protected] to join our database

    Yes, a friend of mines bro in law recently purchased 7acres with house, bore, various outbuildings etc in Oklahoma for $30k (yes 30k, not a typo)

    Cheers

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    Originally posted by uforia:

    Sorry bit off topic and not sure where to post this, but thought you guys would know. What is a good beginners guide to trading shares? But not just a beginners guide but also covers more advanced things, taxes, Australian etc.

    Sort of like a all-in-one handbook about shares eg. The Property Investors Handbook which I found very easy to read and covered alot of things not just the basics….

    Thanks :)

    An article I wrote for people in your position:

    http://www.vw-organics.com/waynel_getting%20started.htm

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    First Greedscam, then Volkers, now the third Federal Reserve Governor, Donald Kohn, has come out with warnings…

    http://www.reuters.com/financeQuoteCompanyNewsArticle.jhtml?duid=mtfh70746_2005-06-15_12-35-26_wat003272_newsml

    “The risk of rapid adjustments and unusual configurations of asset price movements is higher than normal,” he said in remarks to be delivered in New York. A copy of the speech was made available in Washington.

    Kohn’s comments echo stepped-up warnings from Fed officials, including Chairman Alan Greenspan in recent weeks, that a swift rise in U.S. real estate values may not last and may have led to speculative behavior and risky lending practices….

    Cheers

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    June 12, 2005 Real Estate, the Global Obsession By STEVE LOHR

    THE housing market in California may look like a textbook case of superheated “irrational exuberance,” but then how does one explain Spain?

    Home prices there have risen 130 percent since 1997, twice the run-up in the United States.

    These days, house price vertigo is more than a local or national condition. It’s a worldwide phenomenon.

    The American housing boom in recent years is nothing compared with the price run-up in countries like France, Spain, Britain, Ireland, Sweden and Australia, even though markets in Australia and Britain have cooled in the last year.

    Million-dollar two-bedroom apartments are not only a fixture of New York, but of London, Paris and Hong Kong. In New Zealand, housing prices rose by more than 16 percent from 2003 to 2004. In Ireland, they rose more than 10 percent in that period.

    The rise in prices is worrisome, because the international housing boom is a byproduct of globalization. A house on a plot of ground is the most local of assets. But the financial markets that make it possible for people to borrow money to buy a house, or speculate, are increasingly open, international and linked.

    Interest rate policies in the industrialized world tend to move in lockstep, usually led by the United States. A growing community of affluent professionals around the world now buy second homes and invest in housing abroad.

    The economic links act as a self-reinforcing network that has fueled the global surge in house prices but would also likely magnify the pain on the way down. The ripples would extend well beyond the housing markets. A fall in American house prices, for example, would crimp consumer spending – and free-spending Americans have supported growth in many export-minded nations, notably China.

    “The real concern is that the housing boom extends across so many countries this time,” said Susan M. Wachter, a professor of real estate at the Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania. “That just raises the stakes, and the risk, when the music stops.”

    The global surge in house prices is a boom by design, largely manufactured by the world’s central banks, led by the Federal Reserve. And it was done for good reason. Faced with a falling stock market and the collapse of the high-tech bubble, the Fed cut interest rates sharply in 2000 to try to limit the damage to the American economy and its trading partners.

    Other central banks, like the European Central Bank, quickly followed the Fed’s lead. Higher government spending and tax cuts were also part of the formula.

    Cheap credit worldwide fueled the housing market, making mortgage payments less costly. Homeowners refinanced their mortgages at lower rates, and the savings went into consumer spending. They took out home-equity loans on houses of rising value, and spent that borrowed money on cars, clothes, furniture, restaurant meals and vacations. The higher consumer spending and the soaring value of the home nest-egg have kept the global economy chugging along.

    “The Fed and other central banks encouraged this boom so that the wealth lost in the stock market was replaced by housing,” said John Llewellyn, the global chief economist at Lehman Brothers in London. “And the housing boom has stimulated demand around the world.”

    The biggest globalization lift in house prices has been in what urban economists call “primate cities.” These are the places where the world’s well-off want to live or visit regularly for business or culture like London, Paris, New York, Boston, Shanghai, San Francisco, Miami, Sydney and Vancouver.

    They are the most cosmopolitan of locales, often coastal cities and tourist hubs. They experienced the largest spikes in housing prices and pull up the national averages, while inland cities lag – the tourist coast of Spain outpaces Madrid, San Francisco outdoes Milwaukee.

    Hitching the world economy to the housing market has worked well for policy makers so far. But it probably can’t continue. House prices in general are continuing to rise both in the United States and abroad, as speculative buying and interest-only mortgages are proliferating.

    “Much of Europe is like the United States, with roaring increases in housing prices,” noted Michael Bell, a real estate economist at the University of Reading, in Britain. “The boom must be peaking soon. It just can’t keep going up.”

    The looming, unanswered question for the global economy is whether the housing boom will cool down in an orderly way over the next few years or end in a bust. The preferred path would be for interest rates to rise steadily but moderately, slowing the pace of house price increases and forcing consumers to save more.

    This is what the Federal Reserve and some other central banks, like the Bank of England and the Reserve Bank of Australia, have tried to do. The hope is that increased business investment would pick up the slack as housing markets worldwide calm down.

    But the European Central Bank is contemplating lowering, not raising, interest rates. It is more concerned with slow economic growth, especially in large economies, like Germany’s – where housing prices aren’t skyrocketing – than smaller, hot economies like Spain’s.

    The peril is that conflicting policies could conspire against an orderly retreat. And any trouble would come at a time when policy makers, especially in the United States, have fewer options than in the past.

    The huge American federal deficit, trade deficit and minuscule savings rate mean the United States borrows about $5 billion a day mostly from foreigners, whose purchases of mortgage-backed bonds have helped keep mortgage rates low.

    If house prices drop and American consumers are forced to tighten their belts, buying fewer imports, China and other nations would have to slow their dollar investment spree, driving interest rates higher and higher. That could smack housing markets from Paris to Shanghai to Auckland.

    C. Fred Bergsten, director of the Institute for International Economics in Washington, says the overheated global housing market is cause for concern. Yet the larger danger, he said, would be if it combined with another economic jolt, like an abrupt rise in oil prices, which would increase inflation and interest rates.

    “That would burst the housing bubble, and be a very serious hit to the world economy,” Mr. Bergsten said.

    In a recently published paper, Thomas F. Helbling, an economist at the International Monetary Fund, studied 75 housing price cycles in 14 industrialized countries from 1970 to 2002. He found that not every boom is followed by a bust, but booms often are signs of possible trouble.

    So applying Mr. Helbling’s historical standard for booms to today’s housing markets makes for nervous reading.

    The housing markets in France, Spain and New Zealand have already boomed, according to Mr. Helbling’s definition – that inflation-adjusted prices have increased 19 percent or more over the last two years. And prices in the Scandinavian countries, Italy, Ireland and the United States are nearing that level.

    All these countries must be looking anxiously to Britain and Australia, where prices have peaked, and the question is whether they will experience a bust.

    History and common sense, of course, teach that sooner or later, economic gravity will return to house prices, either gradually or swiftly, soft landing or meltdown.

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    More grist for the mill…..

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2005/06/14/cnrics14.xml&menuId=242&sSheet=/money/2005/06/14/ixcity.html

    RICS sparks fear of housing crash
    By Malcolm Moore, Economics Correspondent (Filed: 14/06/2005)

    Almost half the country’s chartered surveyors reported that house prices were falling in May, the highest total since the recession of 1992.

    The Royal Institute of Chartered Surveyors will say today that the number of its members reporting price falls has grown sharply – from 37pc in March to 40pc in April to 49pc last month.

    The news will spark fears of a house price crash. In the early 1990s, RICS was the first housing market surveyor to predict the market’s collapse.

    In the latest report, the institute says new buyer inquiries had slipped and the number of completed sales had fallen by 29pc since last May.

    Jeremy Leaf, a chartered surveyor and spokesman for RICS, said: “The number did worry me because I am a practising chartered surveyor and from a personal perspective we have seen a little bit of a bounce back. Still, this is what people are reporting.”

    He said there was now a possibility of a lurch downwards in prices, a view echoed by John Butler, an economist at HSBC. Mr Butler said: “The housing market is still overvalued and the potential for a hard landing, rather than a soft landing, is still there.”

    Until today, the consensus was that the Bank of England had engineered a “soft landing” for house prices, as higher interest rates slowed the number of buyers in the market and returned prices to a normal level of growth.

    Yesterday, the Office of the Deputy Prime Minister said house prices had increased by 6.9pc year-on-year in April, a figure that is in line with reports from the Nationwide and Halifax for that month. The number of mortgage approvals granted in April was also healthy, at 91,000, the highest total for seven months.

    Simon Rubinsohn, an economist at Gerrard, said the market is being boosted by the high level of mortgage approvals, together with a strong jobs market, and the emergence of some attractive fixed-rate mortgages.

    “I think 2006 will be the hard year for the housing market,” he said. “The Chartered Institute of Purchasing and Supply were saying the jobs market would start drying up quite dramatically”.

    Mr Leaf admitted that when the RICS survey was put together, there was still a widespread expectation that interest rates might still rise. Now, the majority of economists believe rates will soon start to fall.

    Meanwhile, the price of goods leaving the factory gate dropped 0.2pc in April, despite the increased costs that manufacturers face. The one-year rate of inflation for factory-made goods is 2.7pc, while the cost of raw materials is rising by 7.8pc.

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    Originally posted by Dazzling:

    So now that you have been made aware of this fascinating information – what do you intend on doing with it ?? And how specifically does it integrate with the tiny portions of real estate that you actually own ??

    I’d really be interested in your answer as I personally don’t see any connection. How does it affect your current or next specific deal ??

    Cheers,

    Dazzling

    “No point having a cake if you can’t eat it.”

    Of course I’m not a big shot CBD commercial property owner like you, but this information is always included in my current or next deal. However my current or next deal is not likely to include real estate.

    My “tiny” portions of real estate were aquired at what I consider to be good value and my next RE deal will be under similar circumstances. (Likely to be at some distant point in the future)

    My capital is gainfully employed in the meantime.

    The above articles may or may not have a connection for you or me but it is good information nevertheless, to be used at your discretion.

    So sorry it obviously offended you.

    Have a nice day.

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    Originally posted by wezwaz:

    Just to round out the current discussion, here is an example I can relate to:

    Since I understand the mechanics of trading options, I could put together a seminar including all the glossy hype to suck people in. I charge participants $5,000 a head and get conservatively 100 to turn up. I walk away with $500,000 gross less some expenses – still a very tidy sum for a few days standing in front of a white board.

    I have never traded an option in my life, but I know how they work. Knowing how options work and making money trading them are worlds apart. Still, I could make a heap of money training people to trade them. Now, let’s be honest, do you think this would be an honest way for me to make an exorbitant amount of money quickly?

    There is one vital ingredient I forgot to mention. I lack the bravado and my ethics would not allow me to pull it off. Many presenters have bravado in spades and don’t mind compromising their ethics. Again, all presenters are not like this, before you get the wrong idea.

    Marc, you should read the other post in this forum reviewing Ed Burton. Another sourpuss, or could there be an element of truth?

    Wes.

    I trade options for a living, and I know what the various “options super duper secret society we know stuff evrybody else doesn’t know” courses teach.

    I can say catagorically that there is NO WAY that you can teach people to trade options for a living in 2 or 3 days. They can only teach you what you need to learn about in that time.

    I suspect property seminars are the same.

    They might open your eyes, but the real “learning” comes afterwards.

    What I know would take weeks of full time study to teach and most people wouldn’t get it anyway. Thats not to brag, but it is years of accumalated knowledge whilst trading real time with my own money.

    So is a $3-4-5000 seminar worth the money?

    The actual knowledge is worth about $39.95 because you can get the same knowlege in a book.

    Maybe the motivation is worth the money because the impetus has propelled many to go and learn further and actually apply that knowledge to increase wealth, whereas they may have not been motivated by reading a book.

    I know this! The marketing costs are enormous! It costs a hell of a lot to get people to come to the seminars,

    In the end the value of something is what someone is prepared to pay and there appears to be no shortage of punters lining up with multi-thousand dollar cheques (or more probably debt).

    They’re paying up!

    So wez, give me a call and we’ll start up an options seminar co. LOL

    But I have to be honest. There is NO WAY I would give away my best strategies for less than 20k each.

    Cheers

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    Volcker: U.S. Economic Crisis Imminent
    Friday, June 10, 2005

    Former Fed Chairman Paul Volcker said he doesn’t see how the U.S. can keep borrowing and consuming while letting foreign countries do all the producing.

    It’s a recipe for American economic disaster.

    On Thursday the Wall Street Journal reported bluntly that “Mr. Volcker thinks a crisis is likely.”

    Volcker believes that investor confidence could fade “at some point,” he said, with “damaging volatility in both exchange markets and interest rates.”

    He believes a serious economic crisis is likely unavoidable as the U.S. economy is struggling with what Volcker sees as a hopelessly unsustainable relationship with the rest of the world.

    “If I were a biologist I’d call this a perfect example of symbiosis,” Volcker said during a February speech at Stanford University.

    “Contented American consumers matched against delighted foreign producers. Happy borrowers matched against willing lenders. The difficulty is, the seemingly comfortable pattern can’t go on indefinitely.”

    Experts seem to agree that the current situation can’t last.

    But will there be a smooth and manageable rebalancing of the global economy – created by a slow drop in the dollar combined with a spike in foreign demand – or will the U.S. currency suddenly collapse, with skyrocketing interest rates that lead us into a global recession?

    Volcker believes a crisis is unavoidable, and he claims that investors will lose their confidence “at some point,” creating serious dilemma for “both exchange markets and interest rates.”

    As the United States faces the threats of a potential housing bubble, a massive trade deficit and the lowest level of American savings in history, the jury is out on the Federal Reserve’s actions over the past five years.

    The Wall Street Journal reports that while the Fed acknowledges that its response to the 2000 Dot-Com crisis is partly to blame for current economic conditions, it claims it had no other viable course of action.

    The Fed slashed interest rates, and Congress provided extreme tax cuts giving American households unprecedented buying power. While the government’s response did help the U.S. economy grow, it also created immense debt.

    To alleviate this problem, at some point, U.S. consumers will have to curb spending and concentrate on saving – plus the economy will be forced to forego foreign investment.

    Experts agree that the reaction to the economic problems after 9/11 took the country into uncharted territory. While many say the Fed’s rate cuts and President Bush’s tax initiatives were the right answer for recovery, no one can be sure.

    “We have done what no other economy has done before, faced with an asset bubble,” says Lawrence Lindsey, a one-time Fed governor and Bush adviser.

    “This is the first time in history the textbook economic policy … was used, and worked. The problem is, once you finish that chapter of the economic texts, you turn the page and the page is blank – because no one has gone through the process before.”

    Some economists warn that the Fed has simply replaced the Dot-Com bubble with a housing bubble that is ready to burst, draining consumer spending, driving foreign investors away from U.S. markets and nurturing numerous other conditions that could lead to a serious recession.

    Says Volcker: “I think we are skating on increasingly thin ice. On the present trajectory, the deficits and imbalances will increase.

    “At some point, the sense of confidence in capital markets that today so benignly supports the flow of funds to the United States and the growing world economy could fade. Then some event, or combination of events, could come along to disturb markets …”

    By contrast, Volcker’s successor is perhaps a bit less circumspect. He said, “The number of forecasts of crises … is far in excess of the number of crises that actually occur. There is something equivalent to an invisible hand which continuously is readdressing market imbalances to reach equilibrium.”

    Volcker, however, doesn’t have as much faith in market forces, which oddly enough brings him to the conclusion that Greenspan and the Fed are doing the right thing by raising interest rates to hold down inflation.

    The former Fed chairman thinks we need to make sure foreign investors hold their confidence in the U.S. because they’re the ones doing all the investing. They need to know “those trillions of dollars they are piling up are going to be protected against inflation.”

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    Originally posted by The Mortgage Adviser:

    Originally posted by pelican:

    Boy did you get grumpy all of a sudden…..

    Not grumpy at all. I just think people are walking around with blinkers on if they think we have freedom in Australia.

    Try walking down the street naked or taking a leak on a tree (which is common in the bush).

    The only reason it seems we have freedom here is because most Aussies are so laid back and follow the flock. They do not want the repurcussions.

    Imagine what people would do to you if suggested that the Tsunami victims deserved what they got or the US deserved 9/11??? You would be crucified!

    The Mortgage Adviser


    http://www.themortgageadviser.com.au
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    All of the sudden we are on the same page Rob!

    Good posts and thanks for pointing that out.

    Terryw also correct. Via the “anti terrorist act” and the UK & US equivelants, we in the anglosphere have had many freedoms ripped away from right under our noses.

    Do some research peeps.

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    Originally posted by Still in School:

    any money.. and had this talk over and over with many people…

    we will see the biggest crash, recession, depression in all history occur in 2010 – 2011… (pretty much in that one year..)

    anyways.. im happy to bet anyone that, that year we will experience the crash.. as most days, im dreaming and planning on how to tackle the crash head on…

    Cheers,
    sis

    I think negative sentiment will derail the economy before the boomers retiring will.

    “Cash is King” is often promulgated as the ideal situation for depressions….true, but what then if there is rampant inflation?

    In the coming financial apocalypse, I say “Liquidity is King”! Apart from a few core investments that have been in place since Adam was a boy, I like the idea of being able to put my money in any of a selection of assets (or derivitaves thereof) with a few keystrokes…hedging and hopefully profiting from any eventuality.

    Cheers

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    Geez what a treasure trove of ideas this place is!

    I know where I’m coming if I ever want to start a new business…..hmmmm come to think of it, I AM. Will be back when the idea is better formed.

    Good luck with the venture Rob!

    Cheers

    wayneL’s Trading Pages

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