Forum Replies Created
So, with respect to the question of ‘getting around the issues’ and limiting the impact of a parties (be it a body corporate member/s or an onsite manager/caretaker), the process and complexity differs depending on the state/territory and the nature of the agreement with the onsite manager.
In my region/situation the onsite manager has purchased the management rights (much like a lease on a motel). Because the onsite manager has ‘purchased’ the rights the ability to have their arrangement cancelled is very difficult (even if the onsite manager is not conforming to the agreement/contract), because you are asking the court to effectively make the onsite managers salable asset (the management rights) valueless.
Throw in personality issues, lack of trust and at times plain and simple spiteful behaviour and actions, you pretty much get a big fat mess.
The cost of lawyers is already running into the thousands, so I as an investor it is time to move on.
Tom
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Hello all, time for an update.
I ended up purchasing 3 units in the over 55’s complex in total. Each of them cost me $86K, rented for $220 each (all positive geared).
Fast forward to August 2022 and I have commenced selling all 3 units.
The reason for the sale is related to issues with the on site manager/caretaker (he has a lease for the management rights). Long story short, the manager’s behavior is leading to large costs incurred by the owners.
Fortunately the value of the units has appreciated, selling for $150K.
Therefore I am looking at realising a $64K increase for each unit, a 74% return (ownership of between 5 – 3 years).
I am upset to have to sell the units as I really enjoyed the relationships with the tenants and the cashflow was neat as well.
So, learnings:
- The over 55’s were a great cashflow generator at a purchase price of $86K
- The tenants were the best we have ever had, they paid on time and valued the secure housing
- The capital appreciation was a great bonus
- The issues between the caretaker and body corporate/owners really sucks. It is due to this issue that I will focus on non-body corporate real estate options in the future.
Thanks guys, I hope the update was interesting.
Tom
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Hey Julian, saving 30% of your income is an awesome achievement, keep that up and you will have a portfolio that will sustain you in retirement for many years.
Tom
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Hey Julian, if you are referring to the book “Creating Real Wealth by Michael Kemp” you may be right, I don’t know the author.
My personal story is factual, and as an update 2020/2021 has been an interesting journey.
I manage my share investments based on the theories of Austin Donnelly (https://www.bookdepository.com/Sensible-Share-Investing-Austin-Donnelly/9781875857159).
Mr Donnelly passed away in 2007, but his work in the area of share market analysis is simply amazing.
Based on his writings I had 90% of my share portfolio in cash at the end of 2019, and in March 2020 the COVID crash occurred. Again following Mr Donnelly’s zone methodology I switched to 90% shares in April, not at the bottom of the crash, but well below the peak.
In the twelve months since my net worth has increased $135K, an average of $369 per day (note I invest the majority of my share portfolio in managed funds/super, so my gains are not due to a ‘hot tip’ or ‘one off investment’).
My advice:
– read widely and take what works for you from each resource
– focus on the advice which helps you achieve your goals
– don’t focus on the information which seems unlikely or unreal
– it all comes down to goal setting
– set your goals and then learn what you need to learn to achieve them.
Tom
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Indeed Benny I didn’t start accumulating at $147 a day. From my spreadsheet our progress over time tracked as follows:
$102 per day – first 5 months (July 2001 – Nov 2001) – note: we had a few quick wins, downsizing our car and selling some other items to build up capital
$65.35 per day – 5 years (2001 – 2006) – note: this includes travelling and working around Australia for 4.5 years and having large periods of no work – 6 – 9 months at a time)
$146.51 per day – 10 years (2001 – 2011)
$142.66 per day – 15 years (2001 – 2016) – note: we had 2 x kids and both started working part-time during from 2010)
$147 per day – 18 years (2001 – 2019) – note: kids are now at school and I returned to full time workA couple of other points on my situation:
– This has been a team effort between myself and my wife
– We have been double income since we started, saving 100% of one wage since July 2001
– We haven’t got divorced!
– We were both committed to the goal and both made sacrifices together
– We both earn above the average wages (having both earned degrees and I have a trade too)
– We don’t compare ourselves to others, so we don’t try to keep up with the Jones’Keeping up with Jones’ (not!)
Further on this point, here are few points:
– We have 1 mobile between us, on a $5 a month plan
– Our cars are 1 x Ford Falcon wagon (2006) and 1 x Honda Jazz (2012)
– We home butcher our own meat, have a milking cow and have aquaponics and chickens etc, so we grow approx 70% of our own food
– We don’t have any subscriptions, no spotify, no netflix, no disney+ etc
– Our kids attend a public school (as we did)The luxuries
Having said that it’s not all penny pinching:
– We have 4 x real estate investments
– We own our house outright
– We have at least 2 x holidays a year (skiing in NZ, visiting Fiji (Bula!) driving to VIC’s Great Ocean Road etc)
– We have a large share share portfilio
– I commence part-time work again in 2020 (3 days a week) and my wife will work 2 days a weekTom
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Hey guys, for those following this post I have written another post analysing a real estate deal. You can read it here – https://www.propertyinvesting.com/topic/5056137-analysing-the-deal-2/
Tom
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Hey Ian, that’s an interesting question.
Firstly I have determined weights for my investing portfolio of 50% real estate/50% shares. My cash/bonds component can be as high as 50% depending on what is going on with my life (maybe I just bought a new home I live in, so I want to reduce non-tax deductible debt and sit a bunch of cash in an off-set to pay off the loan quickly), maybe I just made an investment decisions (I just sold an asset for example) or in my assessment/judgement a market (shares or property) is over valued and I sell to take my cash profits (before a possible bear market).
I personally think making informed decisions about asset allocation is the most important question. This is what a real Financial Planner does (real as in one not employed by a bank or commission based boutique firm, those people are just sales people with a fancy title!).
When it comes to investing in real estate I am a conservative investor, so I invest in property that I can drive to, so with 50km or so of where I live (I live on the West side of Brisbane QLD).
I invest this way for a few reasons:
1. We manage the tenancy ourselves . We use an agent to find tenants, show the property, assess the applications and make recommendations to us, but once they move in we take over. I have worked as a tenancy officer in public housing so I have a good understanding of tenancy management.2. I do all maintenance inspections and organise repairs. I am a licenced electrician and worked as a Maintenance Coordinator etc for many years, so I am really good at these skills too.
When it comes to buying I find that buying from interstate investors makes for the best pickings, as the properties have cosmetic issues (neglected property maintenance due to “out of sight, out of mind” I think) and also interstate investors don’t seem to have a good understanding of the local market, which means they have often bought at a high price (in local market terms). My last four purchases have been for less than the previous buyers has paid, collectively I have paid $76,000 less then the 4 previous owners had paid (that’s real negative equity for the sellers, not just paper loss). Three of the four previous owners of the properties I bought were interstate investors.
In the end I have never been an empire builder. I admire people who do invest in large numbers, Steve McKnight’s story of purchasing hundreds of properties over a relative short period is awesome. Investors who achieve that kind of result will make way more money then I ever do. I doubt I could buy 100 properties in 3 years using my method, but that’s cool, as I said, I am a conservative investor.
Having said that, I analyse my local market, looking for insights into demographic trends, where businesses and councils are making investments, where industries are closing down etc (I am an Economist as well). This analysis has influenced my investment decisions and giving me confidence to invest in assets that others consider risky (such as the over 55’s units).
So in my humble opinion the question of location comes after you’ve got your asset allocation in order, and then it’s going to be depending on where you live too. I live in a place where I can find opportunities to buy within my investing model. If I lived elsewhere and I had to invest interstate then I would need to think about how that model could work.
Tom
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Thanks Ian, having now purchased 2 of these units (over 55’s), a 3 bedroom house and a 2 bedroom unit (in a little complex of 12 units) over the past 2 years, I think it is important to diversify one’s real estate portfolio. The over 55’s get a higher rental yield, and these older tenants pay on time and are really the best tenants, they really value the units and the lifestyle they get. The 3 bedroom house is rented to a single lady with three kids, and she occasionally finds it hard to get the rent paid on time, but so far she’s been good for it, and she always lets us know what is going on (late payments etc).
When it comes to capital appreciation, well time will tell. I believe a good over 55’s complex (one with no management business ‘stealing’ from owners with ridiculous contracts etc will have significant demand over the coming 20 years as the baby boomers start to reach over the age of 75, so I think these little 1 bedder’s may be good little capital earners as well, we’ll just have to wait and see.
Tom
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I just use an excel spreadsheet. The investment detective software no doubt has a bunch of lines that you fill in (itemising costs etc). If you just list these lines into a spreadsheet you should be able to provide your accountant with the same information you already provide them.
Tom
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I have outlined my process of analysing an deal in the following discussion https://www.propertyinvesting.com/topic/5054913-analysing-the-deal/
Tom
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Residential real estate, particularly the rental sector, has been notably slow to experience the same radical disruption that many other industries have seen with the digital age (e.g. retail, finance, transportation). Companies like Zillow and Redfin have democratized MLS listings and the home search process, but the way we buy and rent homes are still fundamentally the same as it always has been. This has a lot to do with the fact that real estate is such a capital-intensive industry. It’s much harder to remove friction from a process that’s much more complicated (and has bigger stakes) than, say, ride-sharing.
I thought the rental sector has been one of the biggest radical disrupted sectors, what with Air B&B and the like.
Tom
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Hey Darryl, how has your portfolio weathered the last 12 months of price deflation? Have you experienced any negative equity?
Have you had some free cash to purchase properties in the past few months?
Tom
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Hey Rich, out of interest which part of Melbourne are you considering purchasing in? Which part of town would you consider living in yourself? Would you like a townhouse, unit, duplex, detached 3 bedroom house?
I will take a real example from your area and apply the analysis I complete when considering an investment, so if you have one you like share a link and we can discuss.
Tom
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Awesome, thanks for the additional info.
Firstly congratulations on setting yourself up so well to start investing, having no major debt is a great achievement. Having completed a balance sheet, cash flow statement and knowing your net worth means you are already ahead of the pack… well done.
My first bit of advice to everyone who is interested in investing is to read John Burley’s 7 levels of investors. You can read a PDF version here – http://belnapfamily.net/teach/7Levels.pdf
From what you have told us already you are a level 3 investor. My first goal was to become a level 4 investor within 1 month of reading this document (for me that was 18 years ago). Becoming a level 4 (automatic investor) will guarantee that you will become wealthy, and you won’t even have to invest in real estate.
Quoting from the document, the 7 money steps:
• Paying Yourself First
• Re-investing Your Investment Returns
• Receiving Level Four Automatic Investor Rates of Return
• Knowing What Your Money is Doing
• Adopting the Automatic Money System
• Financial Competence (Intelligence and Responsibility)
• Avoiding Debt and Living Debt-FreeYou can use super to create the core strength of your finances. I do this by investing a minimum of 10% of my wage (gross) into super via salary sacrifice. Using salary sacrifice means I make an automatic return of 17.5% (the difference between my marginal rate of 32.5 and and the 15% super rate). Now I challenge anyone to show me an investment which is as low risk as this that returns 17.5%!!!
How is this possible? Well, If I invested after tax I would pay 32.5% on my income first, and then I would invest. Through salary sacrifice I pay only 15%. So, if I had $1,000 to invest, if I did this after tax I would only have $675 left to invest after paying my marginal tax (1000-325 = 675), using salary sacrifice I would have $850 to invest (1000-150 = 850).
Using the power of salary sacrifice I have increased my net worth by over $250,000, debt free!
Have a read of the 7 levels of investor and share your thoughts/questions.
Tom
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Rich, I would need a little more information from you to provide any type of advice, such as:
1. What are your investment goals (such as: own 1 investment property, achieve a certain income goal from investments)?
2. What is your time frame (5 years, 20 years etc, this will make a big difference)?
3. What is your level of investment knowledge and experience?
4. Have you completed a balance sheet, cash flow statement and calculated your net worth? (I can provide advice on how and why to do these).
5. How do you generate your income today (wages, pension, investment income, business income)?
6. How is your super going? Have you consolidated all your accounts? Do you maximise your contributions? Do you salary sacrifice (this is hands down the best investment option for most wage earners with lower net worth)
7. What is your investment risk profile
8. What are your expenses (lots of personal debt, child support, kids in private schools, car loans etc). If you have large debts it may make sense to pay these down before investing, as many lenders may look poorly on high levels of debts.
9. Are you a first home buyer?
10. Do you have equity in an existing house (owner-occupier)?The list could go on, but these are the first 10 I can think of now.
In my experience you need to get your ‘house’ in order before considering investing in real estate.
You mention you have $30K saved, this is a great start, and would be a 10% deposit on a $300,000 property, but you would need extra for stamp duty, legals, searches etc.
I encourage you to let the forum know a little more about your situation so we can provide advice of real value.
Tom
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A little update on the over 55’s investment. We have now purchased a 2nd unit, again for $86k, it is also tenanted for $220/w. Both of our tenants are very happy with the complex.
On the topic of tenants, both units have tenants over the age of 80 in them (a single in one unit and a couple in the other).
At this age the expected tenancy period is 3 years (according to the productivity report – https://www.pc.gov.au/research/completed/housing-decisions-older-australians/housing-decisions-older-australians.pdf)
This report has been very interesting and helped me further develop a business plan for this type of investment, for example:
– The primary reason people 65-79 move is to get a smaller/less expensive place
– Older home owners are more likely to move into less expensive accommodation (our single tenant sold his home and moved into our unit – he is ‘rightsizing’ for his life (and moving closer to his kids).
– Average tenure post the age of 80 is 3 years (the next move is either aged care facility or the funeral home!)
– Around 10% of over 75 year old’s rent (my earlier analysis found that if only 3% of the population (over the age of 55) in this area required rentals that would be over 500 individuals.
– The use of residential aged care is declining (This is very interesting, as the aged population is increasing. This suggests that older Aussies are staying healthy… leading to a demand for appropriate housing)
– An increasing proportion of older Australians are choosing to move into age-specific housing (music to my investment ears)
– A substantial proportion of older Australians are in the private market
– 4.5% of older Australians live in Retirement villages and 7.3% in private rentalAnd the biggest contributor to our investment confidence…
– Older Australians who rent have low security of tenure
– We offer 100% security of tenure, we are not going to move into the units (I’m only 40, so I am 15 years off even being able to move in!)This tenure issue is huge for our tenants, it is their number one question when they move in “Can we stay here for the rest of our lives?”
My checklist for investment in over 55’s is based on findings like the following…
As people age, their housing needs and preferences may change, both in respect to a
dwelling’s location and its amenity. Generally, older people require dwellings that are suitable
for their changing physical needs, with even surfaces, passages wide enough for wheelchairs,
and appropriately designed bathrooms, toilets and kitchens. It is also important for the dwelling
to be located close to services and facilities, such as medical clinics and public spaces, to allow
residents to continue to participate actively in their community. Older people, particularly those
living alone, are often concerned for their safety, and look for dwellings and communities that
offer them a sense of security.My checklist is:
– Hobless shower
– No steps
– Mixer tap at all sinks
– Wheelchair accessable
– Located near doctors
– Located near shops
– Surrounded by wide public pathways
– No pool (I don’t want the extra cost)
– Self contained
– Well maintained and appointed common room (for family gatherings)On a side note, we have settled on a traditional 3 bedroom investment house this week ($230K – rents for 340/week), so we are getting some diversification in the portfolio.
It is a great market at the moment, and we have purchased 3 investment properties in the past 18 months.
I am looking at another opportunity at lunch today (3 bedroom – $200K – rents for 260/w), lots of opportunities.
Tom
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We sure did Kengw022. We purchased for $86K (220/w rent). It has been great, the tenants are great (we self manage), it was positive geared in the first FY as expected (we made $1,500 above all costs, including financing, rate, body corp etc).
The last two units in the complex have sold for $95K each, so that represents a 13% capital growth in 12 months, but we aren’t selling so that’s only a paper profit.
A positive side of this investment has been the tenants. When my wife met them, the first question was can we stay here until we die. When my wife said yes, of course, the tenants cried with joy. They have had 3 rentals in a little over 18 months (none due to their actions), two due to sales of the houses and one due to the council enforcing a usage rule (the houses were approved for short-term stays only). Having tenants this motivated to keep their tenure is pretty awesome, and there is a level of intrinsic happiness as the owner, knowing that this investment is providing such a great outcome to the tenants.
Tom
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I think the couple are doing a great job too, maxing out one’s lending capacity is quite a popular investing methodology.
My investment goals differ somewhat (not better or more right, just different), but if all goes to plan for the couple in the show they will end up much richer than I, and I think they deserve to rewards.
The topic of the level of debt to equity that forum members feel comfortable with, and the way we go about out analysis I find really fascinating.
Tom
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I like the way you are thinking Benny. 42% the median rent for working families could be considered a soft limit.
Next step: ascertain the median rent in the region.
Tom
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I found this explanation of how pensions are indexed:
Indexation
Base pensions are indexed twice a year, in March and September, to reflect changes in pensioners’ cost of living and wages. The pension is increased to reflect growth in the Consumer Price Index and the Pensioner and Beneficiary Living Cost Index, whichever is higher. When wages grow more quickly than prices, the pension is increased to the wages benchmark. The wages benchmark sets the combined couple rate of pension at 41.76 per cent of Male Total Average Weekly Earnings. The single rate of pension is two thirds of the couple rate.Source – https://www.dss.gov.au/our-responsibilities/seniors/benefits-payments/pension-rates
This explanation suggests that while pension incomes are low, they are pretty much guaranteed to increase, twice a year.
This should allow for periodic rental increases, supported by the historical rental increases I was able to identify at 1.6% per annum over the past 5 years.
Tom
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