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And the complaints just keep rolling in. Kevin Young is obviously having problems with his spin doctoring now. Very few of his statements make a lot of sense and if you listen carefully to them, most of them are just plucked out of thin air. Never has Kevin Young been able to show one TIC member who has genuinely been able to retire using the Kevin Young retirement plan, yet he continues to spruik that no-one has made more millionaires than him. Really? I guess that comes down to what Kevin’s definition of a millionaire really is and I suspect it’s something quite different to the definition the average punter would expect.
This man has been seriously misleading members for far too long now. Perhaps his chickens have come home to roost finally! It’s time the Authorities went through TIC properly. Consumers have had enough of salesmen dressing themselves up as self proclaimed investment experts stuffing their pockets and failing to deliver what they promise.
Not surprising really I suppose. ABC have just done a story on this fake club.
http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2014/s4065976.htm
Where there is smoke there is fire and I think Kevin Young has a lot of spot fires to contend with lately as members discover the many ways they have been duped into buying overpriced and poorly performing properties through the club.
Don't mean to be rude Mushirkhan but you posted a link to a site that gave you all the information you need, yet you seem to be still confused???. Just reading the postings on that link, I wouldn't go near this man personally, there is just too much bad wrap associated to him and what positive wraps he does get seems to be from people who have just completed his course and have no results yet, or from stooges that he has talking him up on the forums.
Did you know that many of these sprukkers employ IT professionals now to highlight the positive comments about them on the internet, and bury anything negative? It's all done using search engine optimization techniques and posting material that they know will take precedence over the negative stuff.
I think very few of these sprukkers can be trusted to really deliver. If they don't, what chance have you got of getting your money back? Generally zilch!
I suggest readers check out this latest action taken against Rick Otton in WA for misleading and deceptive practices. It's time the other states followed suit in my view.
http://www.commerce.wa.gov.au/consumerprotection/PDF/EnforceableUndertaki/RickOttonWeBuyHouses.pdf
An old post now I know, but I was searching for something else and came across it. I would have to say that I would use Destiny Services (Margaret Lomas) long before I would use many other of these property marketing / spruiking companies. The thing that sets them apart for me is that they are not taking a commissions from the developers like many of the others do. I spoke to Margaret once about this subject and she indicated that she thought it was too much of a conflict of interest. While she has had plenty of opportunity to do this, and make a whole lot more easy money, she rightfully refuses to allow her reputation to be tarnished by doing so. I think she should be commended for taking a stand like that, when so many are prepared to justify these unethical practices.
My advice is to always consider how the company you do business with gets paid. If they are offering free services to you the buyer, while at the same time being paid on sales commissions, they are no different than any other selling agent so don't listen to their B/S. Marketing fees are always hidden into the purchase price when buying off the plan or from a developer. It is a cost to the developer that you can be sure they are not going to wear! Whole suburbs can quickly become artificially inflated in price as these marketing companies flog overpriced stock to interstate buyers, and then use those inflated sales to justify future valuations.
The whole industry has become so murky is it any wonder so many mum and dad investors have discovered the hard way that they have bought an overpriced lemon property in a poor performing area despite being promised they would get a top performing and carefully researched investment property that would outperform market averages. Now the marketing company just blames the GFC for the fact that the property has dropped in value 60 – 80K (sometimes a lot more) in the last 5 years.
Heeeelloooo…………… The Investors Club – Park Trent Property Group – and of course many others using the same 'one stop shop' business models …………
I can't see how this is legal
It appears from a quick look at the Cashflow Capital website that they are operating as buyer's agents and selling agents in the same transaction. If nothing else it is a huge conflict of interest and I wouldn't feel at all comfortable dealing with any company who takes a fee from both sides.
I think this is something that the authorities should be having a good look at as this practice is becoming rife in the property marketing sector.
http://australianpropertyforum.com/topic/9041357/3/
This is a very interesting thread I found which relates to this topic.
Oh Terry, re your last comment about the trial. I discovered that what happened was Kevin Young was pushed to the court room steps and then wanted to settle out of court with all the usual confidentiality deeds attached so no-one can speak publicly about what really happened. He also insisted that the victims make a ridiculous public statement to say that TIC had always acted honestly in their dealings with them. This has become textbook stuff for Kevin Young.
The strategy is to drag the legal process out in an attempt to deep pocket the opponent, but if they eventually back you into a corner where you have to front up in the courtroom, quickly change tactics and agree to settle out of court and give them what they have been asking for all along. The advantage of this strategy is that in the first instance, most won't have deep enough pockets to continue paying their lawyers through the drawn out processes before the matter ever sees the inside of a courtroom. If they do, then they can be silenced before the matter is reported publicly. The complainants can be gagged about what really happened, and the reputation of the company and individuals concerned can be protected (or should I say, hidden from public view.) A settlement handled out of court in this way, can also have advantages to the accused when it comes to who pays the legal costs.
Kevin Young has become a master at manipulating the systems to his own advantage, making misleading public statements about the truth of these matters and playing bluff games. What I am saying here is be warned about what might be going on behind the scenes with these companies before deciding to do business with them. Like many of these marketing companies, very often all is not as it seems, especially for first time investors. They are also finding very efffective ways to hide any negative internet material about them. On that note, here's a tip: If you are searching on google and find that certain information has been blocked by google with a 'chilling effect' notice in it's place this is usually a bit warning flag that the company is seeking to hide information they don't want you to discover. Instead do the same search on BING and you should find it.
I know this is now a very old post about The Investors Club, but it one of the first that comes up these days under a google search for anyone attempting to research or do their due diligence on this company and it's founder Kevin Young. For that reason I thought I would add a new post to it.
This story appeared on ABC TV very recently and I suggest that anyone researching The Investors Club watch it. For that matter I suggest that anyone researching any property marketing company or wealth spruiking company watch it. Although The Investors Club isn't actually mentioned, one has to consider if their business model isn't exactly as described in this story.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-06-17/the-stampede-into-property-by-self-managed-super/4761308
If you go back to the beginning of this thread and read it right the way through it is a classic. Well done Richard Taylor I say, who immediately identified what was going on with this thread long before the truth was ever exposed. Egg on your face to the builder though!
Some of the early comments are perfect examples of how so many people worship their gurus and hate to see anything negative posted about them. <moderator: delete personal comment>
But back to the topic………….."The gurus and their cult followings"………………now there's a topic that would get some reactions…………….none more so than the TIC brigade I'd guess Richard! lol
I have to say that I agree with this assessment completely and I think it is a great thing that Darryl is drawing public attention to this. It will no doubt affect many 'investment' buyers who were misled into purchasing these properties by marketing companies on the basis that they could be dual tenanted.
I am aware that The Investors Club is one such property marketing company who have sold a number of these units to their members on the basis that the properties could be dual tenanted, when legally they can't. In fact, right in front of me I have a TIC property profile for one of these properties which says:
Quote:"Two rental incomes will be achieved with this property with NO body corporate, what a great concept" in another part it says "The concept is the house is built to cater for two rental properties under one roof, what a great idea."I would recommend that anyone who has found themselves to have been misled by anyone marketing these properties, to seek some independent advice moving forward. Judging by Darryl's comments in this article I can see that he may be one such person with the knowledge to properly dissect and understand what might really be going on here.
By this I mean it is very important not to blindly follow the advice of the people who sold you the property, or those connected to and supporting the builder/developer of these properties.
I am aware that there are certain individuals who have been campaigning to gather support for solutions which steer any blame for this away from themselves. They may appear to have your best interests at heart but be warned. In my opinion they have a very good reason to be focusing your attention on blaming the BCC for this mess, and buyers of these properties need to be aware and very careful of this. There's an old saying which says "Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me."
Don't be fooled for a second time!
As some have said previously, far too many of these seminar gurus are fakes, making loads of money from the unsuspecting who attend their seminars and sign up for their expensive courses. I notice that Mark Rolton is running another round of his seminars <moderator: delete personal comment>. I have investigated the claims made by a number of gurus, (some of them who have been mentioned in this and other forums), and found absolutely no evidence to back up what they claim. In fact in some cases, I have proven that their claims are totally fabricated.
Something else that I have recently found very interesting. Type into google the name of your guru with the word 'scam' after it. Because some of these gurus have now become the target of sites exposing their underhand tactics, they have gone to a lot of trouble to hide these sites from the first page of a 'google' search. For those that aren't aware, there are a number of ways to do this using SEO (Search Engine Optimisation) techniques, but the one that interests me the most is when the spruikers register the domain names with the word 'scam' or 'exposed' in them.
In order not to actually name anyone (and risk being moderated) I'll make up a name in this example.
Let's call our spruiker Bill Smith. If Bill Smith is finding that his critics are starting to speak out about him on the internet, he will secure the domain name http://www.billsmithscam.com and/or http://www.billsmithexposed.com. These sites will either link back to their main site or be full of positive material promoting them. This stops their critics from securing these domain names but also assists with the SEO that I mentioned before. Now I won't say too much more, but just have a think about why they might be doing this. Try google searching your guru with the word scam after his/her name and see what you come up with.
If you are a newby to the game, please tread very carefully with the seminar spruikers. Many are not what they are cracked up to be and if you decide later that you didn't get what was promised and want your money back, expect a long drawn out process where you will be made to jump through all sorts of hoops. These spruikers may have a money back guarantee, but they are often not worth the paper they are written on. Check the fine print!
My opinion on house and land packages offered by developers and Property Marketing Comanies (PMC) is that I don't believe that they always offer the benefits promised and that there are better ways you can search for a good performing property yourself. Here's some hints.
Overall these properties are being sold by PMC who, as others have pointed out, are often inflated in terms of price to hide the excessive commissions that these companies are charging the developers to sell the properties to their client data bases. Of course the property marketing companies deny this, but rest assured the scenario posted above by Michelle is far more common than most would expect. Secondly there are the myraid of problems that can be experienced by the house and land buyers both during the build, and in the first couple of years afterwards. This is the period when any defects come to light and you don't want to the one in the drivers seat trying to sort the mess out! Rest assured, at this point the PMC won't want to know you. By then they have secured their commission and are busy looking for other suckers. They will blame the market , the GFC, the Floods, or anything else they can think of, for your woes.
Anyway, it all comes back to what the market is prepared to pay at any given time and this is why I believe the investment bargains can often be found found in those properties that were first sold to naive investors by PMC as say house and land packages, or off the plan unit developments, that have come back on the market within 2 or 3 years. At this point there are several factors in your favor as an investor buyer.
1) In most cases if there are any problems with the build (or perhaps the excavation of the site etc) it will more often than not come to the surface in the first couple of years. The second buyer can avoid all the dramas and legal battles associated with any problems. One way or other the first buyer will have to fix them.
2) Many of the sellers at this point have discovered that the property marketing company they dealt with has led them in a very highly leveraged financial position. Many are desperate to get out of their financial ,mess. They become very motivated sellers. Many take a big hit as they discover they can't get anything like what they paid for the property 3 – 5 years earlier. Despite all the excuses they get from the PMC about this, they end up the losers unless they can afford to hold for the long term. Many can't and are forced to sell. If you are the buyer you can often secure the property for it's true market value or in some cases (mortgagee sales) significantly under market value.
3) By the time a few years have passed, you can far more easily see the effects that the rapid building of properties in the particular area has had on the actual rental returns and property values. The property hot spot that the marketing company was spruiking so much about at point of sale, has rapidly turned into a property freeze spot! I have seen many cases where the projected rental returns and capital gains for these properties have been way over estimated by these marketing companies at point of sale, just to secure them a commission. They will fall back on all sorts of disclaimers and quickly deny responsibility when the returns don't meet expectations. All those promises of continued customer support quickly evaporate.
So my advice is don't be lazy and use a marketing company for the convenience of what they offer, unless you don't mind feeding their cleverly disguised machines.
As have mentioned on other threads about TIC please be very careful as this article explains. http://www.propertyobserver.com.au/residential/after-mediation-fails-investors-club-dispute-headed-for-court/2011122052917 I just can't understand how this could have happened judging by the figures quoted. I think that if the truth ever comes out about this Kirribilli Heights development in which no fewer than 12 TIC members were badly burnt, it's not going to look very good for TIC.
Slater and Gordon are a very well known and respected law firm. If they have even agreed to take the case on, I would imagine this is likely to get interesting! I see that Kevin Young referred to S & G (in another WA news article) as 'ambulance chasers'. That was a big call in in my opinion and showed real arrogance! Anyway, you be the judge but I think this story will be worth watching closely as it unfolds.
For anyone considering doing business with TIC you may want to read and follow this story which has yet to be resolved. http://www.propertyobserver.com.au/residential/after-mediation-fails-investors-club-dispute-headed-for-court/2011122052917 You be the judge! I think this is appalling judging by the figures quoted! How could this happen?
Please be careful if you are contemplating dealing with The Investors Club and Kevin Young a.k.a. Kevin Sampy. I see others have posted warnings also.
The following news article explains just one disaster known as the 'Kirribilli Heights' development that no fewer than 12 TIC members were exposed to.
<moderator: delete personal comment>
I trust that my comments have not breached any of the terms of use on this site! I simply want to warn readers to be very careful when dealing with TIC. As others have allured to, they are not a club at all. They are a property market company making huge profits selling property to their so called 'club members'.
