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  • Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    Generally until death, but only in the final tax return. If your estate sells a property the loss won’t offset the gain.

    There are also various rules about carrying forward losses, especially in trusts.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    e.g. Buy for $300,000
    Sell for $300,000

    Cost base is $300,000 plus all costs not claimed such as stamp duty, lawyer fees, estate agent commission etc.

    This could be say $40,000 So you would suffer a capital loss of $40k in this example. This cannot offset income but can offset future capital gains.

    Losses are applied before the 50% discount too

    So $40k carried forward as a loss.

    You then make $80,000 in capital gains for shares held more than 12 months

    The loss is applied first so the gain will be $40k then the 50% discount making the gain $20k and this is added to your other income.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    . And you cannot claim any “claimable immediately” items till it is available for rent anyway.

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    This is not the case Jac – steele’s case shows expenses can be claimed well before any income earning activity. It depends on the circumstances. If a person is borrowing to build an investment property – ie.e one they intend to rent out then the interest and other costs are generally deductible – even though income from rent may be not expected till the next financial year (or later)

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    Nope cannot claim this as it is a capital cost.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    Hello all,

    Quick question for any experienced and knowledgable property people relevant to the thread.

    I heard recently that when a investment/property is gifted by a parent to their child when they marry it is not subject to Stamp duty, pending certain conditions like the period of time before or after the wedding.

    It sounds ludricous in todays day and age, but can anyone shed any light on this or even heard of it?

    Any resposnes appreciated

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    As you suspect – Just a bizarre story with no basis of fact – unless the parents are gifting upon death.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    Thanks, Terryw.

    I’m looking for any information that would tell me how I could minimise land tax with my next purchase (i.e. how to structure the ownership of the next IP, and the next one, and so forth), what the future tax effects would be (e.g. how a property owned under a Trust would be different to that owned by an individual – future CGT, negative gearing, claiming losses, income rules, etc.).

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    In this case you need personal advice from someone qualified to advise on land tax – a registered tax agent or a solicitor. There are no books on the topic but there are some good articles around – technical stuff for lawyers and accountants mainly.

    But all you have to do is to look at the land tax act cited above.

    • This reply was modified 9 years, 4 months ago by Profile photo of Terryw Terryw.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    Yes, it is possible the CGT exemption won’t apply. But it will depend on the situation. If you are a builder then the ATO would be looking more closely at this.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    What in particular do you want information on MsTrump?

    If it is trusts and land tax in SA then first port of call should be to Revenue SA – the govt department responsible for administering land tax
    e.g.
    https://www.revenuesa.sa.gov.au/taxes-and-duties/land-tax/land-held-on-trust

    Then have a look at the law
    Section 13 of the Land Tax Act 1936
    http://www5.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/sa/consol_act/lta193690/s13.html

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    There are ways to structure things so you don’t pay land tax. Depending on the state:
    spouse
    company
    trust
    smsf

    you can always buy in a different states too. NT has no land tax.

    But of course land tax is only one thing to consider.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    I think you would be in trouble under strategy 1 when it comes to the main residence exemption, as it looks to me like purely being a profit making scheme.

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    e.g. TD 92/135
    Income tax: capital gains: is the main residence exemption relevant when the proceeds of sale of a dwelling are treated as income under ordinary concepts?
    1. No. In cases where the sale of a dwelling gives rise to income under section 6-5 of the Income Tax Assessment Act 1997 (ITAA 1997), for example. as part of a business or from an isolated profit-making transaction, that income remains assessable even if a main residence exemption is available for CGT purposes.

    2. The main residence exemption in Subdivision 118-B of the ITAA 1997 is a capital gains tax exemption only and does not extend to exempt from tax ordinary profits or business income.

    Example :

    A builder constructs a spec home in which he and his family reside while construction proceeds on another spec home. Any profit on sale which gives rise to income is fully assessable to the builder even if a main residence exemption is available for CGT purposes.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    You don’t give the state of purchase.

    Tenants in common and Joint tenants generally treated the same as most states assess the owner as one unit. In NSW the primary taxpayer = both of you. One threshold between you. If either of you own property separately then your share of the jointly owned property will count to the threshold for the second property.

    Probably sounds confusing!

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    I recall, way back, Steve saying:

    1/3 income to live on
    1/3 to invest
    1/3 to pay down debt.

    Not a bad way to do things I think.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    I advise on on asset protection and trusts etc, but I generally try to talk people out of using trusts to own property. Probably less than 10% of my clients use them to own property. Asset protection (on bankruptcy) is generally not an issue for most people, even doctors. I have yet to see a doctor sued for negligence and in most cases their insurance would cover it – and their employer because of vicarious liability.

    But the main reason you should consider asset protection is for business. If you enter a business at some stage in the future then your previously purchased assets will be at risk. Many businesses fail and even if you are using a company structure to limit liability the directors usually need to give personal guarantees. If you think you might get into property development then this is probably more risky that the average business.

    So generally speaking it is a good idea to buy assets such as the main residence in the name of spouse A – who is least likely to enter a business or be sued. Investments could also be done in the name of spouse A while spouse B conducts the risky business through a company structure. Once land tax thresholds of spouse A have been used up then perhaps consider a trust to own investment properties.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    Asset protection involves legal advice so best to seek a lawyer. You need to carefully consider the bankruptcy act and the conveyancing act in your state. One way to gain extra protection is through related party loans with registered mortgages. But this has to be done in a commercial manner of the result will be like a wet paper bag!

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    What does Destiny charge for this service? You should ask whether they are licenced to give the appropriate advice. Generally no licence is needed for property advice as it is not a financial product but any advice will involve legal, taxation and credit matters.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    Short answer is yes it may be possible.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    Only a good idea if you don’t have a non deductible loan.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    Terry – that is what I was asking. In the case of being audited, how do people generally prove they lived there in that time? Would being able to reproduce bills showing electricity/gas/water being used along with having mail redirected to that property be considered sufficient evidence or do the ATO require some sort of other evidence?

    You will have to gather whatever evidence you can. Utility connectations and usage, mail, photos of you and your possessions there, drivers licence, electorial roll etc.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    You don’t need a financial planner but a lawyer as it seems you have negative net worth and you could be tinkering on bankruptcy. It sounds like all your properties are cross collateralised and you may not be able to release the mortgage even if you managed to sell a property. I wouldn’t borrow from family as it may be unlikely you will be able to repay them.

    Do you know which properties are securing which loans? Even the sale of a property with some equity may not be possible as it could trigger a valuation and then the bank will require existing loans to be paid down to maintain acceptable LVR – which you may not have the funds to do.

    One strategy may be to stop paying the loans now or to just pay 1 loan, get this one down and sold and then let the bank take possession of the others.

    This is why you should never cross collateralise.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    Here if you buy in a company you do not get the capitals gains 50% discount. A good accountant should be able to advise you what is the best structure.

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    But often the land tax savings will outweigh the potential 5% or so in savings. Plus the franking credits could possibly reduce the CGT if income distributed to a discretionary trust shareholder and the to family members on low incomes

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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