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  • Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,213

    Why it may be a good idea to use a company to own property

    Companies are generally not recommended for holding growth assets in. This is mainly because:

    1. No access to the 50% CGT discount
    2. Income does not retain its character – e.g. capital gains incurred by the company come out to the shareholders as dividends and no capital gains.

    But companies can be good structures for the ownership of property in several ways.
    1. Asset protection – liability is generally limited to the company itself and the directors and shareholders are generally not liable for the debts of the company.

    2. Ability to retain income. unlike trusts a company can hold its income, pay tax on it and distribute it at a later date.

    3. Ability to own the shares via a discretionary trust which will aid asset protection if the individual were to go bankrupt.

    4. Land tax threshold is available in most states – this is a biggie in NSW.

    Take for instance a person who has used up their land tax threshold. They will pay land tax in their own name or if the property is owned by the trustee of a discretionary trust.

    I have done some modelling with a hypothetical property valued at $500,000 with the land being 50% of the value of the property, CPI at 4% (land tax threshold increase) and values increasing by 6% pa.

    If the property was owned for 10 years and then sold it the approx capital gain would be $339,606

    An individual at the top tax rate would pay approx $79,807 in tax. Plus approx $60,987 in land tax over the 10 years = $140,794

    A DT distributing to an individual on the top tax rate would be the same.

    A DT distributing to a company would mean approx $101,882 plus land tax of $60,987 = $162,868

    However, a company would pay $101,882 (30%) in tax plus there would be no land tax at all as the property is under the threshold.

    However to be fair the trustee of the trust may be able to distribute to 5 individuals who each have no other income. In practice I have never seen this happen, but it is a possiblity. This could mean there is no tax payable at all, other than the land tax of $60,987

    But if the trustee distributed all the gain to a non working spouse then they would pay $54170.17 in tax plus the land tax of $60,987 = $115,157

    Summary Income tax and land tax payable:
    Individual owner at top marginal rate before the gain = $140,794
    DT flowing thru to a person on the top marginal rate = $162,868
    DT flowing thru to a person with no other income = $115,157
    DT flowing thru to 5 persons (adults) with no other income = $60,987
    Company = $101,882

    But it gets better.

    Say the shares of the company were owned by a discretionary trust. The trustee of the trust could receive franked dividends from the company. There would be a tax credit for taxes the company has paid. This money could then come out potentially totally tax free to the 5 adults who are not working, assuming they are beneficiaries of this trust. That means no land tax at all and no income tax at all.

    But even if there are no non working adults the company can retain the income and once the person or persons behind the company has stopped work they can cause the company to make a dividend payment to them, via the trust, when their income is low enough to maximise the use of the franking credits. It is therefore also possible that they could end up getting the money out of the company totally tax free and land tax free.

    ==

    get your own legal and tax advice before trying this at home

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    Only if you establish it as your main residence.

    Only if you establish it as your main residence before renting it out.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    Slightly messy. To minimise CGT you would have to “give” your land to the developer before construction, and would then have little to no certainty you’d get a unit in return. Be very careful and talk to a solicitor first.

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    Not necessarily. Many ways to structure something like this. Will depend on a lot of things though

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    carefully read the loan agreements though. Not completely safe.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    I have written about the benefits of using a company before. The major benefit in NSW is that a company gets a separate land tax threshold where as a trust gets no threshold. This could save nearly $7k per year in land tax which makes up for losing out in CGT when sold. Also a company can retain income and pass on franking dividends down the track so potentially zero tax.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    Only if you establish it as your main residence.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    I think I have answered this question before. Doing what you are proposing won’t change the deductibiilty of interest at all. You are just shuffling money around. It is the purpose and use of the borrowed funds that determines deductibility.

    If you sell a property the interest associated with a loan used to purchase that property (whether original or refinanced) will no long be deductible as there is no income to deduct it against s 8-1 ITAA97

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    Check out ss 120 – 121A Bankruptcy act and s37A conveyancing act for starters.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    Which state is the property in ? If it is in Vic you might be eligible to do a spousal transfer….

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    Jac – should be exempt from duty in all states due to marriage breakdown.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    What is the question?

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    mainly seeking structuring advice. Any advice would be great.

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    Only lawyers can give structuring advice. Top lawyer would be cheaper.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    Here is an article that i wrote

    Parents Helping Adult Children

    Many parents want to help their (adult) children financially. The common way they do this is to just either hand over a large sum of cash (or bank transfer).

    There are 3 main issues to consider before doing this:

    Bankruptcy of either parent or child

    death of either

    divorce/separation of the child

    If the child ends up bankrupt the parent then argues that the money they transferred was really a loan. But there is no evidence of an agreement. There is also no security taken, so if the parent did lend the money to the child at best they would be an unsecured creditor.

    Of course if the parent were to go bankrupt it would have been better that the money was a gift. In this case planning which parent lends or gifts can be important – perhaps the parent least at risk would be the better choice.

    If the parent dies other family members may argue that the transaction was a loan. the executor may need to sue the child to recover the money so it can be passed via the will. If the child dies then the parent’s money may go via the child’s will to others – perhaps the spouse who could then remarry. You want some control. You also want to avoid costly legal fees if there is a legal argument of gift v loan.

    Often when the child’s relationship breaks down the parents will claim the money was a loan and try to recover it. This is to reduce the chances of the money ending up with the spouse in the property settlement. Naturally the family courts are suspicious of these sudden ‘loans’ unless there is evidence.

    Solution – decide before transferring if the transaction is a loan or a gift and document it either way. If it is a loan consider taking security – a second mortgage for example. You will then be a secured creditor.

    http://www.Terryw.com.au

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    If it is a gift then no. if it is income disguised as a gift then yes it would be taxable.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    Think asset protection upon bankruptcy, death, incapacity and family law.

    A loan is usually better – doesn’t need to be at an interest ate.

    Neither gifts or loan proceeds are taxable.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    Its income as money recovered. Just claim the amount you paid.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    The only way to pay less tax is to have a lower taxable income.

    2 ways to have a lower income are
    1. earn less or
    2. claim more deductions

    Earning less could be
    1. working work
    2. spending on things that are deductible
    3. salary sacrificing into super

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    Why buy to only sell. Why not just keep.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    This is known as buyers remorse – most people suffer from it.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    s43 Duties act – no mention of love

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    You wouldn’t want to transfer it for love and affection as you wouldn’t be able to claim any interest. Asset protection issues too. You need to buy it for full market value.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

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