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  • Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,213

    If you have non deductible debt then you should have the offset account on this loan. If you set up a second one on an investment loan you will end up paying more tax.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    The title is unlikely to pass to you until you pay the final payment.

    They could be just  after the initial $1k, but probably would like to make more by getting you into the house. They will likely charge you a premium on the rent and a premium on the price you pay for it. if prices are rising then this can work in your favour, but when prices are flat then you will be paying more than if you were renting a similar property elsewhere.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    Hi Ossi

    Firstly, you have little equity and virtually none that is usable. But this will come hopefully.

    The trouble with 2 on title is 2 on loans. So you and the friend would need to apply for an increase. Both of you incomes etc would need to be proven again. You would both be jointly and severally liable. It could be possible to get the LOC in one name with the other person guaranteeing it. Its a bit messy, but not much can be done about it. Also, if you friend suddenly had bad credit – you could be denied the loan.

    So assuming you set a LOC up in both names, you should also do a loan agreement with him lending you half of the money you have taken out. This may not be necessary, but you never know and it could come in handy if audited down the track.

    You can also get a new loan and have it stand alone with the existing propert playing no part. ie not used for security in anyway. Even the LOC won't be secured on this property. You could pay the LOC back although for tax reasons it may be better not to.

    If you do pay the LOC becareful because he could withdraw or start using it. This could happen at any stage. so maybe request 2 to sign.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    oscar1 wrote:
    Terryw wrote:
    Few comments:

    If you borrow extra and leave it in redraw it will be treated as a new loan once money is withdrawn from the redraw. Deductibility will depend on how the funds are used. If you take money for rates etc then it would generally be deductible. But if you transfer the money from redraw to an offset account to write a cheque, then the interest would not generally be deductible as the funds would no longer be borrowings.

    It won't be a good idea to take money from the same loan as your PPOR debt unless it is a different split. This would be mxing loans and you could still claim some of hte interest but it will be messy to work out and other problems if you are paying PI.

    From what I've read, it should be ok to empty a transactional account, place funds equal to the outgoing amount in there, then pay the outgoings on the IP. This way I'm not 'mixing urine with water' so to speak.

    I will certainly not be redrawing from the PPOR loan whilst the property is still my PPOR. But once it converts to an IP in the next 12 months this will be a different story.

    I would even be wary of using an account with no funds. Once the borrowed funds hit it they are no longer borrowed.

    Be careful with withdrawing from the PPOR loan.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    I odn't think part IVA could apply unless you were paying interest with further borrowings in a scheme like fashion to enable you to pay down your PPOR loan faster – and even then only maybe.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    Post Count: 16,213

    Few comments:

    If you borrow extra and leave it in redraw it will be treated as a new loan once money is withdrawn from the redraw. Deductibility will depend on how the funds are used. If you take money for rates etc then it would generally be deductible. But if you transfer the money from redraw to an offset account to write a cheque, then the interest would not generally be deductible as the funds would no longer be borrowings.

    It won't be a good idea to take money from the same loan as your PPOR debt unless it is a different split. This would be mxing loans and you could still claim some of hte interest but it will be messy to work out and other problems if you are paying PI.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    I am a solicitor with knowledge of trusts and I would like to offer that I have a look at the trust set up for you to see if I can help or make some suggestions.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    I think LOCs would be great if it wasn't for the tax issues. I would recomend people NOT use them for the main loan because of this. Only for accessing equity.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    surfsup008 wrote:
    Hi Paul,

    Thanks for your info. I understand how that structure would work. The other important point to raise which I forgot to make clear in initial post is that the investor would be looking to pay for the entire process… ie 100% cash for property and 100% cash for renos (it should be noted investor is not in the mafia.. these are lower priced houses). I understand this is not the best investing strategy, but he wants to avoid financing.

    So I guess in this situation we're trying to work out what percentage share our services are worth in the deal. Ie if we source the property, facilitate the reno and ideally increase the equity then what is this worth in terms of % share in the home? Do we charge a management fee for the process and take a 20 or 30% share? or less? And cashflow (rent) is returned to the investor as theirs no mortgage to be paid?

    Of course a property specialist solictor would need to put together an agreement covering us all.

    cheers,

    Harry

    I would have suggested what Paul suggested, but with him putting up cash that will change things. Maybe just give him a larger percentage by giving more % of units in the unit trust.

    Are you going to mortgage these properties to get loans later?

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    waydo77 wrote:
    so would the best way going forward be to put the next ip in my name or joint with my partner or even in a trust structure/business entity is what i am asking? i just hear all the time that it is bad to buy property in your own name and better to buy through a trust structure or business entity? do you have offices in adelaide richard? cheers

    Define 'best'!?

    I personally would never buy anything in my own name, but each one's personal circumstances and situation are different.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    Redrawing funds to reno or use on that property would make the loan deductible when the property is rented out – but you would have expended the funds anyway.

    Sharve's post has merit. Especially in VIC where there may be no stamp duty payable.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    6 years is the limit, but you may be able to claim a partial exemption at least. Best to save as much as you can. Check with your accountant.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    If you have been absent less than 6 years you could possibly claim the first house as your main residence and sell it CGT free.

    But the new house will be subject to CGT.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    If you borrow extra on IP 1 to pay for the loan on IP 2 then sell IP2 the interest on IP1 new loan wll no longer be deductible because you have sold the property the loan relates to.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    The loan amount after redraw would not be completely deductible. The redrawn $50,000 would be treated as a separate loan. Since you have borrowed this to park into a separate account the interest would not be deductible.

    This is why it is important to get the structure right. If this really did happen, ie you were $50,000 ahead in your home loan and then wanted to move out and rent it, thent he lost deduductions would be the interest on the $50k = $3,500 pa. This means every year you could have beeb claiming $3,500 more in tax deductions. Think of the compounding effect that savings could have had.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    heaps of issues with structuring.

    If you have paid off your main residence you may want to consider using a discretionary trust,

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    If you had a $500,000 loan and borrowed $400,000 off your friend and placed it in the offset and paid him 3% then:
    $100,000 at 7%
    $400,000 at 3%
    = better off for you.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    Possibly income tax rather than capital gains. Costs will be appoortioned between the two. GST likely to be payable too.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    probably because of the recent flood of spam messages. One spammer had 246 posts up in a matter of hours os I think some of hte replies here have been deleted because they were spam.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    It is largely too late now as you have used the money, but using a DT could give some additional asset protection. You may even be able to set up a post death TT for up to 3 years see s102AG ITAA 1936. This may be tricky though it you have spend the cash and it cannot be traced.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

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