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  • Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    What about the temporary absence provisions under the Land Tax Act (VIC)
    see s56
    http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/vic/consol_act/lta200590/s56.html

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    In my opinion it would be unlikely that interest would be deductible  on any money borrowed and placed into an offset account and then later used for investment.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    jaiterry wrote:
    Now there is an interesting proposition… item C. I have a considerable amount of equity in my home (>50%). Perhaps there is a solution in there for my scenario. Regards jaiterry

    But what would you be borrowing for? for the purchase of a new PPOR? if so then the interest wouldn't be deductible.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    I am not sure what you can do. but you have to be careful as you could pay the builder a progress payment and then the builder go under without doing the work.

    You also have to be careful about supplies taking back goods which they have supplied the builder and they have not received payments for – the supplier will often retain title to goods until they are paid. So they could try to come back and remove hotwater systems etc.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    1. means the electricity commission may be exploring for petroleum on that land some time in the future!

    2. means s149 cert is not update in terms of zoning. How old is the s149 certificate included in the contract?

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    A SMSF cannot purchase from related parties. But one exception is business real property. This is defined to include leasehold property – ie the land with the building as being part of hte land. The SMSF couldn't buy hte building from a related party unless it is attached to the land.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    Sometimes it may be necessary to pay down a loan.

    eg. imagine you have a $100,000 property with a $90,000 loan. Interest only. You also have an offset account and $50,000 in it.

    If you want to purchase an investment property what would you do?

    A. If you took the money from the offset then you would be increasing the non deductible interest on your home loan

    B. If you take the money from the offset and pay down the PPOR loan and then reborrow it you will save interest. But if you later were to move out of hte PPOR and rent it you would have reduced your deductible debt.

    C a solution would be to keep the cash in the offset and to borrow against any equity in the PPOR and use this to invest. But this may not be possible if the property hasn't grown in value.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    It would likely that the deductibel part of the loan would be much less than $274,000 – even if this was the lowest balance.

    This is demonstrated by a quick eg:

    $300,000 loan starting balance.
    pay down $1,000 per month PI
    Interest $500 each month

    Month 1
    balance is $299,500

    Month 2 $299,000

    etc

    Then after 10 months balance is $295,000.

    If you then pay the loan down to $274,000 and then realise your mistake – you may increase teh loan to $295,000 again.

    But of this $295,000 you could only attribute $274,000 of it to the purchase of that property. The extra $21,000 redrawn is a new loan. The deductibility of this would depend on the use of this money.

    Now you have a mixed purpose loan.
    $21,000 used for other expenses
    $274,000 used for the purchase of that property



    $295,000 in total

    This means that
    21,000 / 295,000 = 7.1% other
    92.9% for the home portion

    Now it gets more complicated

    Each subsequent repayment must come off the loan and be attributed to each portion in accordance with the percentage of the portions.

    So each month you pay $1000
    7% must come off the other portion
    93% must come off the house portion

    Interest of $500 would be added each month and this too must be added to each portion of the loan
    7%
    93%

    as you can see as time goes on it gets increasingly complex.

    The net effect is that a must lower portion of your loan will be attributable to the purchase of the house and so if this house becomes an investment property you will only be able to claim a lower portion then the $274,000 which was the minimum balance before.

    Does this make sense?

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    Refinancing won't change things if it is contaminated. but you will be able to separate the portions and claim interest on what is left of the claimable portion.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    jaiterry wrote:
    Hi, My wife and I have only our PPOR which we plow all our savings into in order to reduce our interest. Initially (before knowing better) we made extra repayments into the homeloan but now we simply place additional funds into our mortgage offset account. The problem is we have been redrawing on and off for a while on the home loan to the tune of about $92K over the years. The last transaction was $55K simply to remove all additional repayments and have that cash sitting in the offset account. I thought this last transaction was a way to ensure that any future use of the money would allow interest deductions but now I'm not so sure. I can't see how I will prove that the money was used to invest (which it hasn't been yet). Not to mention the other $37K which happened gradually. I have about $125K in the offset account now – is it simplest just to throw $92K back into the homeloan and then redraw one lumpsum when I am ready to invest? Any other advice? Appreciate any help – we are looking to move out and turn our PPOR into investment as well as investing in more property so I am worried I won't be able to claim interest deductions on that $92K portion now. I don't have an accountant (yet – I'm shopping) so not sure how quickly I need to act to rectify this Thanks

    If this house will never be rented then it won't be a problem. If it will be rented it could be worse than you think as a very large portion of the loan woudn't be deductible.

    For further investments you should not redraw from the loan – as then you will have a mxied loan. You should set up an entirely new split.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    johnoj wrote:
    I am intending to purchase my first of many investment properties in the near future and was hoping to get some advice regarding the best ownership structure. I understand the benefits of trust ownership for asset protection and tax minimization and am planning to use this structure to purchase properties. However how do trusts work in regards to initial costs and losses, i.e. are the purchase costs and expenses initially incurred by me personally tax deductible, or does the trust structure void this link? If the investment was negatively geared are these expenses a tax deduction?

    I am also wondering if anyone has a recommendation for a lawyer and/or accountant in the central Melbourne area who is experienced with investment properties.

    Thanks

    You must distinguish yourself from the trust. Just think the trust is another person, for example.

    If Bob purchased a property could Bill claim any deductions? Nope.

    If Bob makes a loss can this be used to offset Bills income? Nope – generally, but there may be limited ways around this.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    your PPOR should only be security for the LOC (and original loan). The IP should be the only security for hte investment loan.

    You should not be paying the investment loan fortnightly as this would mean extra repayments – these should be going to the PPOR loan (not the loc) as this is non deductible.

    IO would revert to PI.

    Why is the loc interest rate so high? If that with a different bank?

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    In that example the unit holder wouldn't be entitled to the 100% of the deductions on the interest because they are not entitled to 100% of hte income and CG of the trust.

    There is a good thread about htis topic on somersoft – started by Chris Batten.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    u36ma wrote:
    What I've taken from all this and my own research is:
    – Appropriate landlord insurance will take care of your risk of being sued by the tenant.
    – The HDT doesn't offer any legal tax benefits over and above having the properties under your own name.
    – There is a high cost of setting up and maintaining trusts with little personal benefit.
    – There may be a benefit for avoiding family disputes over inheritence (but who cares if you're dead?).

    Leaves me wondering why anyone would do it!

    Let me respond in order
    1. Yes, insure for all risks
    2. There are some tax benefits – see below – and general structuring benefits
    3. Yes
    4. Depends who owns the units – units are property so would be dealt with under a will whereas the trustee owned assets such as hte house wouldn't.

    I think that hyrbids can still be useful even if it wouldn't seem to give any benefits initially.

    Imagine a HDT buys a property. X borrows to buy units. 10 years down the track the property has double in value. X thinks it is time that this property was placed into a discretionary trust. If the property was in his own name he would have to sell it to the trust – title deeds would change.

    But as this is in a HDT – which is essentially a unit trust at this stage – he has 2 options:
    1. Transfer the units to a discretionary trust – stamp duty and CGT would apply. But not change in trustee or legal owner – ie no change in title.
    2. The trustee could buy back the units from X. CGT and stamp duty would apply.

    Stamp duty would generally be cheaper to transfer units than the transfer land. CGT could be reduced by selling the units in stages over  a few years. And with 2 the trustee could borrow to buy the units and to claim the interest on this as a deduction.

    It may also be possible to transfer teh units to a SMSF near retirement – many issues involved here.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    The company would be merely a beneficiary and any acts it does would be separate to the trust so it being sued shouldn't effect the trust – the units would be held by the individuals and at risk if they are sued.

    But, what are you trying to achieve? getting money into the trust with asset protection probably?

    To do that in this scenario you would have to have the shares of the company owned by the trust or to have the trustee of the trust being the company.

    If a trustee of a trust is sued in relation to their role as trustee (such as a tenant suing the landlord) the the assets of the trust would be at risk because the trustee would be indemnified out of the trust assets.

    If you had the company acting in its own right then this could work – but then you wouldn't get all the benefits of the trust such as income retaining its character and the 50% CGT discount.

    You could do it with a separate trust and then have the income distributed to the hybrid trust. But this may not work as you expect as the unit holders would need to borrow to buy income producing property – which the empty trust structure probbaly woudn't allow.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    mcgrandles wrote:
    Terryw wrote:
    Yes, could be done but would be very costly and you would probably need a prospectus lodged with ASIC.

    Also many tax issues.

    thanks for your help i have tried to sell my house for so long now with 2 sales fall through because of finance a friend suggested i split the house into shares what else can i do to i need to sell and move asap 

    Forget the selling in portions bit – it just won't work.

    Recently it took me 14 months to sell a property – you may have to reduce the price further and change agents to get a result.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    I don't know if that is correct – claiming before renting.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    A caveat is notice to everyone that someone else has an interest in the property. It may or may not prevent the dealing with that property – such as mortgaging it or changing names. However someone with a caveat could have their interest take priority over your interest.

    eg. in NSW there is a case Black v Garnot. I forgot who is who, but the seller of the property had money problems. The purchaser paid the 10% deposit and on the day of settlement the solicitor checked the title – looking for any last minute caveats. After checking they went to settlement – about 2 hrs later. It was during this time that someone who had a debt owed and had a judgment actually lodged a caveat on the title. They had a writ to take possession of the property and the question was who had the greater priority – the person with the writ or the person who had paid the deposit but hadn't settled yet.

    It turned out that both had interests in the property and both could have protected these itnerests by lodging a caveat. The one who lodged first was deemed to have prority over the one who didn't.

    Therefore in NSW now it is recommended that lawyers advise clients purchasing proerties that they should lodge a caveat after exchange of contracts.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    Sounds like you need a lawyer first. Many issues to consider

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    Yes, could be done but would be very costly and you would probably need a prospectus lodged with ASIC.

    Also many tax issues.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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