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  • Profile photo of Steve McKnightSteve McKnight
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    @stevemcknight
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    Hi Lioudmila,

    Thanks for your post and I hope you are enjoying the book. Nice to know I was under an Xmas tree [:)]

    Welcome to the community and thanks for posting. I moved your post to the PropertyPlus area as that is a better spot for it.

    I’ve read your situation with interest. Once I went to the bank for finance and they said that they would lend me $X provided I had the equivalent in cash in a savings account.

    How much interest will you give me on my deposit… 4% How much interest do I pay on my loan…8% Er, why would I have this arrangement?

    I think the same holds true for you. You might find that these days you can find a good cash mngt account that offers higher interest as term deposits are becoming a thing of the past as the financial market matures.

    Now, the first thing we need to do is differentiate b/w your home and your IP. One is lifestyle the other is investing.

    In terms of your IP, by paying cash you have no leverage which makes your CoCR very low. Still, at least you’ll have +ve cashflow as you have no interest. Nevertheless, your money can work harder for you than what is presently the case.

    Some suggestions:

    *Take a mortgage against your existing property and then place a large slab of your TD as a 100% mortgage interest account. It will be at call and will allow you to expand similar to a LOC without the need for cash security.

    *Once you borrow against your IP and use the cash for elsewhere your property will become -vely geared. As such your property will become a growth asset which means you’ll need to consider your investing strategy moving forwartd. Decide on this b4 you buy anything else and also set your benchmark rate of return against which you can evaluate various investments.

    You’re in a good position, but the key will be to maximise your returns from hereonin.

    Well, that’s my 2c worth.

    Have a great day,

    Steve McKnight

    **********
    Remember that success comes from doing things differently.
    **********

    Steve McKnight | PropertyInvesting.com Pty Ltd | CEO
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    Success comes from doing things differently

    Profile photo of Steve McKnightSteve McKnight
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    @stevemcknight
    Join Date: 2001
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    Hi SIS,

    A couple of points to note (albeit perhaps at the complicated end of the discussion):

    quote:


    See with a Family Trust, you can only have +ve cashflow assets, were as hybrid you are able to have -ve geared and +ve geared properties that run at a lost or profit.


    Well, you can do the same in a family trust too. Indeed, the issue of trust loss provisions is very complicated, but the same essence is true… you cannot distribute a loss from a trust, instead it is accumulated and carried forward.

    In the case of a family trust, an income loss (as opposed to a cap loss) would offset the income and the nett profit distributed or the nett loss accumulated and c/f.

    quote:


    Hybrid trust has both similaritites of unit trust and family trust, there are more tax advantages as well.


    Hmmmm – I don’t think this is correct… what are the additional tax advantages?

    quote:


    With Hybrid trust you have more flexibility in sacking and appointing a new trustee.


    Perhaps, but I’ve never seen this advertised as a benefit before. In truth, the trustee appointment / removal provision of most trusts are the same as the wording is similar.

    quote:


    Hybrid trust also gives you the flexibility to distribute different amounts to the beneficearies.


    This is possibly ture, but it depends on the circumstances of the structure. The same effect can be gained from a family turst where the Trustee distributes according to a formula (ie %) rather than $.

    quote:


    Theres lots of things, but has more advantages than Family Trust.


    Hmmmm. I don’t necessarily agree. I haven’t ever used a hybrid trust and I don’t think I’m the poorer for it.

    quote:


    A big disadvantage, is that many accountants dont understand Hybrid Trust


    This may be true, but most qualified accountants – and certainly all tax professionals would know the hybrid trust drill.

    quote:


    Other thing too. Trustes dont pay tax


    Mate – this is wrong. Trusts DO pay tax on any undistributed profits, and the Trustee pays it (on behalf of the trust) at the top magringal rate (48.5%) from dollar one.

    Cheers,

    Steve McKnight

    **********
    Remember that success comes from doing things differently.
    **********

    Steve McKnight | PropertyInvesting.com Pty Ltd | CEO
    https://www.propertyinvesting.com

    Success comes from doing things differently

    Profile photo of Steve McKnightSteve McKnight
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    @stevemcknight
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    Hi Hissho,

    Happy New Year Back…

    Well, call me a cynic, but let’s say that you have a property with a maket value of $1m.

    I come to you and say “Here’s what I’ll do… I’ll pay you $10 for the right to buy the property for $1.5m, open for the next six months.”

    What would you probably say to a boffin wanting to pay 150% of market value? Yep – done!

    Then what I do is run a seminar and sell the property I’ve secured the right to buy for $10 on the basis that it will be 5 new A-Grade apartments.

    My budget profit, even after paying the inflated price, is substantial – provided I can find the people to buy from me after value-adding. When demand drops what do I do, maybe run some more seminars…???…

    The bottom line – I have tied up $1.5m worth of property (after all, if I paid that for it it must be worth at least that) for just $10.

    If I can’t sell the concept then all I lose is $10.

    Starting to get the picture?

    Cheers,

    Steve McKnight

    **********
    Remember that success comes from doing things differently.
    **********

    Steve McKnight | PropertyInvesting.com Pty Ltd | CEO
    https://www.propertyinvesting.com

    Success comes from doing things differently

    Profile photo of Steve McKnightSteve McKnight
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    Hi Piscies,

    Sorry, re-reading my post it may have sounded dismissive re: deposits. Apologies.

    Just working through what the issue re: small deposits to flesh out the discussion, are you suggesting:

    A. The vendor carryies back a second mortgage for the deposit shortfall between sale price and what the bank finance?; or

    B. The vendor offers terms (instalment sale) on a low deposit basis?

    Just clarifying…

    Thanks,

    Steve McKnight

    **********
    Remember that success comes from doing things differently.
    **********

    Steve McKnight | PropertyInvesting.com Pty Ltd | CEO
    https://www.propertyinvesting.com

    Success comes from doing things differently

    Profile photo of Steve McKnightSteve McKnight
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    Hi again,

    Back after lunch…

    I’m not a big fan of hybrid trusts. The main advantage is that a hybrid allows you to have a fixed and floating entitlement, yet for most investors all that’s required is a properly set up family trust (fully floating).

    In other words, a family trust allows you to share profits however you like and you can just keep the distribution equal or otherwise. That is… what’s the benefit of locking in?

    Invariably hybrid trusts are more complicated and thus require more accounting fees to keep compliance under control.

    Perhaps the only point of difference is when you are pooling funds from many investors across various families and the idea of setting up partnerships of family trusts is not appealing from a risk perspective.

    The product you mention (WealthGuardian) does not venture into into realm of hybrid trusts as I deemed it too complicated and something better kept to professional advice in the right circumstances.

    Cheers,

    Steve McKnight

    **********
    Remember that success comes from doing things differently.
    **********

    Steve McKnight | PropertyInvesting.com Pty Ltd | CEO
    https://www.propertyinvesting.com

    Success comes from doing things differently

    Profile photo of Steve McKnightSteve McKnight
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    @stevemcknight
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    Hi Piscies,

    Just watch out… a coy does not qualify for the CGT discount. It needs to flow through to an individual.

    SIS has the right idea… you can have a corporate trustee for a trust and so long as the cap gain flows through to an individual the CGT discount applies.

    Cheers,

    Steve McKnight

    **********
    Remember that success comes from doing things differently.
    **********

    Steve McKnight | PropertyInvesting.com Pty Ltd | CEO
    https://www.propertyinvesting.com

    Success comes from doing things differently

    Profile photo of Steve McKnightSteve McKnight
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    @stevemcknight
    Join Date: 2001
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    Hi,

    I’ve moved your post to this forum…

    I started by reading and attending Kiyosaki events, and then read and studied more broadly.

    Seminars

    Travelled the world to see:

    R. Kiyosaki*
    J. Burley*
    R. LeGrand*
    D. Campbell*
    R. Aaron*
    D. Kennedy*
    R. Allen*

    Books

    Read a lot (one day I’ll compile a list), but for starters:

    George Clason : Richest Man in Bablyon is the best place to start.

    For those new to wealth creation, J. Burley’s book “Money Secrets of the Rich” is great value.

    These days I’m more into biographys.. such as Packer’s, Lowy’s, Bond’s etc. to try and learn from people who have done it big.

    General Comments

    I’ll not pull any punches… personally I don’t value the ethics / morals of some of the people I’ve listed above. Others have unashamably ripped me off and thrown daggers at my back. Still, I’m more interested in finding ideas that I can make owrk within my own ethical/moral framework.

    I recommend that you spend a lot of money on educating yourself… BUT, and only but, you recoup the cost by taking immediate action.

    An academic investor isn’t much use.

    Cheers,

    Steve McKnight

    **********
    Remember that success comes from doing things differently.
    **********

    Steve McKnight | PropertyInvesting.com Pty Ltd | CEO
    https://www.propertyinvesting.com

    Success comes from doing things differently

    Profile photo of Steve McKnightSteve McKnight
    Keymaster
    @stevemcknight
    Join Date: 2001
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    Hi,

    Yeah mate… just be careful though as you’ll lose the 50% CGT discount if the income is taxed as ordinary income.

    You need to weigh up the pros and cons.

    See ya,

    Steve McKnight

    **********
    Remember that success comes from doing things differently.
    **********

    Steve McKnight | PropertyInvesting.com Pty Ltd | CEO
    https://www.propertyinvesting.com

    Success comes from doing things differently

    Profile photo of Steve McKnightSteve McKnight
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    @stevemcknight
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    Hi Rebecca,

    HK came unstuck in a big way because, after an ASIC investigation that didn’t come up with any dirt, he advertised that he was “ASIC Approved” to try and get more people to his seminar.

    This, of course, was a stupid play on words and in fact was the ammunition ASIC needed to bring him unstuck. He was made to refund people who attended (or signed up to attend) his courses on the basis of it being ASIC approved.

    Indeed, what then happened was a stack of bad press so anyone who had a change of mind about forking out a stack of cash relied on the ASIC refund demand.

    Alas for HK, he presumably was running a show that paid for today’s expenses out of tomorrow’s income (seminar in advance revenue) and when people wanted refunds, the white elephant finally died after a death of 1,000 cuts.

    It goes just to show that you can’t fool all of the people all of the time.

    Cheers,

    Steve McKnight

    **********
    Remember that success comes from doing things differently.
    **********

    Steve McKnight | PropertyInvesting.com Pty Ltd | CEO
    https://www.propertyinvesting.com

    Success comes from doing things differently

    Profile photo of Steve McKnightSteve McKnight
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    @stevemcknight
    Join Date: 2001
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    Hi,

    It’s not hard to ‘secure’ property.

    Pay a few thousand for the option to buy it at an agreed price and, hey presto!, you’ve secured it.

    I’d imagine that HK did as he proclaimed, as the ACCC must have investigated this on the basis of if it did not occur then it would be false and misleading advertising.

    Cheers,

    Steve McKnight

    **********
    Remember that success comes from doing things differently.
    **********

    Steve McKnight | PropertyInvesting.com Pty Ltd | CEO
    https://www.propertyinvesting.com

    Success comes from doing things differently

    Profile photo of Steve McKnightSteve McKnight
    Keymaster
    @stevemcknight
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 1,763

    Hi,

    lol

    Thanks to all for replying; this was not meant to be a chance for me to ‘pat myself on the back’.

    Hey Peter… thanks for the comments about the book and indeed your review of other books too. It’s a very helpful analysis and goes to show there’s more than one way to skin the property investing cat!

    Karen… I’ll hunt out your post and reply to it now… <<Hmmm… can’t find it! What was the topic and which forum is it in?>>

    quote:


    ” Risky ” – Looking forward to your next book…


    Cough, slutter, hiccup… I’m already losing enough hair! But if I did write another book… what should it be about?

    Cheers,

    Steve McKnight

    **********
    Remember that success comes from doing things differently.
    **********

    Steve McKnight | PropertyInvesting.com Pty Ltd | CEO
    https://www.propertyinvesting.com

    Success comes from doing things differently

    Profile photo of Steve McKnightSteve McKnight
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    Hi redwing,

    Great post… I’ve just moved it to heads up where it would be more apprpriately placed.

    Thanks for your continued and much appreciated involvement here on the forums.

    Happy New Year,

    Steve McKnight

    **********
    Remember that success comes from doing things differently.
    **********

    Steve McKnight | PropertyInvesting.com Pty Ltd | CEO
    https://www.propertyinvesting.com

    Success comes from doing things differently

    Profile photo of Steve McKnightSteve McKnight
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    Hi,

    What I should also say is that most businesses fail because they have supply but no demand and need to use debt to fund losses.

    What I try to do is let demand drive supply.

    In your context, you need to have orders before going down the track and outlaying too much $$$.

    As Richmond says, you’ll need a prototype, but sell the concept rather than the product and get some money in to cover R&D costs.

    Richmond – mate, that seems like a good client base. Not sure about the wraps dvd though as that is more educational than it is sales related. There would need to be a new angle and I’m not sure the cost warrants the product given the limited demand.

    Cheers,

    Steve McKnight

    **********
    Remember that success comes from doing things differently.
    **********

    Steve McKnight | PropertyInvesting.com Pty Ltd | CEO
    https://www.propertyinvesting.com

    Success comes from doing things differently

    Profile photo of Steve McKnightSteve McKnight
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    Hi,

    I’ve moved this to ‘PropertyPlus’…

    Well, IMHO,

    A. If it meets you’re investing criteria for required ROI = keep it.

    B. If you don’t have a required ROI, set one and monitor the situation for a few months.

    C. If it does not meet your required ROI, either look for ways of increasing the return or else, if all else fails or you just want out, sell – remembering that selling will trigger a taxable event for CGT purposes.

    Cheers,

    Steve McKnight

    **********
    Remember that success comes from doing things differently.
    **********

    Steve McKnight | PropertyInvesting.com Pty Ltd | CEO
    https://www.propertyinvesting.com

    Success comes from doing things differently

    Profile photo of Steve McKnightSteve McKnight
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    Hi SIS,

    Happy New Year mate!

    Drats… I was hoping I wouldn’t be asked that. Sadly, there is no easy or definitive answer (like buy and sell XX properties and you’re a trader).

    It’s a matter that needs to be discussed with your tax adviser to determine if you are in the business of buying and selling property.

    quote:


    So how do We Distinguish a “Business” from None Business? The Australian Tax Office does not require that a business is making a profit to be a “business” – or that something making a profit is a “business”. It has the following critera for it to be more likely to be “business” if:-

    (1)large scale operation and/or
    (2)involves employees and/or
    (3)frequent acts/transactions and/or
    (4)conducted with a view to profit and/or
    (5)profitable and/or
    (6)conducted over a long period and/or
    (7)conducted continuously and systematically and/or
    (8)in commercial premises and/or
    (9)involves items typically dealt with commercially and/or
    (10involves exercise of specialized knowledge and/or
    (11)significant capital investment and/or
    (12)business records kept and/or
    (13)full-time and/or
    (14)market research done and/or
    (15)associated with other commercial activities of taxpayer and/or
    (16)existence of business organization, registered business name and/or
    (17)advertising and/or
    (18)active –


    Source:http://www.goldcoastcroquet.com.au/business/Busines1.htm

    As you can see… it is not ‘cut and dry’.

    Cheers,

    Steve McKnight

    **********
    Remember that success comes from doing things differently.
    **********

    Steve McKnight | PropertyInvesting.com Pty Ltd | CEO
    https://www.propertyinvesting.com

    Success comes from doing things differently

    Profile photo of Steve McKnightSteve McKnight
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    Hmmm….

    I must have missed something here… a good post turned (in the words of Tony Greig) “Nasty”.

    Richmond has my unqualified support – he does an ace job in difficult circumstances.

    Think happy thoughts… and be nice to the other kids in the playground [^]

    6 month lease

    This seems like a Vendor’s each way bet to me. If they do sell then a six month lease won’t turn too many buyers (who want vacant possession) off, but if they don’t then at least they have income.

    Sometimes it’s a good idea for purchasers, in this circumstance (who want vacant possession rather that the tenant) to:

    1. Request vacant possession and organise settlement for one week after the tenancy lapses. This will give the purchaser some time (a few months) to sit back and benefit from any cap gains.

    Be aware that each State has its own laws about how much notice must be given to tenants, so even if there is a six month lease you may need to allow another 30+ days from the date notice to vacate is given.

    2. Include a condition that the property must be sold in the same (or better) condition (you’ll need evidence such as photos or a condition report) than at the time of inspection and indeed, the vendor must pay for the property to be professionally cleaned and sprayed for pests.

    All too often I’ve seen a property sold on long settlements ‘let go’ by the vendor on the basis that there is no point keeping it clean… it’s sold anyway.

    Yes… I’ve been caught out like this, but it won’t happen again!

    Cheers,

    Steve McKnight

    **********
    Remember that success comes from doing things differently.
    **********

    Steve McKnight | PropertyInvesting.com Pty Ltd | CEO
    https://www.propertyinvesting.com

    Success comes from doing things differently

    Profile photo of Steve McKnightSteve McKnight
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    Hi Ivan,

    Thanks for your post… welcome to the community and I’m delighted that you are enjoying the book.

    I’ve moved your post to property plus as it is more appropriate there.

    Sure – I could find 1000 reasons why it won’t work… but the key for any new business is to focus on reasons why it will work.

    I think you would be offering a product for a niche market. For example, you may find that you could find great demand in offshore investors who can’t get here to inspect property but would like to have CDs.

    My preference is for you to provide the technology direct to real estate agents rather than having to market the CDs too.

    It’s always a good idea to value-add, so what else could you do to the property analysis to help the investor? Eg. provide demographics info, median house price data, financial analysis etc.

    Be careful to include disclaimers etc. too.

    Give it a try and see what happens.

    Cheers,

    Steve McKnight

    **********
    Remember that success comes from doing things differently.
    **********

    Steve McKnight | PropertyInvesting.com Pty Ltd | CEO
    https://www.propertyinvesting.com

    Success comes from doing things differently

    Profile photo of Steve McKnightSteve McKnight
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    Hey Piscies133,

    Can’t you answer here in general terms so that we all might learn?

    I would have thought that the best person to answer this would be a mortgage broker who has access to a variety of loans.

    IMHO, provided you can prove your income and reliability of your job, and provided the security of the loan stacks up, I can’t see there being a big problem.

    As for a contact, try Stuart at prosolution (www.prosolution.com.au) +61 3 9909 7100.

    Happy New Year!

    Bye,

    Steve McKnight

    **********
    Remember that success comes from doing things differently.
    **********

    Steve McKnight | PropertyInvesting.com Pty Ltd | CEO
    https://www.propertyinvesting.com

    Success comes from doing things differently

    Profile photo of Steve McKnightSteve McKnight
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    @stevemcknight
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    Hi MC,

    Stagefright hey… lol [:)]

    Anyway, Simon is right. The cost(s) of selling the property (including legals, agent commission, advertising etc) is all deducted from your ‘profit’ with the balance most likely being taxed as a capital gain.

    The only exception is if you are in the business of buying and selling property, in which case there is no CGT as such, it is all taxed as ordinary income. In this case the costs of selling are treated as a normal tax deduction.

    In case you are confused, let’s flesh out an example.

    Parameters

    Property bought for $100,000 (after all costs) and sold 24 months later for $180,000. Sale costs (legals etc.) come to $5,000. Taxpayer is an individual.

    Example One – Investor

    Sale price: $180,000
    Net purchase price: ($100,000)
    Profit: $80,000
    Reduction in cost base – sale costs: ($5,000)
    Adj Profit: $75,000
    CG Discount (50%): ($37,500)
    Profit to be shown in ITR as Cap Gain: $37,500

    This will be taxed at the taxpayers appropriate marginal rate

    Example Two – Property Trader

    Sale price: $180,000
    Net purchase price: ($100,000)
    Profit: $80,000
    Tax deductions – sale costs: ($5,000)
    Profit to be shown in ITR as ordinary income: $75,000

    As to whether a taxpayer is an investor or a trader, there is a substance over form approach and several tests that the ATO applies. In the majority of cases though, unless you are regularly buying and selling property, most investment property taxpayers will not be traders.

    Hope this has helped.

    Happy New Year!

    Steve McKnight

    **********
    Remember that success comes from doing things differently.
    **********

    Steve McKnight | PropertyInvesting.com Pty Ltd | CEO
    https://www.propertyinvesting.com

    Success comes from doing things differently

    Profile photo of Steve McKnightSteve McKnight
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    Hi,

    Yeah… but you can’t then access the money until you retire. [:(]

    Plus you’ll get taxed on the way out too, so the return on offer is based on the best case scenario and not on all the facts.[:O]

    Alas for the pros and cons on super…

    Happy New Year!

    Steve McKnight

    **********
    Remember that success comes from doing things differently.
    **********

    Steve McKnight | PropertyInvesting.com Pty Ltd | CEO
    https://www.propertyinvesting.com

    Success comes from doing things differently

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