Forum Replies Created
Thanks for the kind words DWolfe
Yes Anthony I can most definitely help you out with what processes are taken in your development and who you will need to be contacting.
I would definitely recommend Pillar + Post for project managing from A-Z. Have had numerous fantastic reviews from customers I've recommended across whom I've done the survey work for.
All the best with your research.
Ash
Hi Buttercc,
It sounds like you're feeling a bit overwhelmed with the options presented in subdivision. In all developments the key is to look at all options in detail to work out the best possible solution for you.
I'd very much recommend having a Property Development Assessment undertaken by our colleagues at Pillar & Post http://pillarandpost.com.au/ to look at all the scenarios, numbers and feasibility. From here an informed decision on the direction of development can be made.
Also, I have some information packages on subdivision which I'm more than happy to email out if you'd like. Please feel free to ask if you have any questions, as myself and the other professionals on the forums are always happy to help.
Regards,
Surveyors can also do internal building surveys. More accurate than a draftie with a tape measure, but depends what level of detail and accuracy you are after.
Hi Darryl,
I definitely agree that there is a looming shortage of surveyors. We are booked about 1-2 weeks in advance, but as compared to this time last year the work load is significantly larger. I'm a bit scared about our peak season being May-Oct.
The problem with surveyors is it is an aging profession. How many people know what a surveyor is, let alone wan to be one. I know that in Vic the average registered surveyor is well into their 50's. I've been surveying about 7 years now, and had worked at 3 firms before branching out.
I have gone the university route of formal study (BA Applied Science- Surveying at RMIT) and it is in my opinion one of the hardest degrees on offer. Barely any of the original class made it through. The coursework is central to the older standards of surveying, where unbelievably high expectations were expected of each surveyor. Victoria has always placed much emphasis on this, but in this day and age it is a bit I've the top. Very few of my surveyor friends have also completed formal study for this reason. Obviously this restricts the work they can do which makes the qualified surveyor small in numbers.
Following the degree, you can undertake a licensing program of about 4 years which allows you to sign off on title work. Again seeming over the top for the work you actually do. Most fundamentals are learnt on the job. I hardly ever apply knowledge from my formal study.
I suppose it is good for younger companies such as mine to take advantage of the shortage, but I do worry for the future. The ACSV keeps telling everyone to charge unbelievably high amounts for work, but I feel in doing so it will just harm the competitiveness of the market.
Anyway some food for thought!
Ashley
Hi Craig,
You will be able to get through town planning with the structures in the backyard. At the closing stages of the subdivision the new block will have to be cleared and then the boundaries pegged, new fences put up etc. When you think about it, you now have two titles and your tenants are renting out the house on the front title. Therefore, what happens on the new lot is none of their concern.
It will be a bit of time after beginning the subdivision before you start clearing the backyard so you will have some time up your sleeve to give notice, discuss rent adjustment and such.
Cheers,
Homemade wrote:Hi Ash, was just about to post my very first query on the forum about how to kick off the process of splitting the block on an IP but luckily checked your post which answered all of my questions. Thanks! Do you have experience with doing these in Geelong and do you service the Geelong region? 800+m2 block with IP house in front corner, large side driveway, 500m2 backyard – sewer, power, water all seem to be located in good positions on/around the block. Cheers, Craig.Hi Craig,
Yes we have done quite a few subdivisions down your way. Just before Christmas we had a project in Corio with similar areas as your block. You'd probably be best sending an email through with the address and I can send through some information and where to go from here.
Regards,
Thanks Darryl. Appreciate the kind words.
TheFinanceShop wrote:Hi Ashley,Are you a town planner?
Regards
Shahin
Hi Shahin,
I am a land surveyor, not a town planner. As the director of my small business, I do make it a priority to spend as much spare time as possible refining my knowledge of planning schemes, processes and any amendments to these.
Land Surveyors are often the first point of call in developments, so it is critical in today's marketplace to have a very good understanding of planning schemes and the whole subdivision process- not just the parts that I'm directly involved with. I do however correspond with some fantastic town planners, architects and building designers who are more than happy to share knowledge to increase everyone's understanding.
Regards,
Ashley
Hi Bosco,
As you are not 100% on which direction to take with your project, you would definitely be best consulting with a private town planner and having a full Property Development Assessment undertaken. I would recommend contacting Breece at Pillar + Post http://pillarandpost.com.au/ as I can vouch for their excellent service and thorough assessments.
Also, as you're in Wantirna South (just around the corner from me), it would be worth your time downloading our spreadsheets from the following forum topic and having a read through. https://www.propertyinvesting.com/forums/adding/4347086
Cheers,
Ashley
Updated to include some edits made on all 3 documents. Thanks!
Ashley
Edited: Old information
Jye and Tahnee wrote:Hi Ashley,You're right there really are not many resources available that step you through the process of subdivision (a market for educating perhaps?). In saying that though as you've highlighted before, it can differ greatly between states and even councils within a state.
We're in Perth – subdivision is a strategy that we may be interested in pursuing. Are there any good surveyors you know of you would recommend?
Hi Jye and Tahnee,
I don't know any surveyors over in Perth unfortunately. This thread is the old flowchart posted up in 2012. The new version can be found here: http://www.mediafire.com/?3ww9ncg2bwm2kwt
I do agree that people are very keen on learning thing like this, so perhaps in the future I might have some online courses etc. Just don't have heaps of spare time! I've had fantastic feedback from this information and I'm glad that people are finding it very useful.
Also, moderators please delete old thread if possible
Aloha wrote:I'm planning a three unit development Melbourne and this has been very helpful in helping me plan the process. Thank You very muchHi Aloha,
I'm glad you found this useful. If you needed any clarifications please feel free to ask. I'm normally floating about the forums daily
Hi Dave,
You'll be best speaking with a professional with real experience. I'm yet to hear of a program that can replace years of knowledge in the industry (correct me if I'm wrong forum-ers!).
What city are you looking in? From your post I gather that you're looking at doing a development and sussing out which is the best use of the land.
Cheers,
Hi Urilla,
The simpler way to go about this is to firstly engage your designer/architect, surveyor, and town planner (if you don't feel comfortable managing professionals yourself). You'll need to get the planning application sorted initially which will need a site survey and at minimum some basic building footprints to be designed.
From here, the subdivision is next to be completed. Again this is done by your surveyor. If you are building then this will most often run around the outline of the new dwelling, so isn't entirely completed until you've got some bricks down. Alternatively if you do a land only subdivision then this will be completed immediately after the planning permit. I've put a subdivision flow chart up in the adding value section as well as our website which would be worth a read.
Cheers,
JacM wrote:Thanks for Sharing Ashley!No worries at all- glad I can shed some light on the subdivision process. Doesn't seem to be much at all available on the web.
PropertyGuts wrote:Hi Ashley – thanks for sharing the flow chart, excellent. I am looking at subdivision/splitting a 1400sqm block into 2 blocks in NSW. Just wondering – can you provide ballpark figures on length of time to complete the process you mention (minimum, average, maximum days) and ball park figures for surveyors costs. ThanksHi PropertyGuts,
Thanks for the kind comments. I'm glad that forum users are finding this a useful tool.
Unfortunately I don't have any subdivision experience in NSW so am not in a position to be able to give you a professional opinion here. From what I know from my experience in the industry, is that states follow fairly similar processes so that flowchart is probably not far off the mark.
In response to your question on timeframes- how long is a piece of string? It all comes down to the time waiting for council and the titles office to do their bit. I'll give you an example: Yarra Ranges (which is where we are based) quotes 60 days for planning permit applications. We've got a subdivision which has been sitting there for almost 12 months waiting for the planning permit to be issued.
However, mostly I'd expect 9-12 months for a land only subdivision (no building) start to finish if everything goes smoothly. Our surveying services for example offer plans sent within a week of field work so we do try to get all the work out asap to minimize subdivision time. I've heard of other local firms spending over a month doing drafting work. When you consider that there are multiple surveys needed for a subdivision this will add significant time.
Costing-wise this really does depend on so many factors:
– Are you building?
– Will you use an architect or building designer?
– How much legwork are you prepared to do yourself?
– Will you engage a private planner?
– What zone does the property reside in? What are the survey extents related to this?
– How many lots?
Again this is another "how long is a piece of string" question. At the absolute simplest, with all council fees and contributions, professional fees and having a basic structure designed for a 2-Lot subdivision without building; we would recommend a budget of ~$25k.
Survey fees are really quite interesting as the Association of Consulting Surveyors Victoria (ACSV) send out a recommended fee structure bi-annually. We stick to approx 60% of this as because we're a smaller firm we don't have as many overheads. Large firms will be hovering around the recommended fees.
The initial survey for town planning, known as the Feature and Level Survey with Site Analysis should be around $1900 + GST for a standard block with a 2-Lot subdivision with a high level of detail. There are some surveyors hovering around who do the survey for much less, but you will sacrifice the level of detail and will hence cause headaches for designers and be turned around in application. We've had customers come to us with surveys essentially needing to be redone because of the lack of detail, and then they've paid for the same thing twice. As is a good lesson in life- you get what you pay for.
The subdivision will be around $2800 + GST which will include subdivision design, correspondence with the titles office and the Title Re-Establishment Survey.
Hopefully this helps with your questions!
Cheers,
