1. You have a contract. It’s a long term lease and the mortgagee will probably step into the owenr’s shoes and collect the rents/profits. Having possession of the property should also give you some leverage to enforce your option contract.
2. Yes they can as you haven’t bought it until you exercise your option. Any landlord can refinance their property whilst you rent it can’t they?
3. Yes.
You have a fixed period lease of the property so you can/(must) occupy it, and stapled to that is an exclusive option to buy the house at a fixed price for a period into the future. You pay a fee upfront for the option -varies but around 2-4% of the price of the house possibly.
Meanwhile, part of each rental payment you make will be credited/deducted off the price of the house if you exercise your right to buy it and pay the owner out (normal contract of sale at that point). For this reason, payments are higher than normal rental payments.
Under the option you will be responsible for maintenance and for reimbursing the owner for rates and insurance.
The period of the lease is usually matched to the period for which the option is valid, say 5 or 6 years but it is entirely up for negotiation.
Pros IMHO:
You lock in a price today that you have to pay for the house later so you have certainty.
The option fee is usually deducted off the price if you exercise the option.
You occupy it and so don’t have to move, nor have a traditional landlord etc.
You control maintenance and can make sure the value of the property is preserved, or even enhanced if you do work on it before you buy it.
Bankrupts can secure a property whilst waiting till their bankruptcy period is discharged/concluded, (provided they have income etc).
When you qualify for a loan you can simply exercise the option and buy the house.
Usually you can renew the whole agreement for another term if you get to the end of your lease/option period.
It’s like a forced saving program to build up a deposit or synthetically pay off a house and enjoy living in it at the same time.
If the market value of the house goes up to mroe than the option price you collect the capital gain or sometimes split it with the owner depending.
Cons might be:
You need the option fee upfront.
If you choose not to exercise the option (either by defaulting on your payments and thereby invalidating it or just deciding not to buy) the option fee is non-refundable.
If the market doesn’t improve over the period of the lease and the value of the house is lower than the price under the option when you want to buy.
You can’t get a loan later on – although you could renew the agreement for another term, sell the option, do a deal with the owner to sell and split the profit etc.
I agree – they are Tier 1 and you will pay an enormous fee for it. Appropriately, because they are a huge ntaional law firm.
If you are buying commercial properties perhaps a firm in the realm of Minters is appropriate. If you are buying single family residential I am sure some forum posters can provide the names of lots of smaller specialist firms for conveyancing or propertry acquisition in Qld who won’t charge out their team at the rates of the bigger nationals.
At it’s peak the mines in Broken Hill employed about 9000 workers. The last Perilya mine is now down to 480 but guess what, the town’s still going. Hasn’t disappeared as one would think with all those jobs gone.
Still 22,000 people there approx., a decline of about 2000 over the last few years so yes some leave with the work but tourism is rapidly providing a new source of income. If it can entirely replace the economic benefit of all those workers I don’t know.
Bemax is opening a new processing plant in BH for its minerals sands projects at Menindee.
The grey nomad phenomenon also benefits Broken Hill, (you should see the Winnebagos!) just like lots of other places like Dubbo, another town on a transit route.
Lots of grey nomads on the Sydney-Adelaide run, the Melbourne – Port Augusta – Alice Springs run and the Queensland-Adelaide run. And about 400 semis a day on the Sydney- Adelaide-Perth run.
The Hill is also a regional headquarters for the Royal Flying Doctor Service.
Whether if it will be enough, or if some new dollars will emerge depends on whether if the Council or some other enterpising outfit tries to develop the town’s brand and tourism potential. It really is a unique place that could be marketed as the Outback on our doorstep.
It’s also central geographically to Brisbane/Sydney/Melbourne/Adelaide and the Alice so maybe it could leverage that advantage. Some smart cookie could turn it into Australia’s Las Vegas if you think aobut it……
Also, we always invested automatically 10% of our gross income and we never touch it, we never take on personal debt and we add a further 10% of our gross income to the minimum payment on our home mortgage so that it will be gone soon.
I have had annual household/personal budgets since I was 20 (quite a while ago) so I have always saved and yet had everything I ever wanted ie cars, overseas holidays, shares, managed funds, super, clothes, etc. all paid for by cash and rabid shopper comparison. We even had Baby Budget 1 and Baby Budget 2 and strategies to handle the 1 income times.
Then over the last few years we’ve bought pos cashflow IP’s (well, one’s vacant at the moment).
Just a suggestion if you are looking for a creative solution to your portfolio problem.
Why don’t you write to each of your current tenants asking them if they would like to buy the house they live in at fair market value, at a reasonable interest rate on vendor terms.
The repayments on a high yielding property will probably be lower than their current rent (favour 1), they get to become owners of the house and enjoy all of the associated wellbeing and economic benefits that come from that (favour 2) and they could use a really low deposit of $2K or so (favour 3), maybe even FHOG.
You will therefore have a similar cashflow to what you have now, plus cash deposits, plus NO MAINTENANCE hassles. I bet some will jump at it.
Maybe you could think about not relying on the market for capital gorwth but adding value to the property yourself. We have a +CF property in a regional town and spetn alittle on paint/carpet etc and added another $10K to the value after costs.
Yes maybe a panel of monitoring organisations could stratify the market into, for e.g., 2 bed houses, 3 bed houses, 4 bed houses, 5 bed houses, 1 bed flats, 2 bed flats, 3 bed flats, etc etc and run a normal statistical analysis for each strata, and the medians and other measures would be a bit more meaningful.
Inside each strata they can look at variances for different factors such as land size, zoning, age or condition of house, construction Bv/weatherboard and they should be able to come up with a regression analysis/lnear equation to hopefully predict the value of any property shouldn’t they?
Marc, you seem to be the most expert – how would Centrleink view the extended capital repmt situation if she sold the house?
E.g. she sells for Full Market Value (there you go Kay H) say $150K, 5% deposit = $7,500 then $7500K per annum for 19 years paid as monthly instalments? Or $15K pa for 9.5 years, whatever.
You don’t say if the house is near her current home (was it the neighbour’s house or a house somewhere else that the neighbour owned?) but couldn’t she move into the house she has inherited (if that’s the term) and immediately sell it, so no CGT becuase it’s her PPOR, and structure the payment for the house over 20 years plus a 5% deposit to pay the agent/legals ie 95% of the purchase price paid every year to her as monthly instalments over the next 19 years.
Then she moves back straight back into her current home and receives 19 years of a monthly income stream possibly tax free plus her pension? What a great gift from her neighbour to give her a comfortable retirement. Of course, all qualified accountants should comment as to how Centrelink would regard this but worth researching.
IMHO the agent is completely in the wrong – you are entitled to make any offer you like, the vendor is entitled to reject it. But, no emotions, it’s just business and the path of least resistance is best.
No point trying to re-educate or punish the agent – pyschobabble is ingrained sometimes. Just move on to the next house, next agent.
Just my $0.02, I agree with the comments made, mostly. Especially the strategies given to minimise the weekly cash drain.
We don’t know your investment strategy so it’s a little hard to tell what your goal was when you bought the flat but I gather (since it was pre-Steve) that you thought the negative cashflow would somehow be paid off in the future with a rise in the apartment’s value.
If this was the reason, guess what, that’s exactly what my first IP investment was based on so you’re not on your own there. It was before I read Steve’s books and educated myself more.
The first year our apartment was positvely geared (ie it put money into our pocket after tax) but now it is neutral-geared and will head into negative geared next year as the depreciation claims reduce.
Once I realised that forking out money every week may not be a good strategy and any possible capital gains was:
1. entirely speculative (even though there are many factors I identified in my research pre-sale to support excellent capital growth in this area)and
2. eroded by the amount of negative cash flow I’d have to sustain over the years and
3. you can’t re-invest negative cash flow and you can’t pay your bills with a paper capital gain, IF it happens
then I decided to lease-option it early next year just before it goes negative CF. This will put it back into positive cash flow and secure the potential for capital gain at the same time.
It’s one option you might like to research to see if it suits you.
I wouldn’t hold on to your flat and do nothing. The “buy, hold and pray” strategy is too risky and you could find your situation getting worse and worse over item if the falt’s value goes nowhere. But like me and everyone else, you don’t want to sell and take a loss – who would? So that’s why I am lease-optioning ours – I’ll make a profit.
Leebus,
I bought a property 1100 kms from home.
You need a TEAM to be your eyes and ears.
That is, a local solicitor/conveyancer, maybe a buyer’s agent, a builder to do a building report, a pest company to do the pest report, someone to take lots of photos inside and out from all angles including the adjoining properties and views from the property, plus your research on the market and area.
Ours is a beauty. You’ll find a way.
Thank you Julie, I appreciate the info. I’ve read those various ATO statements several times over other threads and I guess I’m pretty thick…can anyone use a numbers example as I am still working this out.
If I am “caught by all the criteria” it sounds like there is no CGT so the profit component of every wrap payment received over time is simply taxed at the going rate for the entity after deducting expenses etc – is that right?
So, am I declaring, say, the interest and profit component of the wrappees payment to me (use $200 out of a total payment to me of $1200 for 1 month) as income?
Then, am I deducting my interest expense (use $80 for that month) and all my other expenses (say $50) and the balance ($70) is what I pay tax on in that year?
Then, let’s say in year 3 the person cashes me out and pays out the balance owing on the property of $80K, (I bought it for $67K and they bought it from me for $86K) is that simply return of capital and not income? Is there any tax on the $80K payment?
Richard,
Does this mean the interest component of the payment stream is regarded as income each year, and then when the contract is paid out and title transfer takes place, then any CGT liability has to be paid for that tax year?
If anyone could show an example using numbers over say 3 years that would be great.
One of my dearest friends (who also happens to be a property valuer) is in Turkey right now. She’s been there many times and says it is the best part of Europe. I know she’ll be looking at the local prop market – we both can’t help it wherever we go.
When she returns in 4 weeks I’ll get her feedback about the market and if there is anything interesting I’ll post it.
Hi Everyone, congrats to all of you doing so well off the smokes. I gave up about 9 years ago and know what it’s like but now never feel like having a smoke, don’t even think about it.
Just in case you are interested, I have listened to a tape of a guy called Don Wolfe and he is someone who works on psychology, NLP, that sort of thing. He says, two powerful forces in your brain are your imagination and your will. But your imagination is far more powerful than your will. It always wins.
However, when people try to give up smoking they try to use their willpower, and it doesn’t face a chance compared to the imagination, which is conjuring up images of having a smoke, the smell etc. So we go and have a ciggie. Same thing with dieting. We try to use our will but during the day our mind will produce images of all those foods which made us put on the weight in the first place (for me, sweets).
So he says we will without doubt have success in giving up smoking if we use our imagination AND our willpower. How? He says you have to fill your mind with visions of being a non-smoker and once you have imagined that, your mind will see you as a non-smoker and stop triggering visions of you being a smoker.
That is, stick a photo of yourself, sans ciggie, up at your desk, in your bathroom etc. so you see an image of yourself as a person who does not have cigarettes. You have to say out loud “I’m a non-smoker, I don’t smoke” etc and make a point of spending a few minutes every now and again running a movie reel in your head of you in lots of different situations where cigarettes play no part.
Also, you have to DO what a non-smoker does if that’s what you want to be ie act like one, not like a smoker temporarily on sabbatical. So don’t even speak about cigarettes, (non-smokers don’t) don’t look at them, take no interest in them.
Put this all together and when your mind thinks you are a non-smoker you will be. Easier than willpower.
He also applies this principle to breaking through psychological barriers to investing, finance, success etc.
Anyhoo, good luck, you’re not smokers any more.
Cheers